'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

[Rudagger]

That's an interesting watershed, "essential". I can think of maybe five hours total that are "essential". Mill plot, not essential. One Eyed Jack, not essential. Log Lady, not essential. Donna &co's investigations at Jacoby's first and Harold's later, not essential. Bobby and Shelly, and Leo, and Hank, and Norma and Ed and Nadine, not essential.
Going further with this, we're talking about a work of fiction, of course nothing is essential.

My point is mostly that, in my experience, 'expanded universe' media tends to be either ignored, or contradicted almost immediately. So, I guess since Frost wrote it there's less chance of that happening (given that the book was written post-shooting but pre-editing).

[AXX°N N.]

That's an interesting watershed, "essential". I can think of maybe five hours total that are "essential". Mill plot, not essential. One Eyed Jack, not essential. Log Lady, not essential. Donna &co's investigations at Jacoby's first and Harold's later, not essential. Bobby and Shelly, and Leo, and Hank, and Norma and Ed and Nadine, not essential.
Going further with this, we're talking about a work of fiction, of course nothing is essential.

Since October, I've had the pleasure of joining delightful discussions on:
- the ring being tied to rest knowledge and great ruin, how this goes back to Laura and Teresa, and to owls as classic symbols of knowledge
- what it means for Gordon to have been Nixon's close pal and having effectively taken over Windom's role wrt Blue Book matters.
- recursions. Opposition of "lodges" throughout human history and how it maybe possibly explains why the locals used names lifted out of an obscure European occult treatise. Spirits in the wood. Somewhere, there are giants.
- acknowledging that there is a worldwide awareness of supernatural occurrences, with both governments and private parties taking an interest in them
- scope and limits of presenting alternative versions of known events with fluctuating details and equal outcomes
- popping the biggest bottle because Audrey's irredeemable support of her father is the only one that got retconned fair and square
- Frank what the fuck
- Doug as a distant Coop parallel
- the finesse of seamlessly integrating Garland's enlightened s2 characterization with his s1 position as Bobby's dysfunctional father.
- Moonchild theories
And so much more, beside, y'know, having fun thinking about Doug and Garland's odd friendship, Sam and Margaret and their STRONG FOREARMS, Tamara and Albert and their hopeless search for a world that makes sense.
Looks enhancing enough to me, but to each their own.

Wonderfully said and I agree very much. Not to mention that, disregarding all that, it actually taught me a lot of real-world things, both facts, conspiracies, and conspiracies verging what I feel is so obviously onto near-fact! I mean, [redacted], and I had NO idea it was connected in any way to Nagasaki and Hiroshima! [Redacted], it really expanded my feel for the place -- the atmosphere of its history, ancient and recent, dark tidings and illicit actions, and what may lurk underneath. Which is exactly a component I loved about the series itself. In my mind, that means it functioned in the same vein as the show completely.

[guildnavigator]

I loved the first book, it made me wonder, made me feel emotional about certain characters etc.

I feel that pointing out and getting hung up on canonical inconsistencies in twin peaks would be to miss the point, it's like pointing out all of the imperfectly inflected or improvised notes in a jazz solo and describing those things as "mistakes" when they are part of a bigger beautiful thing when you take a step back.

The original series wasn't extremely canonical and sequentially accurate, there are "mistakes" and anomalies all over the place.

[euclid]

I loved the first book, it made me wonder, made me feel emotional about certain characters etc.

I feel that pointing out and getting hung up on canonical inconsistencies in twin peaks would be to miss the point, it's like pointing out all of the imperfectly inflected or improvised notes in a jazz solo and describing those things as "mistakes" when they are part of a bigger beautiful thing when you take a step back.

The original series wasn't extremely canonical and sequentially accurate, there are "mistakes" and anomalies all over the place.

Well said, couldn't agree more.

[Mistertom]

What's funny to me about these people who complain about TSHOTP and all of the inconsistencies.. I just have a hard time believing they would be so upset if David lynch wrote the book. I can see it now proclamations of there being a bigger picture and we just have to wait to see how it all fits together , it's lynch there must be some point to it all , he's so creative the way he creates mysteries for us !

