The Tremonds

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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:26 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
boske wrote:
Cappy wrote:I assume that the space with the flowered wallpaper in FWWM is the same as the dark realm Mr. C visits above the convenience store in S3. And MIKE claims that he and BOB lived in that place during Cooper's dream in the original series ("a convenience store -- we lived above it"). Maybe I'm looking too literally at some of the information though.

To me it felt clear that Lynch was depicting something that was mentioned in Ephesians 6:12.


Can you expand on that? We know Eraserhead was partly inspired by a Bible quote, and he tried to recreate that when he got stuck on INLAND EMPIRE by reading the Bible, so it’s not out of the realm of possible. I don’t see the connection though in this instance.

I don’t take the “flowered wallpaper room” as being literally above the convenience store. I think the convenience store, flower room and staircase, and motel are all separate otherworldly locations, but you can access them through each other. I still think the room we see in FWWM where the spirits meet is the true “above the convenience store” space Mike references (which also doesn’t seem to physically exist in our world).

I agree with you on the non-literal interpretation of things, which is why I found the scene fascinating when I saw it. If you go back to that S3 scene you will remember that Mr C. and a dark entity climb the stairs together, and then walk through the air until they reach that place, and then take another stairs up to reach the motel, which is clearly belonging to another "dimension". Which features Jeffries and number 8. Go back to FWWM where Jeffries scene begins, it is the pole sporting number 6 and then him existing the elevator in Philadelphia on the 7th floor. So there is a progression there 6 -> 7 -> 8. What about Dougie? He is at Lucky 7 Insurance. Lynch is simply depicting different realms here, and the dark abode is one of them.
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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:41 am

Another interesting observation. You cannot really see it in the final S2 scene (but for a brief moment), but the FWWM missing pieces scene of Cooper breaking the mirror lets you see it clearly. Coincidental or not (to me probably not), it is the shower curtain pattern. It does look like the wallpaper pattern we just talked about, doesn't it? Color tones seem to be the same.
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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:37 am

When you rewatch some scenes you can sometimes see things that you did not before, and what I just saw is really weird. Here is the Buenos Aires scene where Jeffries has just entered the hotel, and having picked up the message is on his way to, I presume his room. Notice how there is an outline of a shadow on the other side of the window!

Jeffries 1.png
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Here is a shot of the before Jeffries passes by the mysterious person:

Jeffries 2.png
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Having passed it by, "the shadow" will briefly turn his head in Jeffries' direction and then look back again.

Jeffries 3.png
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We know what happens after that (and the red curtains and the stairs are there too, which is why I was talking about earlier as well):

Jeffries 4.png
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So is this shadow there by an accident? Hard to tell, maybe it is Cole or Cooper. My initial gut feeling (and I stuck with it in the end), was that it must have been Jeffries' doppelgänger, a shadow indeed which then sabotaged him! And this is all going on while we are looking at the tango couple...
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Cappy
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Cappy » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:02 am

Wow, crazy find with the shadow. I can't tell if it's Coop, Gordon, Jeffries' doppelganger or Chet Desmond -- all of those FBI guys would cut a similar silhouette due to their standard FBI hairstyles. Although maybe it's not Coop, as his hair tends to sit flatter than the silhouette here.

I think I might see Jeffries' face superimposed over the Jumping Man and Sarah Palmer's face during that scene in S3. Some people claim to see Laura Palmer in that too, but I don't know about that...

Perhaps you are onto something with the staircase as a relevant motif. This discussion reminds me of Dougie scribbling all those stairs and ladders over his insurance paperwork. And the Woodsmen hanging out on the stairs in Gordon's vision, and Gerstyen + Stephen hiding on them before they disappear in the woods...
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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:42 am

Yes, you are right, it could even be Desmond, but for some reason it just felt like it was Jeffries' doppelgänger (it is a shadow after all!). As I was watching these FWWM deleted scenes, there was again the Palmer house staircase and the fan, and the fan is just like a funnel, and these feature prominently in S3.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:21 am

boske wrote:Yes, you are right, it could even be Desmond, but for some reason it just felt like it was Jeffries' doppelgänger (it is a shadow after all!). As I was watching these FWWM deleted scenes, there was again the Palmer house staircase and the fan, and the fan is just like a funnel, and these feature prominently in S3.


