'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

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Troubbble
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:35 am

LonelySoul wrote:We know based on statements he made in the past that, at least at certain points in history, he had simply not bothered to read the Peaks books. I seriously doubt he's read MLMT or the Access Guide or bothered to listen to the "Diane..." audio book. Likewise, it seems unlikely that he's read TSDOLP, TSHOTP and probably not TFD either.

This seems, in my opinion, mildly rude at best and downright assholeish at worst. All the people involved in writing these books definitely watched David's contributions, but David couldn't be bothered to read the contributions of his coworkers? Especially his own daughter or his co-creator and writing partner? What an asshole!

Add in other stuff like him saying that "the film is the talking" when responding to the fact that people want to ask him lots of questions about his movies, his propensity for super self-indulgent film directing methods and pseudo-mysterious persona and you have the makings of a grade-A douchebag.


I'll ignore the claims about his "super self-indulgent film directing methods" and simply say that I disagree about him being an asshole. I think it's quite charitable of him to allow people to create these works and profit off them, in spite of his clear disinterest. Were he actually to read Mark's books, I assume he would find them ridiculous--so in that context, I think everyone should just be happy he didn't put the kibosh on them altogether.

I bought both books to support Twin Peaks, and Mark...but let's be honest. It would be generous to call these books half-baked. Most of the writing is fan-fiction level at best.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:48 am

Methedrome wrote:I take Lynch's public statements about not reading the associated spin-off books much like I take comments from sports figures who claim to focus only on "one game at a time".

It's not true but makes for great comment.


That's possible too, but if that's the case, he should clear this up with his daughter because she was under the impression her Dad never read the Secret Diary.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby bowisneski » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:01 am

Troubbble wrote:
LonelySoul wrote:We know based on statements he made in the past that, at least at certain points in history, he had simply not bothered to read the Peaks books. I seriously doubt he's read MLMT or the Access Guide or bothered to listen to the "Diane..." audio book. Likewise, it seems unlikely that he's read TSDOLP, TSHOTP and probably not TFD either.

This seems, in my opinion, mildly rude at best and downright assholeish at worst. All the people involved in writing these books definitely watched David's contributions, but David couldn't be bothered to read the contributions of his coworkers? Especially his own daughter or his co-creator and writing partner? What an asshole!

Add in other stuff like him saying that "the film is the talking" when responding to the fact that people want to ask him lots of questions about his movies, his propensity for super self-indulgent film directing methods and pseudo-mysterious persona and you have the makings of a grade-A douchebag.


I'll ignore the claims about his "super self-indulgent film directing methods" and simply say that I disagree about him being an asshole. I think it's quite charitable of him to allow people to create these works and profit off them, in spite of his clear disinterest. Were he actually to read Mark's books, I assume he would find them ridiculous--so in that context, I think everyone should just be happy he didn't put the kibosh on them altogether.

I bought both books to support Twin Peaks, and Mark...but let's be honest. It would be generous to call these books half-baked. Most of the writing is fan-fiction level at best.


I think you could be correct when it comes to the tie in material of the 90's being viewable as charitable, but I think claiming Lynch is charitable for allowing the co-creator/writer, without whom the show and world wouldn't exist, to expand on the mythology in the way he views it is an insult. The show belongs to both of them and I think Lynch putting the kibosh on something Frost wanted to do and vice versa would be disservice to their partnership. Lynch and Frost each trusted each other to do their own thing. Whether or not Lynch thinks of things in the same way, the person who typed the script has these things in mind.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Terence » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:59 pm

Has anyone actually got this on the audiobook CD?

I find it hard to believe both Amazon.co.uk & Amazon.com don't have this in stock seeing as most if they did want the audiobook would get the digital version of it anyway..
I doubt it ever came in stock on the Amazon sites yet.

Seeing as i had the audiobook on while reading The Secret History id like to do it this way also for The Final Dossier.

With both of these books being made to be documents anyway & having the same actress doing the voice on both of the audiobooks i think its a fun way to go through them both formats at the same time.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Diane » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:05 pm

It doesn't bother me that Frost tried to correct the errors from the previous book. Also, it doesn't really bother me that much that the errors were there in the first place (in either book).

After all, the first book was supposedly compiled by Major Briggs and the second one written by Tamara Preston. How are we to know that these characters witnessed the events of seasons 1, 2 and 3 unfold as we saw them on the screen? Was every character in every scene?

I appreciate the Final Dossier. It didn't answer everything, but it made a good effort. After reading the book, I felt like re-watching.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:29 pm

My audiobook CD arrived from Amazon US today.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:31 pm

squealy wrote:Frost writes on page 45 that Annie was born in 1973, and then on page 49 that she came to Twin Peaks (which would have been in 1989) in her early twenties... so the criticism of The Secret History didn't sharpen up his attention to detail.


I can’t tell you how amused I was when I first read that birthdate. After all the “Audrey is too young for Cooper” controversy, we apparently have him hooking up with a 16-year-old Annie. :oops:
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:50 pm

mtwentz wrote:My cousin, who is like a sister to me, always wanted to be an actress and got the chance of a lifetime back when Beverly Hills 90210 was in its heydey when she got a guest starring role. I still to this day have not seen her episodes (or any other episode of that show which I don't think I could stand to watch). She also made two movies, one of which I did see, but the other of which I have not taken the time to see even though it's free on Amazon Prime :-).


WHY??????

This is just beyond comprehension for me. How can you not be interested in one of the most important moments in the life of someone who is like a sister to you? It puzzles me that one could be completely uninterested in seeing a loved-one in BH90210 (how cool and funny is that?!). To the point that you won't even invest a couple of hours!!!