I just feel like Mark frost doesn't get nearly enough credit and there for he's an easy target to get shit on when it comes to this kind of stuff. Lynch gets time to breathe and flesh out his ideas , frost apparently has to explain it all immediately? Give me a break.

How about this , we have new twin peaks material to take in , analyze and enjoy. Some people just NEED something to bitch about , like it makes themselves feel better or more important. Newsflash , we are all on this strange ride together , experiencing it all for the first time together. Let's wait till it's over before jumping to such harsh conclusions .

I for one think TSHOTP is a beautiful book, full of really fun and interesting ideas. I became more intrigued with the town of twin peaks and what possible powers it holds after reading. Sure I would consider myself a new fan having only started watching 5 years ago and have done just one re watch per year .. so maybe it doesn't bother me as much, but I just don't see the point in wasting energy being so upset about a book, one we don't even know the clear meaning of yet.

Sorry rant over

[Agent Earle]

How about this , we have new twin peaks material to take in , analyze and enjoy. Some people just NEED something to bitch about , like it makes themselves feel better or more important. Newsflash , we are all on this strange ride together , experiencing it all for the first time together. Let's wait till it's over before jumping to such harsh conclusions .

We are analyzing it - that's how all these inconsistencies (or "inconsistencies") got noticed. Does it make those dissatisfied with them less true fans? I wouldn't say so, maybe just more meticulous. Hey, if it turns out the changes of what was shown in the original series are part of some elaborate Frost's narrative plan or scheme, more power to him. If it doesn't, however, and if he expects us to swallow his - in that case - retcons at face value, well, some of us simply aren't gonna. Enjoy the ride!

[Dalai Cooper]

What's funny to me about these people who complain about TSHOTP and all of the inconsistencies.. I just have a hard time believing they would be so upset if David lynch wrote the book. I can see it now proclamations of there being a bigger picture and we just have to wait to see how it all fits together , it's lynch there must be some point to it all , he's so creative the way he creates mysteries for us !

I just feel like Mark frost doesn't get nearly enough credit and there for he's an easy target to get shit on when it comes to this kind of stuff. Lynch gets time to breathe and flesh out his ideas , frost apparently has to explain it all immediately? Give me a break.

How about this , we have new twin peaks material to take in , analyze and enjoy. Some people just NEED something to bitch about , like it makes themselves feel better or more important. Newsflash , we are all on this strange ride together , experiencing it all for the first time together. Let's wait till it's over before jumping to such harsh conclusions .

I for one think TSHOTP is a beautiful book, full of really fun and interesting ideas. I became more intrigued with the town of twin peaks and what possible powers it holds after reading. Sure I would consider myself a new fan having only started watching 5 years ago and have done just one re watch per year .. so maybe it doesn't bother me as much, but I just don't see the point in wasting energy being so upset about a book, one we don't even know the clear meaning of yet.

Sorry rant over

It's worth remembering that in fact a large number of fans DID get incredibly annoyed when lynch went back and used a revisionist retelling of already-established events to explore the things he wanted to explore.

Also, aside from the initial flurry of fanboy shitfits (which were going full throttle before the book was even published, remember) I don't get the impression most of the naysayers are dismissing a 400-page book based on a few pages' worth of breaks with continuity; it just seems like they don't find the subject matter compelling or rewarding, which is fair enough.

[laughingpinecone]

How about this , we have new twin peaks material to take in , analyze and enjoy. Some people just NEED something to bitch about , like it makes themselves feel better or more important. Newsflash , we are all on this strange ride together , experiencing it all for the first time together. Let's wait till it's over before jumping to such harsh conclusions .

We are analyzing it - that's how all these inconsistencies (or "inconsistencies") got noticed. Does it make those dissatisfied with them less true fans? I wouldn't say so, maybe just more meticulous. Hey, if it turns out the changes of what was shown in the original series are part of some elaborate Frost's narrative plan or scheme, more power to him. If it doesn't, however, and if he expects us to swallow his - in that case - retcons at face value, well, some of us simply aren't gonna. Enjoy the ride!

