Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

[Mordeen]

There are difficulties in trying to read into Lynch's motivations in general. Then you need to factor in which actors were available, or more appropriately, which were unavailable, and there's a list of them. Then as we peel the onion deeper, which actors had their parts reduced or completely rewritten. Shenanigans behind the scenes that altered the story. There's a list of those too.

It's like reading tea leaves in coffee beans.

There are still stories untold that could have a significant impact on whether or not a Season 4 would ever make it past the "what if" stage that got Lynch and Frost back together in the first place.

My general advice would be to lower your expectations about a Return Return.

- Mordeen


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[Agent Earle]

Don't worry, Mordeen: my expectations are next to zero. The Return has taught me that much, at least.

P.S.: But reading your last post, I can't help but think wouldn't it be great if we got a book or a DVD special feature/documentary/etc. that would cover those issues of behind-the-scenes happenings - it's this aspect of the filming of The Return that interests me the most, or much more than those shenanigans (let's call them "politically correct") they deemed fit to show to us on the existing home video releases in any case. And so far, we haven't heard a single (semi)official word about them from anyone "in the know".

[Mr. Reindeer]

Don't worry, Mordeen: my expectations are next to zero. The Return has taught me that much, at least.

P.S.: But reading your last post, I can't help but think wouldn't it be great if we got a book or a DVD special feature/documentary/etc. that would cover those issues of behind-the-scenes happenings - it's this aspect of the filming of The Return that interests me the most, or much more than those shenanigans (let's call them "politically correct") they deemed fit to show to us on the existing home video releases in any case. And so far, we haven't heard a single (semi)official word about them from anyone "in the know".

I mean, in terms of how the home video extras depict the actual shooting portion of the production, I certainly would categorize it as “warts and all,” not “politically correct.” We see Lynch yelling at his crew at points, being stressed and doubting his own abilities at points, complaining about scheduling. We see Fenn calling him out for the fact that he wrote Audrey’s characterization as a response to her being a pain in the ass (from his perspective at least) in initially refusing to do the show. There’s some incredibly intimate footage of actors like Grace Zabriskie and David Patrick Kelly discussing the scenes with Lynch. There’s nothing sanitized about it. It’s actually shocking how open he was allowing the crew to document and release these private moments.

That being said, sure, I certainly would love to see an honest documentary where David and Mark and Sabrina discuss the PRE-production process, which they seem very reticent to address in any real depth.

[baxter]

I'd love to see the Brad Dukes book updated to cover S3, but it'll never happen I guess.

Word after it aired from both Frost and Lynch seemed positive for a continuation, but the Frost book really made me think something wasn't right, so I'm not surprised by your pessimism Mordeen.

[Agent Earle]

I'd love to see the Brad Dukes book updated to cover S3, but it'll never happen I guess.

Why do you say that? Has Dukes said anything on the subject? That would be one of the precious few TP-related projects that I actually see coming to fruition in the foreseeable future (probably without any kind of contribution from Lynch, but what can you do).

Word after it aired from both Frost and Lynch seemed positive for a continuation, but the Frost book really made me think something wasn't right, so I'm not surprised by your pessimism Mordeen.

Can you elaborate on that a bit, please? What was it in the Frost book (I'm assuming you mean the one from last year where he's interviewed extensivelly) specifically that made you think that way?

[Mr. Reindeer]

I'd love to see the Brad Dukes book updated to cover S3, but it'll never happen I guess.

Why do you say that? Has Dukes said anything on the subject? That would be one of the precious few TP-related projects that I actually see coming to fruition in the foreseeable future (probably without any kind of contribution from Lynch, but what can you do).

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[N. Needleman]

I learned long ago never to count anything out. I certainly never expected S3, and a lot of the talk about the show by the principal players in years since has not been conclusive to me and at times is outright leading, particularly by Lynch. I know the cycles this board goes through seeming to crave definitive statements based on minimal evidence one way or another and then blowing that up into absolute concrete 'fact' based on nothing, and I don't really take that bait. Whatever happens will happen in its own time. I personally would not be at all surprised at this point to see Twin Peaks back again in my lifetime, though. Not in the slightest.

[AXX°N N.]

I'd love to see the Brad Dukes book updated to cover S3, but it'll never happen I guess.

Why do you say that? Has Dukes said anything on the subject? That would be one of the precious few TP-related projects that I actually see coming to fruition in the foreseeable future (probably without any kind of contribution from Lynch, but what can you do).

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4025&p=117903#p117903

He also wrote an extremely critical essay in The Blue Rose, I forget which issue. His stance (not to devalue it or summarize it too unjustly) is that while he finds certain things to respect in terms of them working on their own in a vacuum or on the level of auter cinema, he felt like there were too many tangents and not enough focus on established characters, a distinct lack of the warmer episodic atmosphere, not enough creature comforts (for instance Peyton's snappy dialogue when set to a more frequent jazz score, etc.), and disliked that Dale wasn't still a save-the-day hero. Or in other words, good cinema, but not good TP.

