Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:21 pm

mtwentz wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
AXX°N N. wrote:Come to think of it, has Lynch gone on record saying it was flat out never supposed to be revealed? I feel as if it might be hyperbole on his part, or shaky memory on my part. I feel every time I've seen Frost discuss it, he treats it more as a general 'mystery was meant to be retained' kind of thing, not that answers would never ever be given.


I think Lynch has said it was “never meant” to be revealed (maybe in A Slice of Lynch?), but I took it as him speaking hyperbolically as you say. I think what he actually meant was the mystery was meant to be kept around as a driver of the narrative for much longer, not that they would literally never resolve it.


I assume they were going for The Fugitive type deal, where the revelation would occur in the last episode of the series.


That makes sense. ‘The Fugitive’ was clearly a big influence on both of them, what with Gerard’s name and their comments over the years.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:04 pm

Having read more about Bardo and the Tibetan book of dead, I've come to view the end of S3 as the ending. Cooper is stuck in purgatory, and trapped in a loop of reincarnations. He wants to rescue Laura and play god but he hasn't transcended, and I think that's where this particular morality play ends. He is far away. I don't know if there's enough drama/conflict showing him getting enlightenment in an S4. I think Lynch being the visual artist, he left off in ep 18 with the emotions and mood he wants to leave us with. There's interesting things you could do with a Judy showdown I suppose using her as a new big bad ... but I dunno, I think Cooper's internal conflict is the main thing. While I enjoy the comic book action style of defeating the villain in ep 17, I think the downbeat ending of 18 is the right note to close on. The id/shadow self of Cooper is still with him, the diner scene, the coldness of it all, he has intelligence and intuition, but the inner peace and acceptance is alluding him. It feels like a complete work to me. I don't know if anything should be added or subtracted at this point.

There are interviews as recent as 2009 though where Lynch says he would like to revisit Ronnie Rocket at a late stage in his career. I feel like with the high degree of visual effects and accessibility of software and digital tools now, it would be more covid era friendly, easier to lock off actors in greenscreen studios solo or limited amt of actors at once, and more CG. It would be a great as a limited series on Showtime or Netflix.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby baxter » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:52 am

That was such a great post! It almost made me stop wanting S4. A great way to view the finale.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Dougie Cooper » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:14 am

JackwithOneEye wrote:Having read more about Bardo and the Tibetan book of dead, I've come to view the end of S3 as the ending. Cooper is stuck in purgatory, and trapped in a loop of reincarnations. He wants to rescue Laura and play god but he hasn't transcended, and I think that's where this particular morality play ends. He is far away. I don't know if there's enough drama/conflict showing him getting enlightenment in an S4. I think Lynch being the visual artist, he left off in ep 18 with the emotions and mood he wants to leave us with. There's interesting things you could do with a Judy showdown I suppose using her as a new big bad ... but I dunno, I think Cooper's internal conflict is the main thing. While I enjoy the comic book action style of defeating the villain in ep 17, I think the downbeat ending of 18 is the right note to close on. The id/shadow self of Cooper is still with him, the diner scene, the coldness of it all, he has intelligence and intuition, but the inner peace and acceptance is alluding him. It feels like a complete work to me. I don't know if anything should be added or subtracted at this point.

There are interviews as recent as 2009 though where Lynch says he would like to revisit Ronnie Rocket at a late stage in his career. I feel like with the high degree of visual effects and accessibility of software and digital tools now, it would be more covid era friendly, easier to lock off actors in greenscreen studios solo or limited amt of actors at once, and more CG. It would be a great as a limited series on Showtime or Netflix.


I've endorsed the Bardo theory ever since I came to understand Mulholland Drive the same way. Cooper explaining to Albert that at "Louis Fork" . . . he had an interesting slice of cherry pie.There is a hint there (though I am sure there are others) that I like to bring up a lot. Going to and from Twin Peaks, Cooper stays at a hotel called the lamplighter inn. Now, a lamppost is known to be a trope in literature denoting a borderline between a really real realm and a maybe supernatural realm (see lion witch and wardrobe) and coop states quite clearly they got a cherry pie at the lamplighter inn that'll, well, kill ya.

Not to mention lines like "this is where pies go when they die," and the Giant telling Cooper something along the lines of "the question is. . where have you GONE?" All hint at this. Not to mention the idea of overcoming fear and the "sins" of Coopers past that continue to haunt. I could even reference the FWWM outtake that has the MFAP telling Cooper (while laughing maniacally) "There's no place to go but HOME."

I could go on, you get the point.

