Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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sirpsychoswayze
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby sirpsychoswayze » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:33 am

This might be kind of a far-out idea, but does anyone else get the feeling that Lynch might be doing something overtly meta with this season of Twin Peaks, almost like when Stephen King wrote himself into The Dark Tower? Gordon Cole has been such a huge, central character in this iteration and I think there's something really curious about the way he seems to be reconnecting with the world of Twin Peaks. This first time this occurred to me is when Cole had a vision of Laura Palmer in the Buckhorn hotel. The way that scene is presented - almost like a movie theatre projection in his doorway - feels very strange to me; it puts the character at an interesting remove, suggesting that he's passively viewing this thing rather than actively experiencing it.

This disconnect seems to occur again in episode 14, with Cole talking about his dream in a sequence that explicitly references the world of cinema (in this week's episode of A Twin Peaks Podcast, Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich mention that the dream sequence takes place in front of the Renoir Hotel, possibly referencing fellow filmmaker Jean Renoir, and of course we have Monica Bellucci playing herself.) While watching this scene, I was struck with the idea that maybe Cole's dream takes place in our reality - that what we're viewing may actually be David Lynch and Monica Bellucci having coffee, and in the midst discussing some artistic philosophy ("We are like the dreamer..."), Lynch remembers himself experiencing a dream in another life, as the younger Gordon Cole.

I feel like this fits in pretty neatly with all of the dream stuff we've been dealing with in Season 3, a revival that itself feels closer to a reverie with each passing episode. I know Lynch is obsessed with the idea of shared consciousness and the unified field, so I wouldn't be surprised if this season ended with a reveal that suggested that maybe Twin Peaks itself is a nothing but a dreamscape - a sacred place shared between its creators, its viewers and possibly even the characters who inhabit it every day. I don't think anything like that has ever been done on TV before and while it would definitely anger a lot of people, I feel like there's a really exciting opportunity there.
bastia
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby bastia » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:41 am

sirpsychoswayze wrote:This might be kind of a far-out idea, but does anyone else get the feeling that Lynch might be doing something overtly meta with this season of Twin Peaks, almost like when Stephen King wrote himself into The Dark Tower? Gordon Cole has been such a huge, central character in this iteration and I think there's something really curious about the way he seems to be reconnecting with the world of Twin Peaks. This first time this occurred to me is when Cole had a vision of Laura Palmer in the Buckhorn hotel. The way that scene is presented - almost like a movie theatre projection in his doorway - feels very strange to me; it puts the character at an interesting remove, suggesting that he's passively viewing this thing rather than actively experiencing it.


This disconnect seems to occur again in episode 14, with Cole talking about his dream in a sequence that explicitly references the world of cinema (in this week's episode of A Twin Peaks Podcast, Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich mention that the dream sequence takes place in front of the Renoir Hotel, possibly referencing fellow filmmaker Jean Renoir, and of course we have Monica Bellucci playing herself.) While watching this scene, I was struck with the idea that maybe Cole's dream takes place in our reality - that what we're viewing may actually be David Lynch and Monica Bellucci having coffee, and in the midst discussing some artistic philosophy ("We are like the dreamer..."), Lynch remembers himself experiencing a dream in another life, as the younger Gordon Cole.

I feel like this fits in pretty neatly with all of the dream stuff we've been dealing with in Season 3, a revival that itself feels closer to a reverie with each passing episode. I know Lynch is obsessed with the idea of shared consciousness and the unified field, so I wouldn't be surprised if this season ended with a reveal that suggested that maybe Twin Peaks itself is a nothing but a dreamscape - a sacred place shared between its creators, its viewers and possibly even the characters who inhabit it every day. I don't think anything like that has ever been done on TV before and while it would definitely anger a lot of people, I feel like there's a really exciting opportunity there.




I kind of think that.

Anyone who thinks that the switch from '3' to '15' in the naido's room means that cooper will come back in part 15? The next one
Esselgee
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Esselgee » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:50 am

At this point, getting the real Cooper back before the final half hour of part 18 would be completely surprising.
KyleRickards
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby KyleRickards » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:59 am

bastia wrote:
sirpsychoswayze wrote:This might be kind of a far-out idea, but does anyone else get the feeling that Lynch might be doing something overtly meta with this season of Twin Peaks, almost like when Stephen King wrote himself into The Dark Tower? Gordon Cole has been such a huge, central character in this iteration and I think there's something really curious about the way he seems to be reconnecting with the world of Twin Peaks. This first time this occurred to me is when Cole had a vision of Laura Palmer in the Buckhorn hotel. The way that scene is presented - almost like a movie theatre projection in his doorway - feels very strange to me; it puts the character at an interesting remove, suggesting that he's passively viewing this thing rather than actively experiencing it.


