'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
Agent Sam Stanley
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:04 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:46 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I think you’re underestimating what an emotional, complex position this is for a young girl to be in. There are plenty of reasons a headstrong-yet-vulnerable girl like Audrey might be too embarrassed, prideful, fearful of rejection, &c. to reveal the father, especially given the odd circumstances (her dad’s jet-setting protégée, after a contentious courting process, knocks her up then darts off to South America). It’s even possible that she reached out to JJW with the info and wasn’t happy with his response. The only person who knew she had sex with JJW was Pete, who died a couple of days after and presumably didn’t tell anyone.


Sorry but I don't buy it. JJW had a lot of consideration for Ben Horne and showed to be in love with Audrey. I really don't think he would turn his back to the fact that she was pregnant with his child. That seemed like a lame attempt to erase JJW from the story, which is odd, since even Evelyn and Malcolm were addressed to some extent.
Anyway, that whole pregnancy plot was very odd (and IMO a little bit of a stretch) and TFD seemed like a good oportunity to explain things properly. Too bad Frost blew it.
Fanedits: Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me: Extended Blue Rose Cut / Blair Witch 2: Recut / Sinister: Recut

Please sign my petition for the release of the Director's Cut of Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2
User avatar
LonelySoul
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:00 am
Contact:

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby LonelySoul » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:32 am

Troubbble wrote:
LonelySoul wrote:We know based on statements he made in the past that, at least at certain points in history, he had simply not bothered to read the Peaks books. I seriously doubt he's read MLMT or the Access Guide or bothered to listen to the "Diane..." audio book. Likewise, it seems unlikely that he's read TSDOLP, TSHOTP and probably not TFD either.

This seems, in my opinion, mildly rude at best and downright assholeish at worst. All the people involved in writing these books definitely watched David's contributions, but David couldn't be bothered to read the contributions of his coworkers? Especially his own daughter or his co-creator and writing partner? What an asshole!

Add in other stuff like him saying that "the film is the talking" when responding to the fact that people want to ask him lots of questions about his movies, his propensity for super self-indulgent film directing methods and pseudo-mysterious persona and you have the makings of a grade-A douchebag.


I'll ignore the claims about his "super self-indulgent film directing methods" and simply say that I disagree about him being an asshole. I think it's quite charitable of him to allow people to create these works and profit off them, in spite of his clear disinterest. Were he actually to read Mark's books, I assume he would find them ridiculous--so in that context, I think everyone should just be happy he didn't put the kibosh on them altogether.

I bought both books to support Twin Peaks, and Mark...but let's be honest. It would be generous to call these books half-baked. Most of the writing is fan-fiction level at best.


Oh, man. This just makes Lynch look even more douchey and pretentious if what you're saying is actually his true outlook.

"Oh - thank you so much, David, for tolerating and allowing me to contribute this book to the universe I helped create/I participated in building. So charitable of you. All hail David Lynch!"

Give me a break.
Last edited by LonelySoul on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Come hang out at http://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks. I'm /u/iswitt, one of the moderators.
User avatar
AgentEcho
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:57 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:37 am

dishinthepercolator wrote:Reading the Annie section made me so pissed...that they didn’t include any of it in S3! Would have been such a killer way to end one of the episodes.


I have trouble imagining it working in the show as well as it worked in TFD. The exposition of her repeating the answer over and over again once a year could easily be a lot clunkier in cinematic forum. You'd probably have to have some character explain all the pertinent details, like how she says the same thing every year on the anniversary of the black lodge The way it appears in TFD, it flows nicely with TP's ongoing investigative notes, and the exposition is eloquent and natural. I'm pretty happy with it appearing in TFD and I think it's the highlight of the book.
rocketsan22
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:30 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby rocketsan22 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:26 pm

Twitter rumour that the black pages reveal stuff if you rub them with lemon juice????

I know you can see Bob, hobo and Sarah Palmer on last black page

EDIT - sounds like the lemon juice thing is someone's attempt at humour...
User avatar
Henrys Hair
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:28 am
Contact:

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Henrys Hair » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:15 pm

rocketsan22 wrote:Twitter rumour that the black pages reveal stuff if you rub them with lemon juice????

I know you can see Bob, hobo and Sarah Palmer on last black page

EDIT - sounds like the lemon juice thing is someone's attempt at humour...


I thought I saw The Jumping Man rather than Sarah Palmer, but on a second look I'm wondering if it's the Sarah Palmer/Jumping Man merged image from the series. I tried the three Jerry Horne registered websites but no joy there - two domains are up for sale, the third's a site for hot air balloons.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 1668
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:36 pm

I like the merchandising - some more than others, and some parts of the Dossier more than others - but Lynch has always marched to the beat of his own drummer. This is not some shocking new development re: how he handles the tie-ins, it's been around decades.

Suffice to say: Jowday/Judy was discussed by Lynch and Frost and is a key part of both show and book. The Secret Diary's depiction of Laura was essential to Sheryl Lee for FWWM, and the film very much reflects that vision of Laura. The mythos and ideas are there, they're just presented differently.

We'll probably never know how much Lynch actually was involved in interpreting these mythos as text vs. imagery and sensation, because he doesn't like to talk about it. I also have my doubts Lynch never looked at the diary, despite his daughter's claims. But whether or not Lynch did or didn't look at this stuff, it's still linked to in his work on the show. I don't see the point of re-litigating it all now and acting shocked and appalled. It is what it is. He is who he is. That's never going to change, and his collaborators don't seem to mind. Let it be.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 1668
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:40 pm

Xavi wrote:Take for example the 1956 girl, who has been identified in the book as Sarah. This ruins (almost) the horrifying undercurrent in that mystique intercourse scene between Diane and Dale. The score by the Platters "My Prayer" creates a gut feeling that this event somehow is being connected to that innocent boy and girl, that were engaged in their first kiss and all what happened thereafter, instigated by the radio and the frog-moth, that crept inside.


