Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

[Hopper]

I think Frost expected to be a referent on set, as he was in the old days, when he was the showrunner and the day-to-day supervisor, but instead Lynch treated him as a co-writer of a big movie. He was the Barry Gifford of The Return, which is perfectly ok, but in some way that hurt his ego. This is pure speculation, of course, and I'm saying it with best of respects for all the people involved.

[johndaker]

To my eyes and ears, S3 was in its aesthetic (as Nevis said) the “pure heroin” version of DKL. And I have a really hard time imagining this version of DKL as the one Mark hoped would turn up on the screen. I have no doubt that many of the plot and worldbuilding elements that casual viewers assume must be Lynch’s are in fact Frost’s contributions. But the extremely distinctive approach to film aesthetics is all DKL, and it’s this aspect that puts off many viewers of S3 (not me). I strongly suspect Frost may be one of them. Everything Frost has ever said or written leads me to believe he would not love the aesthetic of S3 or think that it was right for Peaks. Not that I think he actually visited this site, but I’ve always imagined him lurking in the Profoundly Disappointed thread and nodding his head at everything except complaints about the plot.

This is no more than a hunch, because Frost is a very professional person and hasn’t said anything directly to this effect about S3. I think it’s an educated hunch, though.

And if I’m right that Frost wasn’t perfectly content with the way S3 turned out, and he’s also tired of having to put up with DKL as a professional partner, then I can easily imagine he might have decided he would rather not be an active partner in any more Peaks projects DKL might want to work on.

Now, if this situation were reversed, and Mark wanted to do something DKL didn’t want a part of, I’m sure DKL would just shoot it down and it would not be made. But I honestly don’t see Frost taking that approach. I think if DKL wanted to make more Peaks and Frost didn’t want to be a part of it, he most likely would say, “I’m proud of what I’ve contributed to TP over the years, and if you want to make something else without me (just like with FWWM), OK, I’ll go work on something else. Also, pay me.”

And that’s a perfectly reasonable and healthy position to take.

[underthefan]

Based on off-the-record rumors (and also the interviews with Frost book), it seems likely that Frost and Lynch have had some kind of a falling out post The Return but I would rather not speculate on the causes of the rift. However, I do find it highly unlikely they would work together again. That doesn't necessarily preclude Lynch from working on the TP continuation on his own since there's a precedent for that, but honestly I think this is much more likely to be an original Lynch project. In any case, we'll find out soon enough.

[mojo1976]

My gut tells me that Lynch and Frost worked out a deal where they can each pursue Twin Peaks on their own. Frost can write more books if he chooses and Lynch can make more films/TV and, while each product can be its own thing, it all falls under the umbrella of their shared company. With the way Season 3 ended, it seems like they can venture off an do their own things and it wouldn't really affect the other's project. It's like they got divorced and have joint custody of their child, but each can parent the child they way they to want to when it's their turn.

Also, didn't Frost say somewhere that the whole Carrie Page, Richard and Linda thing was all Lynch's idea and he didn't like it or understand it. It just seems like, if that's the case, then Lynch can go tell their stories and be done with the Frost collaboration. He can veer off into something as dreamy as he wants.

[underthefan]

And to reiterate one more thing, I was in the audience when Lynch mentioned the whole Carrie Page disturbances thing and to me it never seemed anything more than a non-committal "we'll see" or "never say never" rather than something he was seriously and actively pursuing. I think the media and the fans blew that comment WAY out of proportion. And this comes from someone who would like nothing more than a Sheryl Lee-centered feature. Just my two cents.

[Hopper]

Nothing could make me happier that a new thing following the Richard/Linda/Carrie story, but if I must take a bet, I would say this is more like a Rabbits-esque project.

Which could of course be a lot of fun. In the era of reboots and franquices, it would be refreshing a new wild beckettian surreal kind of movie, filmed in Lynch garden

[underthefan]

I'd make the same bet as you, Hopper.

[mtwentz]

To my eyes and ears, S3 was in its aesthetic (as Nevis said) the “pure heroin” version of DKL. And I have a really hard time imagining this version of DKL as the one Mark hoped would turn up on the screen. I have no doubt that many of the plot and worldbuilding elements that casual viewers assume must be Lynch’s are in fact Frost’s contributions. But it’s the extremely distinctive approach to film aesthetics is all DKL, and it’s this aspect that puts off many viewers of S3 (not me). I strongly suspect Frost may be one of them. Everything Frost has ever said or written leads me to believe he would not love the aesthetic of S3 or think that it was right for Peaks. Not that I think he actually visited this site, but I’ve always imagined him lurking in the Profoundly Disappointed thread and nodding his head.

This is no more than a hunch, because Frost is a very professional person and hasn’t said anything directly to this effect about S3. I think it’s an educated hunch, though.

And if I’m right that Frost wasn’t perfectly content with the way S3 turned out, and he’s also tired of having to put up with DKL as a professional partner, then I can easily imagine he might have decided he would rather not be an active partner in any more Peaks projects DKL might want to work on.