IMG_20170412_152843.jpg (298.49 KiB) Viewed 8588 times

(Danielewski, House of Leaves. I wanted to link to a Magritte or some such but fate and coincidence figure largely in our lives etc etc and found this perfect quote on my lap instead)

[Mistertom]

How about this , we have new twin peaks material to take in , analyze and enjoy. Some people just NEED something to bitch about , like it makes themselves feel better or more important. Newsflash , we are all on this strange ride together , experiencing it all for the first time together. Let's wait till it's over before jumping to such harsh conclusions .

We are analyzing it - that's how all these inconsistencies (or "inconsistencies") got noticed. Does it make those dissatisfied with them less true fans? I wouldn't say so, maybe just more meticulous. Hey, if it turns out the changes of what was shown in the original series are part of some elaborate Frost's narrative plan or scheme, more power to him. If it doesn't, however, and if he expects us to swallow his - in that case - retcons at face value, well, some of us simply aren't gonna. Enjoy the ride!

Totally agree , I don't think they are less true fans, I would never say that about any one who's a fan of anything It's not my place to be that judge. If that's how my post came across I apologize. I'm not here to diminish anyone's fandom of the series. Also if it all comes to an end and they are not explained , then I too will be upset with the changes from the book, all I'm saying is let's just wait and see. We allow and give David lynch tons of creative freedom with the hope that it'll all make some sense once the full picture is revealed, lets give Mark frost the same courtesy. After all we wouldn't even have twin peaks if it weren't for the two of them, Mark included.

Appreciate the dialogue on this board , come here every day in anticipation of the new series ! I don't really know any twin peaks fans in my every day life so this is a great outlet for me to see how everyone is feeling and reacting . It's a great treat to have these boards !

[Agent Earle]

How about this , we have new twin peaks material to take in , analyze and enjoy. Some people just NEED something to bitch about , like it makes themselves feel better or more important. Newsflash , we are all on this strange ride together , experiencing it all for the first time together. Let's wait till it's over before jumping to such harsh conclusions .

We are analyzing it - that's how all these inconsistencies (or "inconsistencies") got noticed. Does it make those dissatisfied with them less true fans? I wouldn't say so, maybe just more meticulous. Hey, if it turns out the changes of what was shown in the original series are part of some elaborate Frost's narrative plan or scheme, more power to him. If it doesn't, however, and if he expects us to swallow his - in that case - retcons at face value, well, some of us simply aren't gonna. Enjoy the ride!

Totally agree , I don't think they are less true fans, I would never say that about any one who's a fan of anything It's not my place to be that judge. If that's how my post came across I apologize. I'm not here to diminish anyone's fandom of the series. Also if it all comes to an end and they are not explained , then I too will be upset with the changes from the book, all I'm saying is let's just wait and see. We allow and give David lynch tons of creative freedom with the hope that it'll all make some sense once the full picture is revealed, lets give Mark frost the same courtesy. After all we wouldn't even have twin peaks if it weren't for the two of them, Mark included.

Appreciate the dialogue on this board , come here every day in anticipation of the new series ! I don't really know any twin peaks fans in my every day life so this is a great outlet for me to see how everyone is feeling and reacting . It's a great treat to have these boards !

Don't worry, your post was perfectly O.K., meaning I understood it in exactly the way you say it was meant to be understood. Other than that, I agree with what you just said - there are two TP creators and neither should be given the short shrift when debating "their" universe and all it encompasses.

[Dalai Cooper]

Agree that frost's input is too often overlooked (not really on this forum, tbf), which is why I find the notion of tshotp as frost's fwwm so appealing; I'm glad he swerved in a surprising and infuriating direction, playing to his strengths and preoccupations. As I said above, I like the book a lot but I can't say I was overjoyed at first to see that so much space was given to what seemed to me to be overplayed and uninteresting conspiracy lore (Roswell especially) - turns out "pure heroin frost" takes some metabolising also!

