Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

General discussion on Twin Peaks not related to the series, film, books, music, photos, or collectors merchandise.

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Jonah
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by Jonah »

I think as a term supernatural has a tendency to be looked down upon. The generally considered opinion that if something is supernatural it must automatically be of lesser quality - subpar or words like "cheap" and "generic" - as opposed to something that is set in the natural world. This might be why Frost winced at the term. But it simply means something that is not understood by current science/laws of nature. It is not - and should not be - indicative of quality.

I think that may be the main issue here with people who have a hard time considering Twin Peaks to be supernatural. First of all, I want to clarify - despite me defending the term, I'm actually not a fan of supernatural stories generally, but not because I think its a lesser thing, just for example I prefer more grounded horror/thriller stories usually. And I've never been a fan of "The X-FIles" or shows like that. But it's not necessarily true that supernatural means lesser, cheaper quality, and I think that notion is the first thing we need to dispense of.

Remember too "Twin Peaks" is also a soap opera (as declared by Lynch or a soap opera parody - which Lynch disagrees with) and also has much of its elements. So it was already dipping its toes in a world of schlock even without the supernatural elements - soap operas are often considered the lowest of the low, yet Lynch himself has insisted it is a soap opera, not a parody of one. (He always intended "Invitation To Love" to be a loving homage, not a parody/dismissal of them, which is why he probably got rid of that element once the clips became increasingly satirical.) Many detective stories were also often considered to be "dime store trash" - yes, Raymond Chandler and others might have elevated them, as too did adaptations like "The Big Sleep" starring Humphrey Bogart, but many were still considered to be lower quality literature - yet TP happily revels in those hardboiled trappings too, at times lifting Coop out of them and also bestowing him with a lot of Eastern wisdom, heavily overlaid as whimsy. Let's not forget - Twin Peaks (as much as some of us may have it on a pedestal) could also be very silly, even subpar at times: the middle stretch of Season 2, and some of the plotting around the lodges, the UFO talk, Briggs going missing in the woods, the special effects - don't get me wrong, I love all of it, but some of that comes across as quite cheap and silly, perhaps even less polished than something like The X-FIles to some viewers. And, despite Lynch hating Season 2, which led me to expect a more serious, gritty revival, I was surprised to find The Return leaned a lot into these elements and could be very silly at times, even intentionally.

Supernatural, again, just refers to something that can't be understood by current science/laws of nature. It's not necessarily a cheap horror movie with bad effects and cringey acting. The Henry James novella "Turn of the Screw" is supernatural, as is Bram Stoker's "Dracula", both classics. Another example is "Rosemary's Baby", the novel and movie of which are both modern classics (love Ira Levin, who actually didn't venture into the supernatural otherwise, preferring either thrillers or sci-fi). Countless more examples of supernatural movies and novels that aren't considered subpar. Probably better examples. Those are just a few. Yes, a lot of supernatural movies and novels may indeed be schlocky, cheap, even trash. But that doesn't mean all are - and I think it's a shame the term is so aligned with perceived quality. I think we - and Frost - need to try to separate that bias in order to discuss Twin Peaks being supernatural.

To try the answer your question more, I suppose I would say the difference between Twin Peaks and another supernatural show might be in its approach. Another show might be more concerned with exploring the supernatural in a more overt way and earlier on, or delve more into its genre trappings (either in a tongue-in-cheek way or a more serious way). Whereas I think the supernatural is something that encroaches upon Twin Peaks - both the town and the show itself. I find it interesting how it begins more in the natural world - or a quirky depiction of a natural town with oddball characters - and slowly becomes more supernatural, perhaps as the lodges begin to exert their presence more on the town. That which is hidden/on the edges slowly becomes more prominent within the characters and the setting, seeping into both. That is something I find intriguing and wish the show had been given longer to explore. Twin Peaks would still be quirky - and, yes, surreal - even if it was not supernatural, in its depictions of the town, the characters, Lynch's framing, etc., but it is still quirky and surreal - perhaps more so - even when it becomes supernatural.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by mtwentz »

Taking the elements of the Dugpas and the Tulpas- I would consider those more mythological than supernatural. Whereas ghosts and spirits from a Western sense would be supernatural.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by JackwithOneEye »

Stavrogyn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:37 pm I love it when discussions turn toward language. Some very interesting notions about the term supernatural here!
Indeed, considering how Lynch's earliest work 'The Alphabet' deals with the notion that imagery and raw thoughts enter the brain, but language is imposed upon us in early childhood development to instantly translate thoughts into words, and hence limits us in some ways.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by Soolsma »

Abandon all logic! Long live irrationality!