Lastly, note that in Episode 18 how the camera lingers on the lamppost from Cooper's POV as he exits his motel. Many have spoken of the tree in that shot, how it may resemble the tree previously seen at the Black Lodge, but that lamppost is dead center. Just saying.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:12 am

I don't know if I buy Cooper dying (or becoming a Tulpa ) with the shooting in the Great Northern - though that 315 room key does become a symbol of his unconscious, and Freddy with the Bob defeating glove is drawn like fly paper to the Great Northern, and there is the ghostly humming sound... so maybe.

even so, he still gets stabbed and forfeits his soul in the S2 finale which puts him in Bardo land for sure.

so much stuff in S3 seems like allusions of the Bardo journey, the young guy in NYC who likes coffee and sits in purgatory and stares into nothing is a ghostly echo of the past 25 years. and he gets distracted by sex/ desires. there are allusions throughout about innocence, transcendence, and being one with the cosmos. Carl Rodd is relaxed, feels no shame living in a trailer park, "I just want to stay where I am", and he can see souls. innocent Andy gets it more when the Giant is trying to communicate with him. Jerry Horne lost in the woods heavily points towards being lost in limbo, cant find a way out. Lucy not understanding cel phones points to a rip van winkle gap in 25 years. Audrey's limbo and mentions of the little girl down the lane, ghostwood, wanting to wake up and leave the house is haunting stuff.

It's possible those are parts of Cooper's unconscious telling him about transcendence, but that he as the dogged detective clinging to life casts his those thoughts aside. He seems completely confused when Laura trying to communicate she's achieved enlightenment / nirvana with the white light that's within her.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Dougie Cooper » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:55 am

JackwithOneEye wrote:I don't know if I buy Cooper dying (or becoming a Tulpa ) with the shooting in the Great Northern - though that 315 room key does become a symbol of his unconscious, and Freddy with the Bob defeating glove is drawn like fly paper to the Great Northern, and there is the ghostly humming sound... so maybe.

even so, he still gets stabbed and forfeits his soul in the S2 finale which puts him in Bardo land for sure.

so much stuff in S3 seems like allusions of the Bardo journey, the young guy in NYC who likes coffee and sits in purgatory and stares into nothing is a ghostly echo of the past 25 years. and he gets distracted by sex/ desires. there are allusions throughout about innocence, transcendence, and being one with the cosmos. Carl Rodd is relaxed, feels no shame living in a trailer park, "I just want to stay where I am", and he can see souls. innocent Andy gets it more when the Giant is trying to communicate with him. Jerry Horne lost in the woods heavily points towards being lost in limbo, cant find a way out. Lucy not understanding cel phones points to a rip van winkle gap in 25 years. Audrey's limbo and mentions of the little girl down the lane, ghostwood, wanting to wake up and leave the house is haunting stuff.

It's possible those are parts of Cooper's unconscious telling him about transcendence, but that he as the dogged detective clinging to life casts his those thoughts aside. He seems completely confused when Laura trying to communicate she's achieved enlightenment / nirvana with the white light that's within her.


To be clear, I don't think he died after the shooting at the Great Northern. Or that he became a Tulpa. My interpretation that he is already in a Bardo upon his arrival at Twin Peaks. The stabbing incident in the Black Lodge appears to be reversed (undone), I see that as a vital decision made on his part to further his journey. He made a sacrificial decision in that moment, I'd argue the right decision.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:49 am

[quote=To be clear, I don't think he died after the shooting at the Great Northern. Or that he became a Tulpa. My interpretation that he is already in a Bardo upon his arrival at Twin Peaks. The stabbing incident in the Black Lodge appears to be reversed (undone), I see that as a vital decision made on his part to further his journey. He made a sacrificial decision in that moment, I'd argue the right decision.[/quote]

yeah, thats a way of looking at it. I think any approach to S4 at this point would involve a lot of science fiction and/or It's a Wonderful Life tropes, mucking about with alternative universes and what life would be like without Cooper, Laura. Best to do Ronnie Rocket or somethin' new I think. new story, new characters.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby eyeboogers » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:24 pm

We'll see what happens. For some odd reason I think that season 4 will be more grounded than "The Return". Of course there is loads of mythology to wrap up, but I think the last round of episodes will be much more old school character driven. And this time I would be even more surprised if Heather Graham and Michael Ontkean were not a part of it. The log lady told us about the darkness that comes after Laura's scream. This is where it starts, not gearing up for battle, but trying to come back from it.

As for the "Ronnie Rocket" thing that keeps popping up, this I don't get at all. Why resurrect an unproduced screenplay from forever ago. Especially since most of its concepts were used elsewhere by the same filmmaker. It is too fan service, unlikely to make a profit, and artistically redundant at this point. I'd prefer for Lynch to finally finish his masterpiece, or if that is not possible, craft something new.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby stro » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:38 pm

Lol David Lynch movies are so well known for fan service and making profits
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:53 pm

well, if you want to bring reality into it. David Lynch is in his mid 70's, he looks every bit of it, and we're in the middle of a once in a lifetime global pandemic which is going to kill hundreds of thousands of more people over the next year and the film and tv industry will continue to be chaotic.

there's always hope. but looks like Ontkean too is in his mid 70's, lives hours away, and already has health issues and age to consider.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:06 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
As for the "Ronnie Rocket" thing that keeps popping up, this I don't get at all. Why resurrect an unproduced screenplay from forever ago. Especially since most of its concepts were used elsewhere by the same filmmaker. It is too fan service, unlikely to make a profit, and artistically redundant at this point. I'd prefer for Lynch to finally finish his masterpiece, or if that is not possible, craft something new.