This disconnect seems to occur again in episode 14, with Cole talking about his dream in a sequence that explicitly references the world of cinema (in this week's episode of A Twin Peaks Podcast, Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich mention that the dream sequence takes place in front of the Renoir Hotel, possibly referencing fellow filmmaker Jean Renoir, and of course we have Monica Bellucci playing herself.) While watching this scene, I was struck with the idea that maybe Cole's dream takes place in our reality - that what we're viewing may actually be David Lynch and Monica Bellucci having coffee, and in the midst discussing some artistic philosophy ("We are like the dreamer..."), Lynch remembers himself experiencing a dream in another life, as the younger Gordon Cole.

I feel like this fits in pretty neatly with all of the dream stuff we've been dealing with in Season 3, a revival that itself feels closer to a reverie with each passing episode. I know Lynch is obsessed with the idea of shared consciousness and the unified field, so I wouldn't be surprised if this season ended with a reveal that suggested that maybe Twin Peaks itself is a nothing but a dreamscape - a sacred place shared between its creators, its viewers and possibly even the characters who inhabit it every day. I don't think anything like that has ever been done on TV before and while it would definitely anger a lot of people, I feel like there's a really exciting opportunity there.




I kind of think that.

Anyone who thinks that the switch from '3' to '15' in the naido's room means that cooper will come back in part 15? The next one


I like that theory


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Enig
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Enig » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:13 pm

bastia wrote:Anyone who thinks that the switch from '3' to '15' in the naido's room means that cooper will come back in part 15? The next one

It changes from 15 to 3. Kinda doubt it signifies anything about Coop's awakening, at least not in that way.
ShelleyAgedWell
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby ShelleyAgedWell » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:25 pm

bastia wrote:
sirpsychoswayze wrote:This might be kind of a far-out idea, but does anyone else get the feeling that Lynch might be doing something overtly meta with this season of Twin Peaks, almost like when Stephen King wrote himself into The Dark Tower? Gordon Cole has been such a huge, central character in this iteration and I think there's something really curious about the way he seems to be reconnecting with the world of Twin Peaks. This first time this occurred to me is when Cole had a vision of Laura Palmer in the Buckhorn hotel. The way that scene is presented - almost like a movie theatre projection in his doorway - feels very strange to me; it puts the character at an interesting remove, suggesting that he's passively viewing this thing rather than actively experiencing it.


This disconnect seems to occur again in episode 14, with Cole talking about his dream in a sequence that explicitly references the world of cinema (in this week's episode of A Twin Peaks Podcast, Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich mention that the dream sequence takes place in front of the Renoir Hotel, possibly referencing fellow filmmaker Jean Renoir, and of course we have Monica Bellucci playing herself.) While watching this scene, I was struck with the idea that maybe Cole's dream takes place in our reality - that what we're viewing may actually be David Lynch and Monica Bellucci having coffee, and in the midst discussing some artistic philosophy ("We are like the dreamer..."), Lynch remembers himself experiencing a dream in another life, as the younger Gordon Cole.

I feel like this fits in pretty neatly with all of the dream stuff we've been dealing with in Season 3, a revival that itself feels closer to a reverie with each passing episode. I know Lynch is obsessed with the idea of shared consciousness and the unified field, so I wouldn't be surprised if this season ended with a reveal that suggested that maybe Twin Peaks itself is a nothing but a dreamscape - a sacred place shared between its creators, its viewers and possibly even the characters who inhabit it every day. I don't think anything like that has ever been done on TV before and while it would definitely anger a lot of people, I feel like there's a really exciting opportunity there.




I kind of think that.