[underthefan]

What's funny to me about these people who complain about TSHOTP and all of the inconsistencies.. I just have a hard time believing they would be so upset if David lynch wrote the book. I can see it now proclamations of there being a bigger picture and we just have to wait to see how it all fits together , it's lynch there must be some point to it all , he's so creative the way he creates mysteries for us !

I just feel like Mark frost doesn't get nearly enough credit and there for he's an easy target to get shit on when it comes to this kind of stuff. Lynch gets time to breathe and flesh out his ideas , frost apparently has to explain it all immediately? Give me a break.

How about this , we have new twin peaks material to take in , analyze and enjoy. Some people just NEED something to bitch about , like it makes themselves feel better or more important. Newsflash , we are all on this strange ride together , experiencing it all for the first time together. Let's wait till it's over before jumping to such harsh conclusions .

I for one think TSHOTP is a beautiful book, full of really fun and interesting ideas. I became more intrigued with the town of twin peaks and what possible powers it holds after reading. Sure I would consider myself a new fan having only started watching 5 years ago and have done just one re watch per year .. so maybe it doesn't bother me as much, but I just don't see the point in wasting energy being so upset about a book, one we don't even know the clear meaning of yet.

Sorry rant over

It's worth remembering that in fact a large number of fans DID get incredibly annoyed when lynch went back and used a revisionist retelling of already-established events to explore the things he wanted to explore.

Also, aside from the initial flurry of fanboy shitfits (which were going full throttle before the book was even published, remember) I don't get the impression most of the naysayers are dismissing a 400-page book based on a few pages' worth of breaks with continuity; it just seems like they don't find the subject matter compelling or rewarding, which is fair enough.

Exactly! I am not so much bothered by the inconsistencies, and I do believe some of them are intentional (although some of them, like Laura being 18, for example, I'm pretty sure are simply author's mistakes), but I just didn't think all the conspiracy/UFO/Nixon stuff was particularly interesting, revelatory, or rewarding. It has been done many, many times already and dare I say, better, much better. In the book, it just feels plodding, meandering, and tedious. There was simply nothing about it that was thrilling or exciting to me, or that expanded the world of TP in any satisfactory way. For me, it just made the whole book mediocre and pedestrian. And some of the things, like Nixon wearing Owl Cave Ring, I found quite silly and laughable, and it quickly took me out of the story. So, forgive me for not being thrilled about The Final Dossier. I am certainly going to read it, out of respect for Frost and my interest in his writing (like "The List of Seven" which I liked more), but like with TSHOP, I will be renting it from LA Public Library and not buying it. I am glad there are those of you who enjoy it, but there is no need to take our criticism or dislike as a personal affront to Mark Frost.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Exactly! I am not so much bothered by the inconsistencies, and I do believe some of them are intentional (although some of them, like Laura being 18, for example, I'm pretty sure are simply author's mistakes),

I actually assumed this was a very intentional retcon in order to paint Jacoby as less of a creep. The book seems interested in whitewashing Jacoby and portraying him as sort of a kooky but sympathetic shaman character.

[underthefan]

Exactly! I am not so much bothered by the inconsistencies, and I do believe some of them are intentional (although some of them, like Laura being 18, for example, I'm pretty sure are simply author's mistakes),

I actually assumed this was a very intentional retcon in order to paint Jacoby as less of a creep. The book seems interested in whitewashing Jacoby and portraying him as sort of a kooky but sympathetic shaman character.

Yeah, you could be right, Reindeer. The series did that at times as well, but the scene from The Missing Pieces really brings it home who Jacoby was.

[raltenbach]

I figured Laura lied about her age to Jacoby all that time to keep her parents from finding out her visits with him. Average kids lie about their age to buy booze, but Laura lies to seek therapy. That thought makes me incredibly sad. Another case of her life being so out of control and her path being such a dark and tragic one.