That’s like saying, “Why use a chevron floor in the Red Room? He already did that in Eraserhead. It’s artistically redundant.” Obviously he’s reused elements and motifs between all his works. First season TP is in many ways a retread of Blue Velvet, but that doesn’t stop both from being masterpieces. RR is a distinct, unique world that I would love to see visualized by Lynch. Plus he has continually said he hasn’t stopped thinking about the project and has repeatedly said he imagines he will make it eventually, so clearly that world still holds his interest. If we were talking about One Saliva Bubble or something I’d agree with you, but RR has been on his imagination for decades and his filmography will feel incomplete if he never makes it.

As far as finishing “his masterpiece,” as you put it (I think a few of his films could compete for that honorific; TP is certainly unique in terms of scope and complexity by sheer nature of its expansive length and breadth, but is also distinguished by its unevenness), none of us knows whether or not he actually considers TP complete. He has repeatedly said some form of “that’s the ending,” and it’s not entirely clear if he means the ending of this season or of the entire story. But I think it’s pretty clear that he is comfortable having Part 18 act as the ending of TP. That’s not to say that he wouldn’t do more if he connected with the right idea, but unless and until that happens, I think he is fine with Part 18 being his final word on TP. He deliberately crafted TR with this conclusion, knowing full well that he might never do any more (contrast this with his interview in the Rodley book, where he laments that E29 was never intended to be the ending).
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:14 pm

Considering COVID 19, I think it's more practical to make a VFX / CG driven vehicle like Ronnie Rocket.
I think it's great stuff, it's 1950's, it's visionary, i's funny, it's got surreal elements, its unlike any script I've read really.
He doesnt have to be a slave to the 1980 draft.
You can re write and expand the material, add more story arc, involve Frost in it.

Twin Peaks would involve location filming in Snoqualqmie, Great Bend, putting actors and a crew up in hotels, just seems not practical until maybe 2022.
Lynch seems nervous already about covid, he mentions in the you tube videos he doesnt want to leave his house until there's a vaccine, and he's known to have superstitions. He even avoided coming to work sometimes I read if he saw a license plate with an unlucky number.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Jasper » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:54 pm

JackwithOneEye wrote:Lynch seems nervous already about covid, he mentions in the you tube videos he doesnt want to leave his house until there's a vaccine, and he's known to have superstitions. He even avoided coming to work sometimes I read if he saw a license plate with an unlucky number.


Has he mentioned recently that he doesn't want to leave home until there's a vaccine? If so, that's interesting in light of his apparent planning with Sabrina Sutherland. That said, there might be a vaccine pretty soon, but will it be safe and will it even work?

The story about the license plate, I think, is that Lynch was driving with someone else to the set of TP in the 90s, and they got behind a car with a 666 on the license plate. Lynch then insisted that they keep driving until they saw a lucky license plate, or things would go badly on the set. They eventually spotted a plate that satisfied Lynch, and then they got to the set, late.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:59 pm

Jasper wrote:
JackwithOneEye wrote:Lynch seems nervous already about covid, he mentions in the you tube videos he doesnt want to leave his house until there's a vaccine, and he's known to have superstitions. He even avoided coming to work sometimes I read if he saw a license plate with an unlucky number.


Has he mentioned recently that he doesn't want to leave home until there's a vaccine? If so, that's interesting in light of his apparent planning with Sabrina Sutherland. That said, there might be a vaccine pretty soon, but will it be safe and will it even work?

The story about the license plate, I think, is that Lynch was driving with someone else to the set of TP in the 90s, and they got behind a car with a 666 on the license plate. Lynch then insisted that they keep driving until they saw a lucky license plate, or things would go badly on the set. They eventually spotted a plate that satisfied Lynch, and then they got to the set, late.


I also don’t recall that “vaccine” quote, although he is clearly being very cautious.

He has also talked about how he had to drive around until he found his initials on license plates before going to work on Eraserhead. It doesn’t seem that this habit ever impacted his ability to work though. No one has ever complained about Lynch not being on set when he’s supposed to. On the behind the scenes footage for TR, he also discusses how the time his alarm clock is set for always has to add up to ten.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:12 pm

He says in Hollywood Reporter:

“You can’t work on a film right now and I think for a long time, we won’t be able to work with a big crew in a normal way of filmmaking. It’s just too dangerous right now. It’s really something to think about. I don’t really think I can make a film until there’s a vaccine.”

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/n ... or-1290834

he's mentioned it other places too.

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