Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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ManBehindWinkies
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby ManBehindWinkies » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:56 am

Jasper wrote:On a positive note, Paul Thomas Anderson is currently directing a film with an ensemble cast set in the seventies that isn't being shot primarily on studio lots. Apparently everyone not in the shot wears a mask, including Anderson himself, and everyone gets tested weekly.

Another positive development is that the FDA just gave emergency authorization to a 15-minute covid test from Abbot that doesn't require lab equipment, and only costs five dollars. The results can be read even by school nurses with little training, so I assume that it would be pretty inexpensive to have someone on a film set administering these things every day if need be. It was accurate in initial testing, and if that holds under wide release, it could make all sorts of film projects (and other things) much more feasible from a safety and cost standpoint.


It'll be interesting to see how these productions play out. Weekly testing doesn't seem frequent enough, but the 15-minute test could really make a difference, if it proves to be accurate and reliable. The PTA film revolves around high school so presumably much of the cast is younger (which isn't to say it's exclusively a younger cast). As much as I want to see new Lynch cinema I hope he's only going to shoot something when there are some proven logistics to keep people safe. The setback with the Robert Pattinson Batman film shows some of these productions still haven't figured everything out.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jasper » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:58 pm

ManBehindWinkies wrote:The setback with the Robert Pattinson Batman film shows some of these productions still haven't figured everything out.


I hope the poor guy doesn't have any significant problems. At least the project itself is just another comic book movie reboot. Honestly, I'm mainly hoping for some industry success because I want Lynch to be able to make something.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby ManBehindWinkies » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:09 am

Jasper wrote:
I hope the poor guy doesn't have any significant problems. At least the project itself is just another comic book movie reboot. Honestly, I'm mainly hoping for some industry success because I want Lynch to be able to make something.


Same here. Not just Lynch but I want creators to be able to create, and I want to be able to engage with new art because that's always been something we've been able to do even in the toughest moments in history. This feels like as difficult a moment in human history as we've ever had, not only with COVID, social injustice, but the climate crisis is intensifying. I live in Colorado and it's been a horrible with wildfire smoke blanketing the state and making the air unhealthy to breath. The skies are red and it's raining ash. Creating and experiencing art during times like these can be therapeutic or just a little respite... either way it's welcome and it sucks that even that has become hindered.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jerry Horne » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:17 pm

‘Fargo’ Finishes Season 4 Production Amid Coronavirus Pandemic:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/far ... 50054.html
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby stro » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:22 pm

I'm okay with no more, because much as FWWM and The Return have shown, it's not going to resolve or answer remaining mysteries and questions, and it will just bring up a bunch of new mysteries and questions that will never get a resolution. I also kind of feel like The Return was something of a curse, what with so many people dying before, during, or right after production.


Do you really want to see a Twin Peaks without:

Norma
Albert
Log Lady
Major Briggs
The Man From Another Place
Either Sheriff Truman
BOB
Pete
David Bowie replaced by a steaming tea kettle and voice actor

Plus actors like Russ Tamblyn, Richard Beymer, Grace Zabriskie, Al Strobel, and Piper Laurie in their 80s while much of the other regulars are in their 70s, and many of the regulars that appeared in The Return were more or less retired and came out of retirement just for the handful of scenes they got to do.

Of course, Lynch himself is in his mid 70s and it took years to get The Return off the ground and produced and aired.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby eyeboogers » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:31 am

stro wrote:I'm okay with no more, because much as FWWM and The Return have shown, it's not going to resolve or answer remaining mysteries and questions, and it will just bring up a bunch of new mysteries and questions that will never get a resolution.


Mark Frost has stated that what remains to be told is the ending i.e. Odysseus returning to Ithaca (in this case "Twin Peaks" should be seen as Troy where the battle took place, and not "home"). Also, the new mysteries and questions that came from "The Return" has been a lot of fun trying to untangle - and as "The Return" also proved, answers are provided to lingering questions. Even if those answers are 30 years coming.

Lastly, let's not exaggerate the age of the cast. Yes, some are getting up there - and whether or not they film more "Twin Peaks, I don't think will have any bearing on how much longer they stay in this world. But Maclachlan, Lee, Fenn, Amick, Ashbrook, Marshall, Horse, Robertson etc. are all youngish enough to act for many more years/decades. And actually, I think that it is very healthy to have a known IP where the entire cast is not re-booted with 20 year olds, but showing that slightly older and more experienced actors, can engage mass audiences and deliver deeper performances. Long story short, more please :-)
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:48 am

stro wrote:I'm okay with no more, because much as FWWM and The Return have shown, it's not going to resolve or answer remaining mysteries and questions, and it will just bring up a bunch of new mysteries and questions that will never get a resolution.

