Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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LostInTheMovies
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

Post by LostInTheMovies »

BlackMoonLilith wrote:So yeah, personally, the idea that Leland was molested as a child is one of my least favorite aspects of it and IMO dates the show pretty clearly. Luckily, it is pretty ambiguous and never outright connected to Leland's own sexual abuse of his daughter.
Thanks for sharing the comic! I agree that Twin Peaks' legacy of dealing with sexual abuse is tangled. The show broaches it, then flubs it, and then the film redeems it. Not only does the emphasis return to Leland as a perpetrator rather than a victim, but Laura's death is no longer presented as essentially a suicide to escape the cycle of abuse as it is on the show, and as it was in the script (unfortunately, most people seem to interpret this anyway in the film).

It's so odd to me that Lynch and Frost agreed to make Leland the killer/abuser and then didn't think it mattered, to the point of not wanting to reveal it at all. But they must have known on some level that it mattered very much. And then when it is revealed, quickly explaining it away. But nobody (pardon the expression) held a gun to their head and said, "You must make this a tale of incest." They chose to go there at the same time they chose to run away from it. So strange.

I suppose in a sense they discovered it, following the logic of "the girl with dark secrets" that was the initial idea. And both had dealt with abuse as subject matter before, Lynch obviously in all of his films and Frost on several early Hill Street Blues (one of the shots even looks like Maddy in the body bag). Frost says they didn't know the killer in the pilot but soon after so in a way I guess the creative process was the one holding the gun to their heads.

While your points about abuse victims not by any means being destined to become abusers is well-taken, this aspect of the story does not trouble me perhaps because I've seen stats suggesting that while most victims don't abuse, most abusers were once victims (though the comic you linked to suggested this is not the case either, it is at least true that a disproportionate, if not majority, number of abusers were abused themselves).

And admittedly my view is colored by the fact that the real-life family sexual abuse I am most aware of was perpetrated by someone who was abused as a child, and shared this fact with very few people. That's one reason FWWM rings really true to me because in a sense Leland's abuse results from his denial as much as his denial results from abuse. If there's a cycle in the film, it is a cycle of silence, of living within a web of "secrets" kept even from oneself.

I am ok with finding out that Leland was abused himself, but what's important to me is that he still be held responsible for his own decisions. The show does not do this, going so far as to even suggest that they weren't his decisions (which makes the inclusion of an incest theme completely pointless). The film does, perhaps still too ambiguously, but much more clearly than the series.

What I am curious about is how the 2016 series will explore the topic, if at all (that is, if there even is a 2016 series!). The Laura investigation has long been solved. Leland is dead. Yet Sheryl Lee and Ray Wise are coming back and all of Lynch's efforts within this universe except episodes 2 & 29 have the slow revelation of Laura's abuse at their center (and even 2 and 29 touch on it - I sometimes wonder if the accident of Ray Wise bleeding on the picture didn't seal the deal as far as his character was concerned).

Even Frost, who seemed to want to get the mystery over with back in 1990, has spoken of the importance of the abuse theme and said he only realized it after the fact.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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I don't agree that the show totally absolves Leland. I think it treads the line in episode 16, but is also somewhat rushing to tie up his character arc, so they gild some edges until the final scene, where they put it right out there that he raped and murdered his daughter.