Obviously I disagree, and he's free to have his opinion, but I find it tragic in some way because it just means he'll never cover the production of S3 like he's done so well on the old series.

[Agent Earle]

Oh. Wow. So I guess I now remember reading something along those lines from him here on Dugpa. I must've forgotten about it (there were so many statements about the series from various sources over the last 3 years it's hard to keep track). His words sound ... harsh. Weirdly enough, they are in the vicinity of what I would have said about the season's merits but that gives me no comfort. It still sucks we're not to expect any sleuthing efforts related to the making of TP from him in the future.

[JackwithOneEye]

Yeah, I've heard Dukes talk about season 3 on some podcasts. He definitely comes at Peaks from a TV narrative viewer's perspective, being a fan of China Beach and ABC fare of the time, I don't think he was an Inland Empire guy, which I feel like Return is far closer to than 1990-91 ABC TV.

[mtwentz]

Yeah, I've heard Dukes talk about season 3 on some podcasts. He definitely comes at Peaks from a TV narrative viewer's perspective, being a fan of China Beach and ABC fare of the time, I don't think he was an Inland Empire guy, which I feel like Return is far closer to than 1990-91 ABC TV.

He was mostly on board up until the last two episodes, but I think those two hours soured it for him.

[LateReg]

Briefly returning to the discussion of Annie and other things from the past couple pages...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by all accounts wasn't Heather Graham available but simply not asked to return? So in that particular case, we probably don't need to think about Mordeen's external/extenuating circumstances. Annie was simply never a part of their collective vision. For better or worse.

Now, while I've always approached Annie from the same perspective that Reindeer put forth (Cooper barely knew her, or Audrey for that matter, in comparison to Diane), I can certainly see Earle's perspective as well (Annie did re-open Cooper's heart and lead him into his fate in the lodge). If people think that Annie should have been there, I wouldn't argue with them.

Where I would argue, however, is when they think that Diane shouldn't be as prominent as she was. Not only does it make more narrative sense to me (Cooper and Diane's long offscreen history, which was long pondered by fans), but it makes more meta-narrative sense as well. It's not simply because Lynch likes Dern more (as many have simply proposed), but because (whether you like it or not) The Return's narrative is about more than Twin Peaks, as it comes equipped with a whole history of Lynch's collaborations that reflect the themes of looking back and time passed. In this regard, it almost has to be Dern and MacLachlan, and in my opinion is much more powerful and interesting for that reason. (Beyond that, there's all sorts of other interesting ways to look at it, including: is it really Diane? have we still never heard from the real Diane? how is Diane's silence in the original series reflected by her role and Cooper's treatment of her in The Return? etc.)

And yes, count me in on wanting to know every single behind-the-scenes tidbit that led to the making and unmaking of The Return. But like I've said before, those behind-the-scenes documentaries on the Blu-ray make for one of the greatest and most revealing special features on any set I own. We've never before got that depth of access to Lynch at work, so I consider that invaluable from the perspective of cinema history.

[Mordeen]

Heather Graham being overlooked didn't come as much of a surprise to me, considering Annie's message to Laura was, in my opinion, far more important to the narrative of the Return than Annie herself.

- Mordeen

[JackwithOneEye]

Yeah, I've heard Dukes talk about season 3 on some podcasts. He definitely comes at Peaks from a TV narrative viewer's perspective, being a fan of China Beach and ABC fare of the time, I don't think he was an Inland Empire guy, which I feel like Return is far closer to than 1990-91 ABC TV.

He was mostly on board up until the last two episodes, but I think those two hours soured it for him.

yeah, he didnt like the sheriff station thing. I've heard him critical of the others also. he liked episode 3 and thought it would lead somewhere more conclusive.

and he wanted Cooper to be more heroic. which is a valid viewpoint I guess.

I dunno though, there's all that stuff back in Blue Velvet, where Sandy says to Jeffrey, I cant tell whether you're a great detective or a pervert, with the curiosity in overdrive, and I feel like Cooper's a bit of an older continuation of that. good intentions, thinks a lot, intensely curious, arguably overtly interferes with the business of the town from the start, and the Giant initially comes in to say "where have you gone"... In some senses, he's molesting Laura all over again, going through and exposing her secrets and inner world and the desire to fix it all and white knight complex etc. so i'm fine with Cooper being flawed and more limited in his understanding of the universe from how he introduced as a genius detective in the pilot. i think that's part of lynch's parable about mysteries and human desire to conquer them.

[bob_wooler]

Interesting zoom meeting. Shared by Sabrina Sutherland.
"Another amazing night with all the Lynch gang!"