I don't see the problem with that, especially given the original artistic intention before producers forced their hands was for the killer to never be resolved.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby stro » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:25 am

AXX°N N. wrote:
stro wrote:I'm okay with no more, because much as FWWM and The Return have shown, it's not going to resolve or answer remaining mysteries and questions, and it will just bring up a bunch of new mysteries and questions that will never get a resolution.

I don't see the problem with that, especially given the original artistic intention before producers forced their hands was for the killer to never be resolved.


Half the creative team saw a problem with it and wrote two books to help give some concrete answers because he thought they couldn't just keep throwing out all these mysteries without resolutions or origins. I also 100% believe they would have revealed the killer at some point without network pressure unless it got cancelled before they had the chance to do so. At some point you have to gotta give some answers. I think TP was doomed either way, because audiences would have tuned out if they never gave resolution and just kept pushing it off in the same way audiences tuned out once the mystery was solved and there wasn't anything to follow.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:28 am

stro wrote:
AXX°N N. wrote:
stro wrote:I'm okay with no more, because much as FWWM and The Return have shown, it's not going to resolve or answer remaining mysteries and questions, and it will just bring up a bunch of new mysteries and questions that will never get a resolution.

I don't see the problem with that, especially given the original artistic intention before producers forced their hands was for the killer to never be resolved.


Half the creative team saw a problem with it and wrote two books to help give some concrete answers because he thought they couldn't just keep throwing out all these mysteries without resolutions or origins.


I don’t see that as the intention of the books. Certainly not TSHoTP, which raises as many questions as it “answers” (does it answer anything?). Mark had wanted to do a book in this style, chronicling the history of the town, since 1990. It was a fun project for him, not a reaction to The Return. You could argue that TFD was more of a “filling in the blanks” sort of thing, but I think both creators are fascinated by mystery, and that neither necessarily sees resolution/answers as a necessary requirement for a mystery to exist, because there are so many mysteries in life that aren’t answered.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:35 am

stro wrote:
AXX°N N. wrote:
stro wrote:I'm okay with no more, because much as FWWM and The Return have shown, it's not going to resolve or answer remaining mysteries and questions, and it will just bring up a bunch of new mysteries and questions that will never get a resolution.

I don't see the problem with that, especially given the original artistic intention before producers forced their hands was for the killer to never be resolved.


Half the creative team saw a problem with it and wrote two books to help give some concrete answers because he thought they couldn't just keep throwing out all these mysteries without resolutions or origins. I also 100% believe they would have revealed the killer at some point without network pressure unless it got cancelled before they had the chance to do so. At some point you have to gotta give some answers. I think TP was doomed either way, because audiences would have tuned out if they never gave resolution and just kept pushing it off in the same way audiences tuned out once the mystery was solved and there wasn't anything to follow.

I would advise reading interviews with Frost, because this is just not my impression at all from the ones I've read. He's said he regretted bending over to the producers, and that if the murderer were to be solved, it should have come later, so that the switch to other mysteries (which is how he envisioned it) would have been more seamless. Him and Lynch were on the same page in terms of wanting the series to be a flow of more questions growing out of any answers given. The only reason he thought it would be good to solve the murder that early (or at all) was because he felt Laura was only as important as her ability to introduce the characters and setting in a compelling way, and as a vehicle for slow-drip mystery to set the entire plot in motion, but that it would go on to other topics inevitably, anyway. It was always supposed to be an engine that worked off of the idea that there would be something unanswered or even unanswerable.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:47 am

I can’t imagine that they never meant to reveal the killer. I think the killer reveal led to some of the richest material in the franchise (Episode 14, FWWM), and gave much more depth to the series. Laura’s death went from being a MacGuffin in a Hardy Boys story to a genuine real tragedy. Even today, I think the incest reveal is genuinely shocking to first time viewers, and provided an opportunity for Lynch to really explore a horrifying real world phenomenon in a meaningful way in FWWM. I think the real narrative failing is not that the reveal happened when it did, but that the show moved on so quickly to frivolous bullshit after the fact, which Lynch thankfully corrected in FWWM. I get Lynch’s desire to let the “golden goose” keep laying eggs, but I’m not really sure how much more they could have drawn that one out.

