Characters that could still be alive.

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Jonah
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Characters that could still be alive.

Postby Jonah » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:49 am

Could Pete, Josie, and others be alive again after the events of Part 17?
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Characters that could still be alive.

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:02 pm

I don’t subscribe to a straightforward sci-fi “alternate universe” interpretation of P17/P18. Under such an interpretation, however, I imagine the events that led to both characters’ deaths would still play out. The Eckhardt storyline doesn’t really have anything to do with Laura, so if she disappeared as opposed to dying, I don’t think much would change for them.

But if Lynch went somewhere more crazy and innovative with the repercussions of P17 (as I believe he did in P18 and would continue to), then sure, Josie could be alive. She also doesn’t have to be alive in order to appear.

From a practical standpoint, Pete won’t be alive because Lynch would never recast the late Nance.
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Dougie Cooper
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Re: Characters that could still be alive.

Postby Dougie Cooper » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:30 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I don’t subscribe to a straightforward sci-fi “alternate universe” interpretation of P17/P18. Under such an interpretation, however, I imagine the events that led to both characters’ deaths would still play out. The Eckhardt storyline doesn’t really have anything to do with Laura, so if she disappeared as opposed to dying, I don’t think much would change for them.

But if Lynch went somewhere more crazy and innovative with the repercussions of P17 (as I believe he did in P18 and would continue to), then sure, Josie could be alive. She also doesn’t have to be alive in order to appear.

From a practical standpoint, Pete won’t be alive because Lynch would never recast the late Nance.


I'm still hoping for a Josie appearance in the Blank Lodge.
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Re: Characters that could still be alive.

Postby Agent Earle » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:51 pm

I don't think Lynch cares for such characters as Josie, Catherine, Pete, Leo, etc. anymore. Those are dusty, long-since forgotten (or retconned) staples of the old TP which he pretty much did everything that was in his power to discontinue with The Return (it's downright farcical of him to continue speaking of his love of "a continuing story", 'cause The Return was anything but). To put things more bluntly: he could've had Josie, but he picked Naido instead. Everyone from the old show that he did retain felt so off-the-wall in comparison with his previous persona that it seemed to me like I'm watching aliens emulating some aspect of "the faces that were". Just look at what he did with Diane, for instance - was she even a real character, let alone chirpy secretary we envisioned when we heard Coop addressing "her" in seasons one and two?! I think that wherever he goes from here (if he does go anywhere, that is), it'll be somewhere so far removed from the characters and plotlines of the old TP that even The Return will feel like nostalgia-coaxing love letter to it.
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Dougie Cooper
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Re: Characters that could still be alive.

Postby Dougie Cooper » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:12 pm

Agent Earle wrote:I don't think Lynch cares for such characters as Josie, Catherine, Pete, Leo, etc. anymore. Those are dusty, long-since forgotten (or retconned) staples of the old TP which he pretty much did everything that was in his power to discontinue with The Return (it's downright farcical of him to continue speaking of his love of "a continuing story", 'cause The Return was anything but). To put things more bluntly: he could've had Josie, but he picked Naido instead. Everyone from the old show that he did retain felt so off-the-wall in comparison with his previous persona that it seemed to me like I'm watching aliens emulating some aspect of "the faces that were". Just look at what he did with Diane, for instance - was she even a real character, let alone chirpy secretary we envisioned when we heard Coop addressing "her" in seasons one and two?! I think that wherever he goes from here (if he does go anywhere, that is), it'll be somewhere so far removed from the characters and plotlines of the old TP even The Return will feel like nostalgia-coaxing love letter to it.


As to whether or not Diane was a real character. I remember one episode where Cooper thanked her for sending ear plugs. So I've always thought of her as "real" (in the world of TP's).
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Re: Characters that could still be alive.

Postby Agent Earle » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:23 pm

Dougie Cooper wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:I don't think Lynch cares for such characters as Josie, Catherine, Pete, Leo, etc. anymore. Those are dusty, long-since forgotten (or retconned) staples of the old TP which he pretty much did everything that was in his power to discontinue with The Return (it's downright farcical of him to continue speaking of his love of "a continuing story", 'cause The Return was anything but). To put things more bluntly: he could've had Josie, but he picked Naido instead. Everyone from the old show that he did retain felt so off-the-wall in comparison with his previous persona that it seemed to me like I'm watching aliens emulating some aspect of "the faces that were". Just look at what he did with Diane, for instance - was she even a real character, let alone chirpy secretary we envisioned when we heard Coop addressing "her" in seasons one and two?! I think that wherever he goes from here (if he does go anywhere, that is), it'll be somewhere so far removed from the characters and plotlines of the old TP even The Return will feel like nostalgia-coaxing love letter to it.


As to whether or not Diane was a real character. I remember one episode where Cooper thanked her for sending ear plugs. So I've always thought of her as "real" (in the world of TP's).


I think there's a misunderstanding here: I never doubted that Diane of seasons 1 and 2 was real. My doubts are directed at the thing that was presented to us as Diane in season 3.
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Re: Characters that could still be alive.

Postby eyeboogers » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:13 am

The thing is, TPTR was not produced in the 1990's but in 2016ish, and in the meantime (luckily) gender politics have changed. The assumption of the "chirpy secretary" whose only purpose was to serve the male protagonist is neither interesting or acceptable at this point in history. They satirised this a bit by how Cole and Rosenfeld were constantly objectifying the very capable Tamara Preston, while the show at the same time made it clear that the two gentlemen in some ways belonged in a museum.

Naido/Diane was central to what the writers wanted to say about cycles of abuse - something that has always been a core theme in "Twin Peaks". Diane was raped by someone she trusted, someone she let into her home (no knock, no doorbell), and the faceless, speechless Naido reflects her trauma. It is mirrored again by whatever has happened to Audrey. These are not random casting choices and Josie could in no way have fit this plot function. Gender politics, the culture of victim blaming and making excuses for abusers, and how we can collectively be part of causing abuse when we as a society stay silent is what the show is about, and has always been about - "In a town like Twin Peaks no one is innocent". More than anything else, this is what makes the show important and unique.

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