I think episode 17 hits the "it wasn't him" line a little too hard in retrospect, as though it was the end tag of an episode of Hill Street Blues. Though I did personally find Sarah's big scene before the wake to be appropriately optimistic and cleansing - it's the rest of the show I found tonally off. Of course, looking back maybe it's only appropriate for Sarah to end up as she is in "Between Two Worlds," a sad case, barely existing, off in her own headspace, putting on a happy face to the world.
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LostInTheMovies
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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N. Needleman wrote:I don't agree that the show totally absolves Leland. I think it treads the line in episode 16, but is also somewhat rushing to tie up his character arc, so they gild some edges until the final scene, where they put it right out there that he raped and murdered his daughter.
I think it's a bit confused about what it wants to do honestly. Frost's position has never been totally clear to me. In early interviews, he sounds like he wants it to be ambiguous - is Leland crazy? is it a vampire myth? - and I think maybe he hadn't really made up his own mind. Engels is on the record (in Andy Burns' book) as saying he was just intrigued by the demon-inhabitation aspect and not so much with the more realistic aspects. No clue what Peyton thought as I've never heard him discuss it. And Lynch was MIA, certainly in execution, possibly in conception of the episode. Also worth noting that for Ray Wise, Leland and Bob were two very different characters, and Bob was totally responsible for the bad things Leland did...perhaps his way of dealing with the unwelcome shock of finding out he was the killer one week before it was shot!!

That said, pretty much everything Leland says in the jail cell COULD be interpreted in a way that makes it consistent in FWWM. Even the most hard-to-reconcile line - "When he was gone, I couldn't remember" - could simply mean that he remembers the things he did when Bob was in him, just not the fact that Bob was there too. So the seeds are there for a more complex reading. The trouble is the episode pushes almost nobody in that direction because of how different Leland seems under Bob's influence and the things that Bob says when he's in Leland. Most viewers I've talked to interpret it as "Leland is a helpless victim of Bob who did not know what he was doing to his daughter" and I believe that was my take too until I saw the movie (the "wash your hands" scene really shocked me).
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

Post by N. Needleman »

I think it's all consistent in its own way. In episode 16 it's from Leland's POV, and it's from the POV of characters who felt for the entire family but also could never know the whole story. I think FWWM fleshes it out and reveals the whole picture.

To me, as a viewer, even before I saw FWWM I felt there was simply no way a man who's raped his daughter since the age of 12 could ever be wholly non-complicit. One is the stronger, more powerful adult, the victim is a child. I certainly put a lot of it on BOB, but to me the idea that Leland was completely blameless was never a rationale that entered my mind. But that's me.
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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I asked my girlfriend, she was of the opinion the man who flicked matches at Leland may have been BOB's previous vessel. Maybe BOB jumped over after, if not abusing Leland, maybe identifying him as a good potential vessel?
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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LostInTheMovies wrote: That's one reason FWWM rings really true to me because in a sense Leland's abuse results from his denial as much as his denial results from abuse. If there's a cycle in the film, it is a cycle of silence, of living within a web of "secrets" kept even from oneself.

I am ok with finding out that Leland was abused himself, but what's important to me is that he still be held responsible for his own decisions. The show does not do this, going so far as to even suggest that they weren't his decisions (which makes the inclusion of an incest theme completely pointless). The film does, perhaps still too ambiguously, but much more clearly than the series.
Yes, I think the denial and the cycle of silence are big things in Twin Peaks.


Here's another thing I've been thinking:

In the series, in the Leland's confession scene, "Bob" says Leland is "full of holes where his conscience used to be." This is the line that, although later they seem to try to give Leland a free pass, admits Leland wasn't innocent. His conscience was pretty much gone. He not only was sexually immoral, but it was also earlier revealed that he helped Ben with fishy business practices.

I think the idea isn't really that abused becomes abuser and abuser has been abused. It's more about how conscience works. People start to lose their conscience and it begins when they are young, and it often is a direct or indirect result of other people. In other words, the loss of conscience is cyclical. Some people are stronger in staying in touch with their conscience and some people are weaker, but it's always a battle for everyone. The more the conscience is gone, the easier it is for one to fall in to temptations, all kinds of temptations from sexual things to the abuse of the legal system.

So, it begins from an outside influence and continues with people's own choices.

"When this kind of fire starts, it is very hard to put out. The tender boughs of innocence burn first, and the wind rises, and then all goodness is in jeopardy."