Anyone who thinks that the switch from '3' to '15' in the naido's room means that cooper will come back in part 15? The next one


I thought the 3 and 15, if anything, refers to Room 315 of The Great Northern Hotel, where Good Coop stayed in the original series.
douglasb
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Re: RE: Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:03 pm

Novalis wrote:
sycamore wrote:
Dreamy Audrey wrote:His instagram account is private now, too. I don't know why they would make such a big deal out of his revelation, though. It wasn't really a revelation, more of a confirmation. He was credited in the episode as "voice", Jeffries was the only logical role he could have voiced (and it was noticeable that Jeffries had a different voice from FWWM), and I'm sure if we compared Frizzell's voice from other work to the line in Twin Peaks, we would also be able to figure out it's him. If they wanted to keep it secret, they should not have credited him in this episode.


Next question: might it also be Nathan Frizzell's voice in one of the final scenes in part 2 - when Mr C talks with Jeffries on the phone? Anyone wanna do a comparison? In part 2, the voice is uncredited.


Someone asked Frizzell this before the account went to protected status. I didn't see a reply.
I'm sure I've seen something suggesting he replied along the lines of "You'll have to ask the Boss Man." - implying he did do more work, but couldn't say.
bastia
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby bastia » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:15 pm

Enig wrote:
bastia wrote:Anyone who thinks that the switch from '3' to '15' in the naido's room means that cooper will come back in part 15? The next one

It changes from 15 to 3. Kinda doubt it signifies anything about Coop's awakening, at least not in that way.



I think it won't be connected in a explicit way, but I have this feeeling it will fit in the previous idea. A meta connection who's not relevant to the plot, but maybe it will just fit in it.

Anyway of course it is just conjectures. What I really think it is that the last episodes will be really 'wild'. Can't really say that after 14 episodes of a serie I ever felt this way, (only in the original run of TP)just so unpredictable.
The Return can finish in so many ways that I almost don't want it to finish.
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ScarFace32
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:23 pm

It seems obvious in retrospect that Janey-E might be Diane's half-sister (or manufactured). Diane was the only real person who was close to Cooper, so it makes sense that his doppelganger would use Diane (via her estranged sister to manufacture Dougie). I mean who else would he use?
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HagbardCeline
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby HagbardCeline » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:35 pm

I screencapped a couple quotes that I felt were interesting and relate to this episode. The top one is from Secret History and is from a conversation between Doug Milford and Major Briggs where he talks about the White Rabbit and the Rabbit Hole. The other one is from Bob Engels where he talks about dreams.

Image
Last edited by HagbardCeline on Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ScarFace32
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:36 pm

claaa7 wrote:i'm fascinated by the repeated use of the girl running across the school yard screaming excised from the original Pilot.. it was pretty much the first image we saw of the entire new series and now it returns once again in Andy's lodge visions. i wonder what's the significance here?


Me too,when I first saw this in the Return it struck me as important. Who is this girl and why is she upset enough to run screaming and crying? Is it someone who was close to Laura that we don't know about? From the perspective we got it seemed like Bobby, Donna and James were the only people she was really close with. Obviously this girl could just represent the shock and terror her murder had on her classmates and the community and that's why it's used repeatedly. Still I find it mysterious
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:40 pm

I've been wondering why our new superhero, the Green Glove, sounded more like an encyclopedia than a real person when he was explaining to James what a "jobsworth" is and guess what, his explanation was copied word for word from wikipedia...

Image

(Freddie's explanation for comparison: "That is a person who delights in acting in an obstructive or otherwise unhelpful manner.")

So, is this supposed to tell us something about his character (he likes to use quotes, he is fake, he is a copy, ...) or were Frost and Lynch too lazy to come up with their own definition? :roll:
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ScarFace32
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:02 pm

I actually love Freddie and his green glove. I wish his story had been that the Fireman came to him in a dream though rather than he got sucked into a vortex. It would have been more realistic
psyifinotic
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby psyifinotic » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:19 pm

Enig wrote:
bastia wrote:Anyone who thinks that the switch from '3' to '15' in the naido's room means that cooper will come back in part 15? The next one

It changes from 15 to 3. Kinda doubt it signifies anything about Coop's awakening, at least not in that way.

even if he does will he be SNAP back to 100%? or just functioning? obv. nobody knows yet just speculate


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pinballmars
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby pinballmars » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:22 pm

I like the green glove guy, too. It's absurd and campy. I've seen a few people groan over it ("What? A SUPERHERO in Twin Peaks?"), but I have little doubt that Lynch and Frost are going to make very unconventional use of him.

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