FWIW, what I’ve read happened is that Frost sided with the network over Lynch and decided the reveal should happen. I’m not sure the network could have forced their hand if not for Mark agreeing. He has since said he regrets his decision and that Lynch was right. Again, it’s impossible to know what could/would have been, but in this instance, I’m not so sure Mark/ABC were wrong. The show might well have similarly declined if they stretched that mystery out (the cracks were already beginning to show by Episode 11 or so), and the reveal led to some of the most compelling stuff in the TP world.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby stro » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:43 am

Yeah I agree with that. They're no chance they could have held off the reveal forever, and I think even without network insistence, the reveal likely would have come not much later than when it actually did. There's no way it could have gone into a third season without a reveal, especially in the era of 22-24 episode seasons.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:23 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I can’t imagine that they never meant to reveal the killer. I think the killer reveal led to some of the richest material in the franchise (Episode 14, FWWM), and gave much more depth to the series. Laura’s death went from being a MacGuffin in a Hardy Boys story to a genuine real tragedy. Even today, I think the incest reveal is genuinely shocking to first time viewers, and provided an opportunity for Lynch to really explore a horrifying real world phenomenon in a meaningful way in FWWM. I think the real narrative failing is not that the reveal happened when it did, but that the show moved on so quickly to frivolous bullshit after the fact, which Lynch thankfully corrected in FWWM. I get Lynch’s desire to let the “golden goose” keep laying eggs, but I’m not really sure how much more they could have drawn that one out.

FWIW, what I’ve read happened is that Frost sided with the network over Lynch and decided the reveal should happen. I’m not sure the network could have forced their hand if not for Mark agreeing. He has since said he regrets his decision and that Lynch was right. Again, it’s impossible to know what could/would have been, but in this instance, I’m not so sure Mark/ABC were wrong. The show might well have similarly declined if they stretched that mystery out (the cracks were already beginning to show by Episode 11 or so), and the reveal led to some of the most compelling stuff in the TP world.

Come to think of it, has Lynch gone on record saying it was flat out never supposed to be revealed? I feel as if it might be hyperbole on his part, or shaky memory on my part. I feel every time I've seen Frost discuss it, he treats it more as a general 'mystery was meant to be retained' kind of thing, not that answers would never ever be given.

I agree, it's a blessing in disguise, and the material is stellar. Then again, I have no idea what a TP without a reveal would have looked like, so who knows?

The bigger problem was the diminishing involvement of Lynch and Frost, not necesarilly that the reveal happened or not. And in a sense, the fact that they integrated the reveal into the broader canvas in a meaningful sense, points to the enduring vision of the series as something constantly evolving and responding to itself, which is how I saw Frost recently describe it in a Blue Rose mag interview.

As for if the reveal would have happened on its own before S2 was up, I do feel it'd be likely. What else do you end a season with? I wonder if the significance of the reveal would have been heightened had it been an actual season climax? I've often seen it said that Ep14 would work as a season ending, or even a series ending.

But I don't want to discount that it would have been possible to tease it out indefinitely, at least in theory. Something about mystery bleeding out of mystery is appealing, and it doesn't foreclose that answers are given along the way. I mean, even Leland's reveal still posits the question of what BOB is.

I recall Frost saying that, in retrospect, what he would have done to strengthen S2 would be to introduce the Windom plot way earlier, because there was a vacuum of plot momentum once Leland was resolved. And I agree, of all the things that were wrong about the reveal, because its execution was so good, the real pratfalls were what happened in its immediate aftermath.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:42 pm

AXX°N N. wrote:Come to think of it, has Lynch gone on record saying it was flat out never supposed to be revealed? I feel as if it might be hyperbole on his part, or shaky memory on my part. I feel every time I've seen Frost discuss it, he treats it more as a general 'mystery was meant to be retained' kind of thing, not that answers would never ever be given.


I think Lynch has said it was “never meant” to be revealed (maybe in A Slice of Lynch?), but I took it as him speaking hyperbolically as you say. I think what he actually meant was the mystery was meant to be kept around as a driver of the narrative for much longer, not that they would literally never resolve it.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby mtwentz » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:10 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
AXX°N N. wrote:Come to think of it, has Lynch gone on record saying it was flat out never supposed to be revealed? I feel as if it might be hyperbole on his part, or shaky memory on my part. I feel every time I've seen Frost discuss it, he treats it more as a general 'mystery was meant to be retained' kind of thing, not that answers would never ever be given.


I think Lynch has said it was “never meant” to be revealed (maybe in A Slice of Lynch?), but I took it as him speaking hyperbolically as you say. I think what he actually meant was the mystery was meant to be kept around as a driver of the narrative for much longer, not that they would literally never resolve it.


I assume they were going for The Fugitive type deal, where the revelation would occur in the last episode of the series.
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