Literally everyone guessed that was Sarah. And I think anyone assuming Lynch doesn't know it's her and didn't sign off on this is fooling themselves. Of course he knows and okays it. Frost isn't going rogue on something like that.

I think confirming that it is Sarah only heightens the effect of that violation of innocence, and the undercurrent of the use of the song and subsequent Diane/Dale scenes. It is the same kind of alienation and corruption as what was done to her.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 1668
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:42 pm

Agent Earle wrote:So, basically, sloppiness and retconning all around. SIGH. So much for the "it's all intentional" theory, which circulated around the publication of TSHOTP.


TP official merchandising has been sloppy on continuity since 1990.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
cowwithfivelegs
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:33 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby cowwithfivelegs » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:01 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Tammy implies that the boiler room was the true location of the coordinates the Double was seeking (unclear how she knows this).


Another error.
Mulberryspark
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 11:40 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Mulberryspark » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:47 pm

I can understand people being bothered by Lynch not reading The Secret History or The Final Dossier, but I will never get The Secret Diary. It's written by his daughter, and with the amount of sexual stuff in it, it would be an incredibly awkward read for him.

also, Lynch & Frost, if I remember correctly, picked her to write it. This wasn't something that was done behind Lynch's back.
User avatar
SpookyDollhouse
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:22 pm
Contact:

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:40 pm

I get Frost self-insert vibes from the Jacoby section. That's all I'm gonna say about that. :lol:

Otherwise, I'm almost done and it's a much more interesting read than the other book.
Agent Earle
Posts: 699
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:38 am

N. Needleman wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:So, basically, sloppiness and retconning all around. SIGH. So much for the "it's all intentional" theory, which circulated around the publication of TSHOTP.


TP official merchandising has been sloppy on continuity since 1990.


That doesn't mean I have to be content if I see they hadn't mended their ways. Particularly since the tie-in material comes directly from one of the original creators, something which wasn't the case back in the day.
User avatar
Xavi
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:23 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:54 am

N. Needleman wrote:
Xavi wrote:Take for example the 1956 girl, who has been identified in the book as Sarah. This ruins (almost) the horrifying undercurrent in that mystique intercourse scene between Diane and Dale. The score by the Platters "My Prayer" creates a gut feeling that this event somehow is being connected to that innocent boy and girl, that were engaged in their first kiss and all what happened thereafter, instigated by the radio and the frog-moth, that crept inside.


Literally everyone guessed that was Sarah. And I think anyone assuming Lynch doesn't know it's her and didn't sign off on this is fooling themselves. Of course he knows and okays it. Frost isn't going rogue on something like that.

I think confirming that it is Sarah only heightens the effect of that violation of innocence, and the undercurrent of the use of the song and subsequent Diane/Dale scenes. It is the same kind of alienation and corruption as what was done to her.


I strongly disagree with all you write. First off, as long as "we" could not be absolutely sure about the 1956 girl's identity, it would imply that that girl good be anybody, not even excluding Diane. This gives the Dale Diane love scene an enormous tension, a huge charge. It is this tension that creates the similarity with the Tracey and Sam love scene; something might appear in the glass box, and so it happened.

IMO TFD wipes away that suspense, ruins the suggestion that something inside both Diane and Dale might cross over, that something horrible might occur.

BTW, I don't think the Diane Dale love scene has anything to do with losing innocence, albeit the convergence of two opposite forces; Love and Fear.
User avatar
laughingpinecone
Posts: 677
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:45 am
Location: D'ni
Contact:

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby laughingpinecone » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:41 am

I don't like it either, not one bit, but at least the connection via My Prayer is still there. It's not as literal as "that frocust is literally in the room" but there is still something there, and we're invited to wonder what.

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I think you’re underestimating what an emotional, complex position this is for a young girl to be in. There are plenty of reasons a headstrong-yet-vulnerable girl like Audrey might be too embarrassed, prideful, fearful of rejection, &c. to reveal the father, especially given the odd circumstances (her dad’s jet-setting protégée, after a contentious courting process, knocks her up then darts off to South America). It’s even possible that she reached out to JJW with the info and wasn’t happy with his response. The only person who knew she had sex with JJW was Pete, who died a couple of days after and presumably didn’t tell anyone.


Agreed & raise you one more: a key aspect of Audrey was always her lack of strong, intimate emotional connections. The lonely girl who grew up observing people from behind holes in the walls etc. I used to think she probably woke up too late to decide whether to keep the baby and suffered her teen pregnancy, but once I heard her story, it is not unthinkable, imho, that she would cling to the chance of getting to develop one such connection by default as a mother. So there could also be an aspect of "/I/ made this, he's mine, fuck you", in a way.
(And even though it turned out horribly, I'm glad the Nineties were happier for her than I would've imagined)

ETA I don't think I've expressed my general opinion on the book. It's "audiophile jazz lover Albert was worth the admission ticket alone, and then there's 160 more pages. Incredible" :mrgreen:
] The gathered are known by their faces of stone.
User avatar
p-air
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:36 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby p-air » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:20 am

Couple of things..

Until reading this book I hadn’t noticed the connection between Cooper checking himself out of the hospital in Part 16 of The Return, and also checking himself out of the hospital in Episode 8 of the original. Here Frost has evil Cooper checking himself out of the hospital again after the events of Episode 29. Great insight into Cooper’s character.

I also hadn’t noticed the line “what year is it?” being a reiteration of something Jeffries had said in The Missing Pieces.

Leland’s line “find Laura” in The Return now fits the new alternate events described.

Return to “Books”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests