Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return

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Novalis
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:46 pm

sylvia_north wrote:https://diane.libsyn.com/twin-peaks-the-return-part-12 has an excellent discussion of women 13:00 - 18:00 about, French Girl as the jump off, 25:00 for Sarah


Nice link. I think I'll be listening to more of these.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby starmand » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:18 pm

This article is relevant to the thread: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/ ... tered.html

I don't entirely agree with it but I'm curious to see what other people in here think.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:52 am

starmand wrote:This article is relevant to the thread: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/ ... tered.html

I don't entirely agree with it but I'm curious to see what other people in here think.


Well the first part of the article really drives home just how peripheral women are to the men in this show, I'll give it that. There are good points made on the exceptional character of Beverly Paige; here was a wasted opportunity for Lynch to redeem himself if ever there was one.

However, the article doesn't really go into much depth about the representation of marriage vs. the reality of marriage as an institution, seemingly taking it as read that we can start off from the premise that marriage is and can be an unproblematic norm in reality and that TPTR should do something more to reflect that. What I'm saying here is: yes, TPTR does present an unfortunately retrograde vision of women as fishwives and embittered spouses (while elevating eternal bachelors like Cole) but where is the analysis of marriage as a patriarchal institution which, frequently, reproduces patriarchy in the very way that it produces women as 'wives' in the real world?

I can't help wondering if a better angle on this would come from asking, if Lynch has a more-or-less occulted but critical view on marriage as typifying a kind of prison for women, then to what extent are his representations critiques of marriage that can be appropriated and rendered useful by women viewers? Where are the women that have overcome their entrapment and shaken free of loveless relationships? We have perhaps two examples at present: Nadine and Norma. But these are very poor examples of emancipation from dysfunctional relationships, since on both counts the characters are written as fleeing towards other men they miraculously adore (Jacoby and Ed) without so much as a moment of introspection and reconnection with a wider female community.

At the same time it has to be asked to what extent Lynchian representations of unmarried women, such as they are, work to counter the idea that an unmarried women is deficient, or to be seen as in-search-of-marriage.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:21 am

Personally I disagree that Janey's transformation into sweet is shallow- the writing is- but it works for Janey, who is under a spell of sorts it seems being in Dougie's direct orbit, supported by all the Arthurian names in their neighborhood, and whose unstable temperament is relatable, considering. She might be the only character whose affection passes for depth, unless you count the established Norma-Ed Andy-Lucy relationships. Characterization has failed all over the place in TR. Using the same explanation for Audrey also though makes it redundant.

TR's unstable victims of patriarchy, and violent, helpless men, even Cole the lecherous buffoon is helpless to his grabbiness and leering, reflect the nightmarish "cultural dream" and the negative prison of the marketplace that Lynch likes to discuss, to apply Nochimson's interpretation of favorite Lynch themes, with marriage being as an aspect of the marketplace. The institution, like all institutions, are built on the lie of certainties. The mutual illusion of Janey and "Dougie Jones" is a strange version of the shared illusion under which many marriages suffer, and thrive - who really knows anyone? The fragmented, bleak, sinister marketplace of marriage and women under the influence of the black corn. Twin Peaks = the black hole.

If there's some grander cosmic theme L/F are building to, they are definitely using women as a shortcut, as props of negativity.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:47 am

Speaking of postmodernism, Derrida and Foucault were both members of pro-pedophile organizations that wanted to lower and eradicate age of consent laws. Foucault believed in nonabusive pedophilia. Complete access to children. It is not a mistake or misdirection that postmodernism has led us right here. The material reality of women warped into a taboo means of excitement, always justified by art or entitlement of some kind. Violating the atom itself. There's another thread talking about Lynch petitioning to "free Polanski." :?

The one scary female character is gone, so is the obnoxious Audrey (1.) Two confirmed rapes. Diane but not really Diane getting shot at close range multiple times was disturbing, at least no blood.
I hope that when Dougie aka Cooper (T1) for tulpa returns, Janey-E will be changed by the positivity of Cooper's influence and better equipped to handle her situation, or that Dougie (T2) will be a better person if their quantum reality bubble is destined to continue.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby 4815162342 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:50 am

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know exactly who banished this to its own thread?
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:58 am

4815162342 wrote:Just out of curiosity, does anyone know exactly who banished this to its own thread?


