Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)
Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
Good point AXXoNN, that's definitely the earliest concept of Cooper being the dreamer.
> Mordeen: Jean Renault's speech to Cooper speaks plainly to the concept that Cooper's presence is a catalyst for the many ensuing tragedies that befall Twin Peaks, the greatest in magnitude being the arrival of Windom Earle.
I agree, though one should consider that Earle's affiliation with Blue Book and the lodges precedes his acquaintance with Cooper. I like thinking it was probably Cooper coming into contact with the giant, and thus the white lodge, is what caused Earle's immediate escape from the institution and continue his search for the black lodge.
> Mordeen: Jean Renault's speech to Cooper speaks plainly to the concept that Cooper's presence is a catalyst for the many ensuing tragedies that befall Twin Peaks, the greatest in magnitude being the arrival of Windom Earle.
I agree, though one should consider that Earle's affiliation with Blue Book and the lodges precedes his acquaintance with Cooper. I like thinking it was probably Cooper coming into contact with the giant, and thus the white lodge, is what caused Earle's immediate escape from the institution and continue his search for the black lodge.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
- eyeboogers
- Great Northern Member
- Posts: 729
- Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:35 am
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Contact:
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
For the origin of the darkness that shrouds the town the best source is "The Secret History of Twin Peaks". Here it is heavily implied that a delicate balance was disturbed not so much by Cooper, but perhaps by what he partially represents, the hubris of the white man wanting to control and master things he does not fully comprehend.
So I disagree with Soolsma (and Mordeen) here that the balance was disturbed solely by Cooper, and that this whole storyworld has all been exclusively about Cooper's soul journey, although it is certainly one of the themes at work. To me Twin Peaks has always been about trauma, and complicity and what it takes to start a healing process. As a person, as a community. This is more true the more iterations of "Twin Peaks" exist.
So I disagree with Soolsma (and Mordeen) here that the balance was disturbed solely by Cooper, and that this whole storyworld has all been exclusively about Cooper's soul journey, although it is certainly one of the themes at work. To me Twin Peaks has always been about trauma, and complicity and what it takes to start a healing process. As a person, as a community. This is more true the more iterations of "Twin Peaks" exist.
- Mordeen
- Great Northern Member
- Posts: 895
- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:03 am
- Location: Near Mr. Gerard's Cabin in Kalispell, MT
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
I didn't say it was solely Cooper, I said he was a catalyst for Twin Peaks falling apart. Of course all the other events were taking place pre-Cooper.
Or were they?
In FWWM, Annie visits Laura in her dream and warns her of Cooper's fate. That put Cooper in Laura's consciousness prior to her death.
Then in the Return Cooper pulls her out of that fate.
One could argue based upon how time is basically meaningless is the Lodge that once Cooper showed his fear in the Lodge he was trapped there forever, but as a result had always been there.
This could make him a potential driving force for everything that happened.
If one were of such an opinion.
- Mordeen
Edited to correct multiple formatting errors.
Or were they?
In FWWM, Annie visits Laura in her dream and warns her of Cooper's fate. That put Cooper in Laura's consciousness prior to her death.
Then in the Return Cooper pulls her out of that fate.
One could argue based upon how time is basically meaningless is the Lodge that once Cooper showed his fear in the Lodge he was trapped there forever, but as a result had always been there.
This could make him a potential driving force for everything that happened.
If one were of such an opinion.
- Mordeen
Edited to correct multiple formatting errors.
Last edited by Mordeen on Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Moving Through Time. . .
- madeleineferguson
- RR Diner Member
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:25 am
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
And now Michael Horse posts about Wisteria.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNjPkkJFWmz ... 668d22ldrj
It’s Twin Peaks related. I just has to be.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNjPkkJFWmz ... 668d22ldrj
It’s Twin Peaks related. I just has to be.
- Mr. Reindeer
- Lodge Member
- Posts: 3680
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
I very much agree with the above. Of course, Cooper releases his fair share of chaos and darkness on the world through hubris and through invading on Laura’s trauma and trying to erase it without knowing if that’s what she actually would want (and possibly causes the breakdown of all time and space...whoops). And he makes several other prideful mistakes before that, as I’ve mentioned, overstepping his bounds as a lawman, having a relationship with a married woman, etc. which arguably lead to Earle’s killing spree, Mr. C, etc. It’s interesting that the Lodge is supposed to condemn him for imperfect courage, when really his sin seems to be overconfidence and pride, almost the opposite of imperfect courage.eyeboogers wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:23 am Eyeboogers writes:
For the origin of the darkness that shrouds the town the best source is "The Secret History of Twin Peaks". Here it is heavily implied that a delicate balance was disturbed not so much by Cooper, but perhaps by what he partially represents, the hubris of the white man wanting to control and master things he does not fully comprehend.
So I disagree with Soolsma (and Mordeen) here that the balance was disturbed solely by Cooper, and that this whole storyworld has all been exclusively about Cooper's soul journey, although it is certainly one of the themes at work. To me Twin Peaks has always been about trauma, and complicity and what it takes to start a healing process. As a person, as a community. This is more true the more iterations of "Twin Peaks" exist.
