Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:17 am

JackwithOneEye wrote:I agree that Unrecorded Night is the actual title.

The US copyright office likes things to be exact, and I don't think that in the event of any lawsuits, judges have time or interest in cover titles/ code titles, and could create wiggle room in arguments etc. Makes more sense to just make it air tight. That's my reaction after having read the Twin Peaks Productions vs Penguin lawsuit brief online, where there was citations of what had been specifically copyrighted in terms of teleplays and programs themselves.


I read that court opinion for a copyright class in law school! It’s actually in textbooks, I think in a very condensed version IIRC. My guess is that when Lynch/Frost Productions wound down their business as a production company, they created Twin Peaks Productions, Inc., as basically a holding company they both had interest in, in order to control the existing assets (home video and merchandising rights, etc.). Twin Peaks Productions was in existence as early as 1992—FWWM is copyrighted to TP Productions, as opposed to the series episodes being copyrighted to L/F Productions. TR is also copyrighted to TP Productions, despite bearing the logos for both Rancho Rosa and L/F Productions! I think they probably just revived the L/F Productions logo for TR as a nostalgia thing.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby LateReg » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:37 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
I read that court opinion for a copyright class in law school! It’s actually in textbooks, I think in a very condensed version IIRC. My guess is that when Lynch/Frost Productions wound down their business as a production company, they created Twin Peaks Productions, Inc., as basically a holding company they both had interest in, in order to control the existing assets (home video and merchandising rights, etc.). Twin Peaks Productions was in existence as early as 1992—FWWM is copyrighted to TP Productions, as opposed to the series episodes being copyrighted to L/F Productions. TR is also copyrighted to TP Productions, despite bearing the logos for both Rancho Rosa and L/F Productions! I think they probably just revived the L/F Productions logo for TR as a nostalgia thing.


Fascinating. Both the Rancho Rosa logos (the Vegas subdivision) and Lynch/Frost Productions logos (the silence at the end) play some part in the story itself, so I wonder if that's why they actually exist as logos in The Return.

A side note. A friend of mine had remarked early on (3rd episode or whenever we first see the billboard) that he didn't like that Lynch would use his Rancho Rosa production logo as part of the series itself; I was more open minded, but also didn't know what to think of it at the time. Little did we know that it could eventually be read as an intrinsic part of the meta-narrative/multiple levels of reality.
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JackwithOneEye
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:38 am

I had this exact thought myself about the Lynch/Frost bumper at the end of the Return, must have just been for nostalgia/continuity. I remember seeing Twin Peaks Productions for the first time in the end crawl of FWWM. I had thought it was a separate entity from Lynch/Frost Productions so they could deposit money into different accounts and show losses on tax returns, but I guess not. I was curious to see if there were corporate filings online that list Frost as an officer, didn't see any, but I saw some listings that said Twin Peaks Productions was created in 1990, but that could Lynch/Frost was created in 90, and then the name change / changed in status to a holding company down the road like you say.

I woulda thought Lynch/Frost Productions preceded 1990 though since the TP pilot was in development in 1988, filmed in 1989, and I'm sure they got fees for the screenplay & development of One Saliva Bubble before that.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:03 am

JackwithOneEye wrote:I had this exact thought myself about the Lynch/Frost bumper at the end of the Return, must have just been for nostalgia/continuity. I remember seeing Twin Peaks Productions for the first time in the end crawl of FWWM. I had thought it was a separate entity from Lynch/Frost Productions so they could deposit money into different accounts and show losses on tax returns, but I guess not. I was curious to see if there were corporate filings online that list Frost as an officer, didn't see any, but I saw some listings that said Twin Peaks Productions was created in 1990, but that could Lynch/Frost was created in 90, and then the name change / changed in status to a holding company down the road like you say.

I woulda thought Lynch/Frost Productions preceded 1990 though since the TP pilot was in development in 1988, filmed in 1989, and I'm sure they got fees for the screenplay & development of One Saliva Bubble before that.


The L/F Productions name appears on the first-season script drafts from 1989. It’s possible that they filed for corporation status earlier but it wasn’t finalized/approved until 1990. I believe that is pretty common, although it seems a bit counterintuitive, that they would be operating before the filing was fully approved. Obviously they would want to get to work and not be sitting on their hands for months waiting for the bureaucratic process when they had every reason to believe it would go through as a routine matter.

As for One Saliva Bubble, they sold that script to Dino DeLaurentiis’s production company, so he owned it (which is why it never got made when he went bankrupt). I think the L/F Productions company was formed for TP initially.

EDIT: The Pilot is also copyrighted 1989 to L/F Productions.

Poor Soolsma is going to come back to another 20 posts in this thread as we go down another rabbit hole. :(
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:13 pm

it's also possible Lynch and Frost had an LLC or something Dino wrote checks out to for OSB in 87 or 88, unless they were straight up employees or freelance contractors filing under their own names.

The other project that dates back 1990 and maybe a bit before is American Chronicles. I believe also had the Lynch / Frost Productions bumper at the end when it aired in fall of '90, though DL didnt want his name on it as executive producer beyond the first episode or two. I remember reading an interview with Frost in 1990 about how they had made that deal with Fox before Twin Peaks aired, to say that it was sold on it's own strength and merits and not riding the coat tails of the Twin Peaks ratings success in the spring. I still never been able to find the episode they both directed, that Fox never aired.