Mod consensus under pressure I think.

It's interesting the microcosm of the main defense that 'it's just reflecting reality, duh' and 'it's not one artist's problem so it's beyond questioning.' These are such 'freethinking' concepts that contribute to such a chilling influence, not to mention the verbal abuse. Discussion enders. Art meets the demands of the culture, and sets the demands. The hegemony is strong in the film world, and the world.

Maybe scholarly types will refer to this thread for future TP publications. 8)
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:13 am

I think a few people claimed that the gender discussion was off-topic, even though it was about scenes from the episode for which the thread was. Besides, there have been longer off-topic discussions about other things, but no one was bothered by that.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby 4815162342 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:20 am

sylvia_north wrote:
4815162342 wrote:Just out of curiosity, does anyone know exactly who banished this to its own thread?


Mod consensus under pressure I think.

It's interesting the microcosm of the main defense that 'it's just reflecting reality, duh' and 'it's not one artist's problem so it's beyond questioning.' These are such 'freethinking' concepts that contribute to such a chilling influence, not to mention the verbal abuse. Discussion enders. Art meets the demands of the culture, and sets the demands. The hegemony is strong in the film world, and the world.

Maybe scholarly types will refer to this thread for future TP publications. 8)


Ok, so all the mods are responsible. I'm not bothered by the pressure, I'm bothered by the caving in.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby oldforce » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:33 am

The mods have been p reactionary in general since I joined.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:57 am

4815162342 wrote:Ok, so all the mods are responsible. I'm not bothered by the pressure, I'm bothered by the caving in.


I have no idea, was just guessing. "No politics" is one of the board rules but it's impossible to have art that points to real world problems caused by real world systems and decipher that particular message without striking nerves. It just illustrates the point really.

ps I like Chantal having angry rag munchies. That worked for me, I dunno
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:50 pm

This is a 300+ message discussion. Can't see how it would have been comprehensible lost inside another thread.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby 4815162342 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:55 pm

douglasb wrote:This is a 300+ message discussion. Can't see how it would have been comprehensible lost inside another thread.

Well, a large portion of it was discussing whether or not it should get its own thread, and whether or not the topic is worth discussing at all. I think if you filter all that out, it would fit ok, spread among the episodes.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:30 pm

Maybe I need to re-watch first - - but something about Belushi's Mitchum character snapping at Candie for his drink set me on edge. There everyone was laughing and bonhomie and fuzzy-warms when he belts out "Where's my drink, Candie??!" His expression as screen-cap'd has been held up for laffs elsewhere but that moment for me kind of gave me pause, for Candie if that'd been me I would have felt some heat of humiliation.

It was a Bloody Mary, perhaps by chance, but I'd speculate on its significance per Sarah's favorite drink in an other topic.

Mainly: the hyper-new-reality for all DougieCoop or RealCoop's latest phase feels -- much as last week when some of us began wondering whether Big Ed's reunion with Norma following 'permission' from Nadine might've played out in his head --- almost Too Good To Be True. If my hunch bears out, and not all is what it seems, I'm just for the record here stating my misgivings began with that unnecessarily contemptful directive at Candie. "Heart of Gold" banter wouldn't be the first time Dale concocted a ruse, since we're just guessing what and who is in his sights next; and I'm thinking how he bait & switched out Leland' to the interrogation room in S2 but skillfully kept a straight face as he "you're under arrest!"ed Ben Horne.

The Mitchum brothers have been for me mostly entertaining and source of much needed humor so I was dismayed seeing this glimpse of latent bully behavior & I wish it'll be just that, a glimpse and inadvertent at that.
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Re: Gender in Twin Peaks: The Return (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:22 am

Framed_Angel wrote:The Mitchum brothers have been for me mostly entertaining and source of much needed humor so I was dismayed seeing this glimpse of latent bully behavior & I wish it'll be just that, a glimpse and inadvertent at that.


Their brutal flooring and kicking of an employee wasn't enough to convince you of their latent bully behaviour? See, this is why I am so over this whole mobster-with-a-heart-of-gold BS. I hate the way TV thinks it can just recontextualise this crap as being about family values and emotional struggles. Violent criminal is violent. Eff-you-cee-kay the Sopranos and all that glam sentimentality. :oops:
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?

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