But even if you ARE completely uninterested, isn't it very insulting and hurtful for your cousin to just don't give a fuck openly?

So I can relate completely to what Lonely Soul was saying: Although I love, love, love Lynch (I do not belong at all to those who say that Frost is anywhere near his importance or talent), I feel that Lynch can be a very arrogant prick at the same time. Or seriously lacking empathy.

Maybe this kind of reasoning and behavior is precisely what enables him to be a genius. But in the world of 'normal' people, I'd say this kind of behavior is socially unacceptable.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:07 pm

Manwith wrote:I always thought it was pretty clear Cooper changed history in Season 3. I know it's a bit ambiguous but the main fan argument that Cooper didn't seemed to be the Star Trek producers claim there are two timelines on Star Trek, and therefore we should consider Twin Peaks's time travel like Star Trek's...

It seemed to argue time wasn't changed you had to compare Twin Peaks to some other franchise's treatment of time travel, or something...

I know it's ambiguous but there isn't anything to suggest Star Trek rules apply...


The concept of the multiverse is a theory held by many prominent physicists, including Stephen Hawking. Look, this material is admittedly several country miles away from the Pilot or even FWWM conceptually, and it’s a fair critique to say that the franchise’s emotional resonance, and even the existing mythology prior to S3, has been watered down and tainted with overindulgence in more common/predictable sci-fi and fantasy concepts. But several detractors have seemingly made the argument that multiverses are solely the domain of Star Trek and Marvel Comics, and this annoys me. The multiverse isn’t a J. J. Abrams creation, it’s a widely respected and debated scientific hypothesis of which Mark Frost is certainly very aware.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:08 pm

Interesting to revisit this artwork that Pan Macmillan released back in May. It refers to a memoriam marking the five-year anniversary of Laura Palmer's passing in 1994. Did Frost change things late in the day? Or was this meant to be some alternate timeline stuff? It's not in the book or the pdf of the audiobook.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:23 pm

Agent Sam Stanley wrote:And why was Richard Horne's father listed as "unknown" in the birth certificate? I thought JJW was Audrey's first sexual relation. A few weeks later she's pregnant, wouldn't be obvious he's the father? Audrey would rather say to people she has no idea who the father is? Ok :roll:


I think you’re underestimating what an emotional, complex position this is for a young girl to be in. There are plenty of reasons a headstrong-yet-vulnerable girl like Audrey might be too embarrassed, prideful, fearful of rejection, &c. to reveal the father, especially given the odd circumstances (her dad’s jet-setting protégée, after a contentious courting process, knocks her up then darts off to South America). It’s even possible that she reached out to JJW with the info and wasn’t happy with his response. The only person who knew she had sex with JJW was Pete, who died a couple of days after and presumably didn’t tell anyone.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Mace » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:41 pm

The last 5 words of TFD (written by Tamara Preston) are...
Spoiler:
”We mustn’t give up. Ever.”

Hence, tomorrow pressed on. Clever.
Last edited by Mace on Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:45 pm

Manwith wrote:Frost implies the world will end if Judy and Bob meet, so I don't think she's been harboring Sarah until recently, the frog has been dormant.


The world will end if Judy and Ba’al meet, right? I never got the sense that Bob was Ba’al/Beelzebub/the devil. In the old show/FWWM, he’s a lesser demon who is accountable to MfAP/Mike. In the new show, he’s one of dozens, perhaps hundreds, of eggs Judy spawns — one of her many children, not her equal.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:52 pm

I thought maybe based on the retcon it was possible Audrey never met JJW. Whether the timing of the bank vault explosion and Ben wanting to sell Ghostwood (when he didn't own it at the end of the original series) was an intentional retcon or just a lapse in memory, it's hard to know what other stories might have also been retconned in Frost's mind. If Ben owned Ghostwood, then was he still in the same financial straits? I thought the whole reason JJW came to Twin Peaks was because he had prospects of possibly taking over Ben's business that was in some serious trouble. If this was no longer the case based on the retcon, then maybe JJW and Audrey never met.

I have the same confusion about Doc Hayward leaving town and the Haywards divorcing. It seemed like Doc was well aware about the secret of Donna's paternity in the original series, so this seems like a pretty dramatic reaction to what happened. Did Frost also retcon Doc knowing about Ben being Donna's father, or did he retcon it so that Ben and Eileen were still having an affair? Once things get retconned, it's hard to know what other storylines have been affected that aren't addressed in the book.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:12 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Manwith wrote:I always thought it was pretty clear Cooper changed history in Season 3. I know it's a bit ambiguous but the main fan argument that Cooper didn't seemed to be the Star Trek producers claim there are two timelines on Star Trek, and therefore we should consider Twin Peaks's time travel like Star Trek's...

It seemed to argue time wasn't changed you had to compare Twin Peaks to some other franchise's treatment of time travel, or something...

I know it's ambiguous but there isn't anything to suggest Star Trek rules apply...


The concept of the multiverse is a theory held by many prominent physicists, including Stephen Hawking. Look, this material is admittedly several country miles away from the Pilot or even FWWM conceptually, and it’s a fair critique to say that the franchise’s emotional resonance, and even the existing mythology prior to S3, has been watered down and tainted with overindulgence in more common/predictable sci-fi and fantasy concepts. But several detractors have seemingly made the argument that multiverses are solely the domain of Star Trek and Marvel Comics, and this annoys me. The multiverse isn’t a J. J. Abrams creation, it’s a widely respected and debated scientific hypothesis of which Mark Frost is certainly very aware.


I don't think the multiverse theory has anything to do with time travel...

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