The first screenshot you posted really looks like Jeffries’s outline to me. The cut of the jacket on the shoulders, the posture, the hair. Cool find. Maybe if Jeffries’s doppel was traveling around, this could explain the strange timeline (Jeffries is missing for two years, yet it seems from TMP that he returns to the hotel seconds after disappearing).
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:47 am

boske wrote:Another interesting observation. You cannot really see it in the final S2 scene (but for a brief moment), but the FWWM missing pieces scene of Cooper breaking the mirror lets you see it clearly. Coincidental or not (to me probably not), it is the shower curtain pattern. It does look like the wallpaper pattern we just talked about, doesn't it? Color tones seem to be the same.


The shower curtain looks different to me. Definitely a very similar color scheme, but the shapes are different enough that I suspect it’s a coincidence. You may well be on to something though. Who knows haha. (Sorry, for some reason it keeps posting sideways, but you get the idea.)
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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:39 am

It is definitely not the exact same pattern (I did not mean it that way for sure), but it does resemble it, especially from a bit away, the color palette looks to be the same. The wallpaper sports some roses and this one just has some random diamond-like shapes, I am still thinking it is not a coincidence.

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LateReg
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby LateReg » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:30 am

boske wrote:
LateReg wrote:
boske wrote:We are also missing something here that seems to be floated in front of our faces: "It is in our house now". Yes it is, Tremonds are in the Palmer house. The more I think about, the more it seems is that the opening scene of S3 takes place after Laura disappears while being saved by Cooper. And the color scheme of the scenes seems identical.


As far as color scheme, Laura and Cooper scene is black and white until Laura's body disappears from the lake beach, is it not?


Late reply here, but, yes, that is correct. It's black and white. They cut to Laura's body disappearing during the pilot footage. They cut back to Cooper in black and white. Then they show Laura and she turns from black and white to color, as does everything else.

I was confused because I thought you meant that the opening scene takes place after FWWM Laura disappears from Cooper's grasp while walking through the woods, which is in color. However, you were talking about Laura's wrapped in plastic body disappearing from the shore, which is indeed in black and white. So yes, it seems as though the opening scene could have taken place on some plane of existence directly after Laura's body disappears in the pilot footage, at the same "time" that Cooper is leading Laura away from her death and everything turns to color.

On a separate note, I spoke about the significance of color vs. black and white in another thread with Mr. Reindeer, focusing on the Part 14 visions that Andy has. This fits into that as well - color occurs when time becomes malleable, while black and white is used when events have already happened (this doesn't include the Fireman's residence, of course) and are supposedly set in stone. Hence the change from black and white to color in the present after Laura's dead body disappears in the past. Maybe since the pilot footage was in black and white - and supposedly set in stone - that signifies that Cooper really messed with time in a way that is not allowed.
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boske
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:44 am

I got that vibe too, it looks like Cooper had transgressed, and then was promptly summoned to the Fireman's place, and then released from the lodge again, this time for "Richard and Linda" timeline. But if the year was wrong, who had chosen it for him? It was not Jeffries this time around? Did Cooper do it, or was it the Fireman? But if the year was the right one, then maybe he should have gone to his home.

There is a cable channel here that just started rerunning S3 on a daily basis, and today is part 6 day, and to me it now feels most natural to see a part a day (weekends included), no more no less, it just feels about right. So having started watching it carefully, and from some different angles, there does seem to be some logic at play, with several different threads making up the fabric of S3, so I wanted to comment on the idea that 119 woman and the child are somehow another iteration of Tremonds. There is a card there deck and some needles/pins, yes, so that may link to Mr. C.'s ace of spades, and a world of crime and drug running.

But I think it is more likely that we are merely looking here at an idea of a fatherless society, and it is a point that is raised (pun maybe intended) more than once in S3. Not only the original Dougie, who was said to have been gone for days, it is also Richard Horne that did not have a father and is completely unhinged with awful role models to look up to. Who else? Ben Horne, divorced and not with his son that indeed most needs him, but this is nothing new. What about Becky? Not that much Bobby Briggs in her life it seems. Even that poor child than was ran over in part 6, just a mother with him, no father. And having just seen part 6, it hints that the original Dougie may not have spent that much time with Sonny Jim, as if they genuinely played together for the very first time clapping their hands to turn light on and off in part 6. "You better hurry, my mother is coming", even Leland got the shortest possible scene (as much as I hated that decision, Lynch and Frost may have tried to send a deliberate message).

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