There is fire in this world and everyone has to deal with it. Depending on an individual, the fire is either quenched or spread. The younger a person is when he or she first has to deal with fire, the harder the future dealings with fire will be. When Leland was young, Robertson threw burning matches at him.
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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dugpa wrote:I recall in an issue of Wrapped in Plastic they did a full breakdown of an early draft. Can't remember which one though. From memory it was a version with all of Chet's lines given to Cooper, Laura sees Cooper in her bed, much like Annie, and there was a scene with Catherine. No Audrey and no 50's prologue in the draft which was reviewed.
I have all the issues of Wrapped In Plastic, and I quickly flipped through them last weekend to see if I could find the article with the comparison of the FWWM scripts... Sadly, I could not find it. If anyone knows and could tell me which issue it is I would be really grateful! :)
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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MysteryMan wrote:
dugpa wrote:I recall in an issue of Wrapped in Plastic they did a full breakdown of an early draft. Can't remember which one though. From memory it was a version with all of Chet's lines given to Cooper, Laura sees Cooper in her bed, much like Annie, and there was a scene with Catherine. No Audrey and no 50's prologue in the draft which was reviewed.
I have all the issues of Wrapped In Plastic, and I quickly flipped through them last weekend to see if I could find the article with the comparison of the FWWM scripts... Sadly, I could not find it. If anyone knows and could tell me which issue it is I would be really grateful! :)
Could it be in issue #34

"WRAPPED IN PLASTIC #34 (Apr. 1998) - Finally, WIP takes an in-depth (13-page!) look at Fire Walk With Me! Plus: the "uncut" FWWM (including a scene-by-scene breakdown); Lynch CD-ROM news; and reviews of Dark City and The Hunted! "X-Files Extra": reviews of Stephen King and Wm. Gibson episodes of XF; book news; Golden Globe awards; and more!"
http://spectrummagazines.bizland.com/wip21to40.html
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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Rami Airola wrote:
MysteryMan wrote:
dugpa wrote:I recall in an issue of Wrapped in Plastic they did a full breakdown of an early draft. Can't remember which one though. From memory it was a version with all of Chet's lines given to Cooper, Laura sees Cooper in her bed, much like Annie, and there was a scene with Catherine. No Audrey and no 50's prologue in the draft which was reviewed.
I have all the issues of Wrapped In Plastic, and I quickly flipped through them last weekend to see if I could find the article with the comparison of the FWWM scripts... Sadly, I could not find it. If anyone knows and could tell me which issue it is I would be really grateful! :)
Could it be in issue #34

"WRAPPED IN PLASTIC #34 (Apr. 1998) - Finally, WIP takes an in-depth (13-page!) look at Fire Walk With Me! Plus: the "uncut" FWWM (including a scene-by-scene breakdown); Lynch CD-ROM news; and reviews of Dark City and The Hunted! "X-Files Extra": reviews of Stephen King and Wm. Gibson episodes of XF; book news; Golden Globe awards; and more!"
http://spectrummagazines.bizland.com/wip21to40.html
Nope, that is just a scene-by-scene comparison between the film itself and the later draft of the script
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LostInTheMovies
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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Could it be an Engels interview? Seems like that's the onlynperson who would discuss those things if they didn't have an actual draft onhand.
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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dugpa wrote:I recall in an issue of Wrapped in Plastic they did a full breakdown of an early draft. Can't remember which one though. From memory it was a version with all of Chet's lines given to Cooper, Laura sees Cooper in her bed, much like Annie, and there was a scene with Catherine. No Audrey and no 50's prologue in the draft which was reviewed.
In Moving Through Time when you show the draft with Cooper speaking Chet's line is that a mock-up or an actual draft? If the latter, how much of it were you able to see/read?
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saygoodbyetojack
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

Post by saygoodbyetojack »

i would LOVE to read that early draft of FFWM. Hopefully we find it soon!
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Re: Fire Walk With Me early drafts

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Looks like there was an earlier thread on the subject: http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1
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