Now, if this situation were reversed, and Mark wanted to do something DKL didn’t want a part of, I’m sure DKL would just shoot it down and it would not be made. But I honestly don’t see Frost taking that approach. I think if DKL wanted to make more Peaks and Frost didn’t want to be a part of it, he most likely would say, “I’m proud of what I’ve contributed to TP over the years, and if you want to make something else without me (just like with FWWM), OK, I’ll go work on something else. Also, pay me.”

And that’s a perfectly reasonable and healthy position to take.

I don't want to try to get into Frost's head, but he knows Lynch and he knows his recent work before TPTR, so nothing about the way TPTR was directed should have been a surprise.

Does he secretly wish Lynch could tone a few things down to make ratings a little higher? Maybe...

But none of us actually know the financials of the Lynch/Frost partnership, and it's quite possible Frost believes that since Lynch draws such a cult following, that the weirder Lynch is, the better for Frost's bottom line. The very aspects of Twin Peaks that made it a short lived TV series and, in the case of FWWM, a box office failure, have given the Twin Peaks brand longevity to the point where Frost is still drawing checks in 2022 for stuff that was first aired in 1990. (Think of all the other shows more popular than Twin Peaks that have since been forgotten.) He and his heirs may still be drawing checks for TP:TR 25 years from now, who knows.

In summary: We are now in a 'niche' world. Yes, there is still big budget entertainment that appeals to the masses. But carving out a profitable niche is the way to make a living for many in the entertainment industry. The Twin Peaks 'niche' is primarily letting Lynch take a Lynch/Frost script to places no other director could take it, even at the risk of alienating a wider audience. Once again, I am just guessing, but I would think Frost is pretty happy with the overall results even if he did not agree with every creative decision made by Lynch.

[MaiTaiRob]

I may be in the minority, but I'm perfectly fine with no Frost involvement in TP.

His fiction writing has been on a downward trend since The Six Messiahs.

The Twin Peaks books are visually astonishing, but I'm unimpressed with the writing.
The YA trilogy he wrote started strong, but descended into B-movie garbage akin to a He-Man episode.
The Fantastic Four movies were atrocious.
Twin Peaks the Return is a masterpiece, but it's hard to tell how much of that is Frost. Most accounts seem to suggest that Lynch did a lot of on-the-fly rewriting and recent comments (some mentioned in this thread) seem to indicate that things didn't go quite the way Frost wanted.
Add to all of this the fact that FWWM is also a masterpiece, and you have a situation where I suspect things will be just fine without him.

Just so I don't come off as bashing, his non-fiction has always remained remarkably strong.

[Jonah]

Some really great and insightful posts on here for the last couple of pages that has made fascinating reading - from Mr. Reindeer, johndaker, Hopper, underthefan, hopesfall, mojo1976, mtwentz, and everyone else (apologies if I missed anyone). Frost not being the biggest fan of The Return himself (to paraphrase) was something that hadn't occurred to me and is very intriguing. Really excellent analysis in general of their relationship, speculation of how Frost was perhaps treated more like a screenwriter by DKL than a co-creator/showrunner, and Lynch's darker film aesthetics.

Posts like this are why I'll miss this forum so much. You don't get this on reddit - well, maybe now and again. But well-written posts like this are like reading mini-Lynch critiques. As someone else said (Mr. Reindeer?) some posts on here could be collected into a Lynch book. Someone replied to dugpa's tweet about the forum closing that there were PHD-level criticism in many of the posts on here. I'm again paraphrasing some of this, not quoting directly, but I agree. Kudos to you all!

[Hopper]

Of course, this forum is gonnna end tomorrow with an ongoing dispute about who do you love more, momma Lynch or poppa Frost. Could't be other way.

The past dictates the future.

[N. Needleman]

Oy. Folks, I say this with love, but one thing I won't miss about the forum (but don't expect to go anywhere in the next place) is the tendency to leap to very broad, definitive statements based on very minimal information. In almost 600 pages we've had many iterations of "Frost obviously has cut all ties to Lynch," "Lynch is obviously past it, infirm and will clearly never direct again," "this latest rumor not panning out obviously means Lynch is done with filmmaking," etc. Even yesterday's whole thing I discussed is based on just somebody's personal theory - someone thinks this new project is supposed to be about Sheryl Lee based only on their own suppositions, therefore they declare that if Laura Dern is slated to be in the project, Lee cannot appear because... there's not enough room in a movie for both of them? A movie with a plot you made up? A plot we have no evidence whatsoever actually exists? I just don't buy it, with any of this. I never did.

I am sure there is some of the old tension between Lynch and Frost these days based on how they work and what they've said since, but we often read a lot from very mild tea leaves around here. I never got the sense that Frost was kicked off the set of Season 3. I also seem to recall him talking somewhat extensively about Richard and Linda to the press when the finale aired. The new book may say something different, I don't know, but he seemed all-in on that. I have no idea if Frost has any involvement in this project; if it's not TP-adjacent I'd assume no, and if it is then it's still a maybe. But I don't think the head honchos are feuding again. Take a breath.