I remember watching the Hugh Hefner episode expanded into a feature in 1992, and playboy channel using Lynch's name in the promotion, but it just said Mark Frost executive producer, and Lynch/Frost Productions bumper was used, I think.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby krishnanspace » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:18 pm

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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby mtwentz » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:34 pm

krishnanspace wrote:https://twitter.com/fatecolossal/status/1337462782195867650?s=21

Peter Deming confirmed as DOP!


Awesome!

Let's use our Spidey sense to intuit what Unrecorded Night could be about...

Here's what I feel it's about. Everyone take a deep breath because I think I've got this one nailed down.

Unrecorded Night is about:
A girl in trouble
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:38 pm

JackwithOneEye wrote:it's also possible Lynch and Frost had an LLC or something Dino wrote checks out to for OSB in 87 or 88, unless they were straight up employees or freelance contractors filing under their own names.


I might be wrong, but I believe at the time, Lynch was generally selling his scripts to a studio, signing a contract in his personal capacity giving the studio the rights to the property with him as director (and, after Dune, insisting on final cut as a term of the contract). Lynch doesn’t own films like Blue Velvet; he essentially did them as “work for hire,” from a legal standpoint, even though they are of course auteur works that he conceived from start to finish. (Eraserhead being the one exception that he does own of course, which IIRC, is simply copyrighted to Lynch himself.) As far as I’m aware, L/F Productions was the first legal entity he formed, and that was mostly because L/F were in the rather novel position of actually keeping control of the property for themselves. I could be wrong, but I’ve read a lot on Lynch and never seen anything to the contrary. Of course, Asymmetrical and Absurda came later as his reputation grew and he had the clout to actually own some portion of his films as a term of the contract.

The other project that dates back 1990 and maybe a bit before is American Chronicles. I believe also had the Lynch / Frost Productions bumper at the end when it aired in fall of '90, though DL didnt want his name on it as executive producer beyond the first episode or two. I remember reading an interview with Frost in 1990 about how they had made that deal with Fox before Twin Peaks aired, to say that it was sold on it's own strength and merits and not riding the coat tails of the Twin Peaks ratings success in the spring. I still never been able to find the episode they both directed, that Fox never aired.


Mark sort of contradicts the interview you read in the Bushman interview book. He says American Chronicles came about because they signed a three-series contract with Spelling and had to come up with a show (this impliedly being post-TP). The rumor that he and Lynch directed an episode together (generally referred to online as “Champions”) is, in Mark’s words, “utter nonsense” (Bushman book again, page 159). Mark: “David had zero to do with American Chronicles. I don’t believe he ever saw anything beyond the pilot.”

EDIT: Great news on Deming! I don’t think this makes it any more or less likely to be TP, but it does ensure it will look great!
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby LateReg » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:42 pm

That's very exciting, but is there an actual source for that information? I didn't see the actual source beyond What's on Netflix confirming it. I'm just interested in what document they saw.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:09 pm

I haven't read the Bushman book yet. I ordered it like a week ago from amazon, but hasn't show up yet.

It makes sense though that Frost was fluffing a bit in 1990 doing the PR rounds for American Chronicles, but it was just part of something they had to come up with to make Spelling Entertainment happy. I remember a TV guide ad that said David Lynch discovers America or something.

re: Deming

I dunno how reliable fatecolossal is on twitter. I've seen Obnoxious & Anonymous guy read his tweets like it's the gospel. it's an interesting account, deep diving into the copyrights and trademarks, and whatnot.

As to why Unrecorded Night is 13 scripts and TP:Return was one, that could have to do with the terms and the budgeting at Netflix. They may want to know exactly what they are paying for, and how to budget and schedule it. The one long movie idea did lead to months of drama over costs and Lynch fighting in public with Showtime that Netflix may want to avoid.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:06 pm

LateReg wrote:That's very exciting, but is there an actual source for that information? I didn't see the actual source beyond What's on Netflix confirming it. I'm just interested in what document they saw.


Thank you LateReg. What's on Netflix hasn't been confirmed right about a single thing so far, and it has already been semi-confirmed that they were wrong about "Wisteria" - they are even writing that it is likely meant to be a "Desperate Housewives" reference. Deming seems very oblivious as to any production being about to start up. This is definitely not confirmed.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby BGate » Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:33 pm

Yeah, it's a bit confusing. They don't seem to be saying that they have a source, but that Deming is "listed" as the DP, presumably referring to Production Weekly, but that hasn't actually been posted anywhere yet, has it?
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby JackwithOneEye » Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:44 pm

Whats on Netflix is a dodgy account, if Deming is listed in Production Weekly though, could be legit. Just about nothing is "confirmed". Lynch nor Netflix have yet to say anything.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Panapaok » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:40 pm

Exciting and kinda expected that Deming will be the DoP. Hopefully some casting news will start coming out soon!
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:46 pm

Alright, I’m going to say one more thing on the “production company” conversation from earlier, and then I promise to shut up (unless Jacks says something interesting that I feel obliged to reply to).

I just took a look at the credits for On the Air for the hell of it...while the pilot (1991) is copyrighted to Lynch/Frost Productions, the remaining episodes (all 1992), while bearing the L/F end logo, are copyrighted to “Zoblotnick Broadcasting Corporation” (i.e., the fictional media conglomerate within the show). So it would appear that L/F Productions was indeed dead and gone by 1992, and they formed a separate company to handle the OtA rights.

Edit: Pilot is copyrighted to TP Productions, as others have subsequently correctly noted! Don’t know why I typed L/F while looking directly at the thing.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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