Did you know that for certain standardized tests that measure creative thinking, 3 year old kids often score genius levels. As they become older and more educated and start making more logical choices, their creative capacity becomes impaired. A friend of mine once told me that the atmosphere surrounding Lynch screams this refusal to ''grow up'', to my confusion. I think I might understand him more now.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by JackwithOneEye »

Asparagus for dinner again tonight....

his paintings are very child-like, and seem based on specific incidents he remembers, discoveries about the world, sometimes with bits of language.

even when he gets into adult themes like parenting, it seems like Henry Spencer doesn't want to let go of imagination and wonderment,
and fears responsibility.

re language - a word like jealousy for example packs a lot in. it's this very visceral uncontrollable thing you feel that comes over you,
and our brains are conditioned to translate all this stuff you feel into a neat little word.

there are scenes in Mulholland and LH that really captures what these emotions feel like, in ways that coded language just can't convey.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by mtwentz »

Soolsma wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:37 am Abandon all logic! Long live irrationality!
That's what I love about Mr. C getting some coordinates, driving from South Dakota to Washington to be raptured up into a vortex and....dumped in front of the Sheriff's station.

So irrational, so creative, so dreamy
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by Audrey Horne »

And so, so, so much of it!

I loved Lynch making it eighteen parts, airing week to week and starting it off with The Giant saying, “listen to the sounds” and then it all adding up in such a meticulous way! And by loved, I mean taking a nail and a hammer to my hand and playing a fun game of tension.

What did Mr. C want again? I know, I know, I shouldn’t expect wrapped up bows and answers… but McMuffin objectives for week to week suspense probably would’ve helped.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by JackwithOneEye »

Wisteria article on world of reel... all stuff we know already summarized..

https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2021/1 ... d-wisteria
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by Jonah »

I haven't been following any news or looking for updates but I think Mark Frost made a Twin Peaks reference recently regarding Part 8 (what a nuclear explosion looks like). Just glanced at it while stalking literary agents on twitter (I don't bother with social media otherwise) so didn't pay much attention. Does he tweet about TP much? Is anything else being tweeted out much lately? I follow fatecolossal's feed now and again but haven't seen much.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by JackwithOneEye »

fatecolassal been posting about a poll of 100 best 21st century shows recently that had TP Return at #13, but some controversy it should have been higher, because it wasn't a choice or something on the list, I dunno, I got bored reading about the rules of the poll.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by mtwentz »

Jonah wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:00 pm I haven't been following any news or looking for updates but I think Mark Frost made a Twin Peaks reference recently regarding Part 8 (what a nuclear explosion looks like). Just glanced at it while stalking literary agents on twitter (I don't bother with social media otherwise) so didn't pay much attention. Does he tweet about TP much? Is anything else being tweeted out much lately? I follow fatecolossal's feed now and again but haven't seen much.
Frost tweets about TP from time to time. I wouldn't make too much out of the nuclear explosion Tweet.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by mtwentz »

Audrey Horne wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:04 pm And so, so, so much of it!

I loved Lynch making it eighteen parts, airing week to week and starting it off with The Giant saying, “listen to the sounds” and then it all adding up in such a meticulous way! And by loved, I mean taking a nail and a hammer to my hand and playing a fun game of tension.

What did Mr. C want again? I know, I know, I shouldn’t expect wrapped up bows and answers… but McMuffin objectives for week to week suspense probably would’ve helped.
What kept me tuning in from week to week was 'Find Laura' and 'who are Richard Horne's parents'.

there was a reason they slow dripped out Richard Horne's parentage, only finally confirming until after he is liquidated.
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by JackwithOneEye »

The first milisecond of a nuclear explosion still frame is pretty fascinating. It does look abstract and resembles some of Lynch's PAFA era grey tone paintings.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by Jonah »

mtwentz wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:39 pm
Jonah wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:00 pm I haven't been following any news or looking for updates but I think Mark Frost made a Twin Peaks reference recently regarding Part 8 (what a nuclear explosion looks like). Just glanced at it while stalking literary agents on twitter (I don't bother with social media otherwise) so didn't pay much attention. Does he tweet about TP much? Is anything else being tweeted out much lately? I follow fatecolossal's feed now and again but haven't seen much.
Frost tweets about TP from time to time. I wouldn't make too much out of the nuclear explosion Tweet.
Yeah, true, I didn't really think it was worth reading into. I was more interested to see him posting about TP in general especially given his status in TP Productions is kinda unknown (to us anyway) right now. I think I knew he occasionally tweeted about it back when I was paying more attention to tweets. I guess I just wasn't sure if he still did. Good to know all the same.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

Post by JackwithOneEye »

my overall impression from his twitter feed is that Mark Frost is still enormously proud of Twin Peaks and loves to be associated with it. I'm not sure a week goes by where he doesnt tweet or retweet something TP related. He retweeted a Kyle Maclahlan post about TP around Oct 10th, some Sheryl Lee pics, Dodger Stadium playing the TP theme he mentioned other day, he seemed pretty thrilled by.

hard to find any moment in there where seems he had enough of it and was like screw this, take my name off of TP productions.
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