But IMO, making everything evil that happens all about Cooper because time is nonlinear in the Lodge and anything is possible (1) is not supported by the text IMO, and (2) cheapens so many elements of the show: Laura’s trauma, the very human and repulsive choices Leland made (with Bob’s metaphorical “influence”), the concept of jingoistic mankind being responsible for unleashing Judy at the Trinity site, etc. Maybe Cooper’s acts are the culmination of all the previous “hubris of the white man wanting to control and master things he does not fully comprehend,” as eyeboogers puts it. That I can buy, especially with Cooper at the end willingly stepping into the shoes of “the Magician” and reciting the poem. But to view him as the literal cause of all those events because he is the “dreamer”absolves the true guilty parties like Leland of culpability, and robs the show of its human reality, which to me is every bit as important as the mythology, and probably moreso.
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
I agree with this and really liked reading eye boogies and sools thoughts. I think all 3 of you are right. I think theres many different ways to look at Twin Peaks. Is it all real? What is real? I sometimes think that the white and Black lodges aren't real and there are white and black lodges in everyone. And tulpas and dopplegangers and fireman aren't real. Its all in Cooper's crazy head. Crazy people see "evil coop" talking to a teapot that is suppose to be Phillip Jefferies. Theres many ways to look at it and the unknown of it and the different ways it could be are amazing. It's all just a dream. But I also agree with its all real and cooper did really come to down to investigate Laura's murder. And if it is all real with BoB and Laura's murder then you can't change the past and Cooper can never save Laura.
I don't claim to be right or know more than anyone. Also not trying to say anyone else is wrong in the ways they see it. ( I have to add this because people tend to jump on you here if you view something differently)
"Wanting something to be different will not make it so." "Explaining a different rule is not complaining for months. A lie will never be true." - Dale Cooper: My Life, My Tapes.
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
@Jerry Horne I'm not sure if this website will let me quote you on this....but on March 8th in this thread on page 210 you posted a screenshot of some text about unbloomed wisteria......Can you please explain what that text is all about pretty please
I've been wondering about it since March 8th. Or maybe someone else that knows can explain it? who's talking? etc
Last edited by TwinsPeak on Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Wanting something to be different will not make it so." "Explaining a different rule is not complaining for months. A lie will never be true." - Dale Cooper: My Life, My Tapes.
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
Is that definitely a wisteria plant? Did he say anything else in the comments or post the hashtag anywhere? I had a quick look but not on Instagram so not sure if there's more to see. Feels like this might be leading up to an announcement of the project. Even if it's not Peaks (unlikely given all these hints), it would also be cool if Lynch is casting TP alum in an unrelated new show.madeleineferguson wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:05 am And now Michael Horse posts about Wisteria.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNjPkkJFWmz ... 668d22ldrj
It’s Twin Peaks related. I just has to be.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
I feel my post is being interpreted wrong in the sense that I meant he was a catalyst, not the as in singular. Of course there are larger forces at play, and smaller ones as well.Though I consider him to be the dreamer, I don't see how that would diminish the human reality of the show, we are talking surrealism after all, and certain truths don't exclude others.
Edit: Because imo that would be the same as saying Diane's nightmare (or take it as you will) makes Betty and Rita's relationship less real, which was probably the most elemental subject of MD.
Edit: Because imo that would be the same as saying Diane's nightmare (or take it as you will) makes Betty and Rita's relationship less real, which was probably the most elemental subject of MD.
Last edited by Soolsma on Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
- madeleineferguson
- RR Diner Member
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:25 am
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
Jonah wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:34 amIs that definitely a wisteria plant? Did he say anything else in the comments or post the hashtag anywhere? I had a quick look but not on Instagram so not sure if there's more to see. Feels like this might be leading up to an announcement of the project. Even if it's not Peaks (unlikely given all these hints), it would also be cool if Lynch is casting TP alum in an unrelated new show.madeleineferguson wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:05 am And now Michael Horse posts about Wisteria.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNjPkkJFWmz ... 668d22ldrj
It’s Twin Peaks related. I just has to be.
I'm no Harold Smith, but it looks like wisteria to me. And a bunch of the comments say it's wisteria.
- Mordeen
- Great Northern Member
- Posts: 895
- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:03 am
- Location: Near Mr. Gerard's Cabin in Kalispell, MT
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
Fairly certain it's an echium fastuosum plant. They grow upward. Witseria is a tree whose blossoms droop downward.
- Mordeen
- Mordeen
Moving Through Time. . .
- Mordeen
- Great Northern Member
- Posts: 895
- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:03 am
- Location: Near Mr. Gerard's Cabin in Kalispell, MT
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
- Mordeen
Last edited by Mordeen on Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Moving Through Time. . .
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
Is there an insect or something on the plant? Is that what he's really posting a photo of?
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
- Mordeen
- Great Northern Member
- Posts: 895
- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:03 am
- Location: Near Mr. Gerard's Cabin in Kalispell, MT
Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?
I thought a bee at first but that it looked too big.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.