[LateReg]

To my eyes and ears, S3 was in its aesthetic (as Nevis said) the “pure heroin” version of DKL. And I have a really hard time imagining this version of DKL as the one Mark hoped would turn up on the screen. I have no doubt that many of the plot and worldbuilding elements that casual viewers assume must be Lynch’s are in fact Frost’s contributions. But it’s the extremely distinctive approach to film aesthetics is all DKL, and it’s this aspect that puts off many viewers of S3 (not me). I strongly suspect Frost may be one of them. Everything Frost has ever said or written leads me to believe he would not love the aesthetic of S3 or think that it was right for Peaks. Not that I think he actually visited this site, but I’ve always imagined him lurking in the Profoundly Disappointed thread and nodding his head.

This is no more than a hunch, because Frost is a very professional person and hasn’t said anything directly to this effect about S3. I think it’s an educated hunch, though.

And if I’m right that Frost wasn’t perfectly content with the way S3 turned out, and he’s also tired of having to put up with DKL as a professional partner, then I can easily imagine he might have decided he would rather not be an active partner in any more Peaks projects DKL might want to work on.

Now, if this situation were reversed, and Mark wanted to do something DKL didn’t want a part of, I’m sure DKL would just shoot it down and it would not be made. But I honestly don’t see Frost taking that approach. I think if DKL wanted to make more Peaks and Frost didn’t want to be a part of it, he most likely would say, “I’m proud of what I’ve contributed to TP over the years, and if you want to make something else without me (just like with FWWM), OK, I’ll go work on something else. Also, pay me.”

And that’s a perfectly reasonable and healthy position to take.

I don't want to try to get into Frost's head, but he knows Lynch and he knows his recent work before TPTR, so nothing about the way TPTR was directed should have been a surprise.

Does he secretly wish Lynch could tone a few things down to make ratings a little higher? Maybe...

But none of us actually know the financials of the Lynch/Frost partnership, and it's quite possible Frost believes that since Lynch draws such a cult following, that the weirder Lynch is, the better for Frost's bottom line. The very aspects of Twin Peaks that made it a short lived TV series and, in the case of FWWM, a box office failure, have given the Twin Peaks brand longevity to the point where Frost is still drawing checks in 2022 for stuff that was first aired in 1990. (Think of all the other shows more popular than Twin Peaks that have since been forgotten.) He and his heirs may still be drawing checks for TP:TR 25 years from now, who knows.

In summary: We are now in a 'niche' world. Yes, there is still big budget entertainment that appeals to the masses. But carving out a profitable niche is the way to make a living for many in the entertainment industry. The Twin Peaks 'niche' is primarily letting Lynch take a Lynch/Frost script to places no other director could take it, even at the risk of alienating a wider audience. Once again, I am just guessing, but I would think Frost is pretty happy with the overall results even if he did not agree with every creative decision made by Lynch.

I dont have much time to respond now, but I just wanted to wholly agree with mtwentz here: Frost knew Lynch's style entering into this, and Frost himself made comments about how he felt it was their job to innovate and revamp TV all over again. So he definitely trusted in Lynch's partnership to make that happen. I also just wanted to throw out there that whether Frost is just being professional or not in all of his very positive comments about The Return, I think one thing you can never doubt is that he understands how ambitious and exhausting an undertaking it was for Lynch to direct all 18 parts. That right there is enough to not doubt Frost's sincerity and praise, imo.

[Metamorphia]

Hmm. I don’t recall Mark ever referring to him becoming a less collaborative artist in the book. Do you have a page number? My recollection of the interviews was more Mark saying that David is still who he’s always been, and the person Mark has grown to accept—someone who just isn’t terribly interested in his collaborators’ other work (including Mark’s TP books) or in most filmmakers’ work (outside of Fellini/Truffaut/Hitchcock/Wilder).

Not to get sidetracked, but do you know where I can find any interviews where Lynch talks about Truffaut? I never knew he was a fan, and would be fascinated to hear more as I have been watching a bunch of his films recently.

I can't recall ever hearing Lynch mention Truffaut. Could be wrong though.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Hmm. I don’t recall Mark ever referring to him becoming a less collaborative artist in the book. Do you have a page number? My recollection of the interviews was more Mark saying that David is still who he’s always been, and the person Mark has grown to accept—someone who just isn’t terribly interested in his collaborators’ other work (including Mark’s TP books) or in most filmmakers’ work (outside of Fellini/Truffaut/Hitchcock/Wilder).

Not to get sidetracked, but do you know where I can find any interviews where Lynch talks about Truffaut? I never knew he was a fan, and would be fascinated to hear more as I have been watching a bunch of his films recently.

I can't recall ever hearing Lynch mention Truffaut. Could be wrong though.

Oh gosh. Weird typo/brain fart. I meant Tati, not Truffaut! That’s what I get for posting in the early morning.