Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[sylvia_north]

Btw, out of genuine curiosity and because I don't recall seeing it referenced here, surprisingly: how did the Log Lady's last scene resonate with you guys?

Can't separate Catherine and Margaret, having met her several times. I guess dedicating the episode to Margaret says that was the idea. I respect breaking the death taboo. Dying and death are so much sanitized and avoided we're almost disabled when it comes down to handling it. It took me a minute to get what they were doing with headless Briggs, but I've also spent enough time chatting with Don to know he had a great sense of humor. The realness was a brave and reverent decision. I felt we were all sharing in their goodbye.

(...)the only things I really don't like is Little Nicky and Nadine at high school (but the later moments when she starts going out with Mike I find rather nice). Evelyn Marsh sort of sucks but I have a soft spot for this totally useless subplot, I definitely love Ben's civil war and the other thing I like a whole lot is Thomas Eckhardt and Josie in the knob While the Widnom/Annie thing is very far from the excellence of the 'who killed Laura Palmer' mystery which drove the first 16 episodes, it still is OK for me. (...)

I'm an Evelyn and JJW fan, no shame. I think they're refreshing. Outsiders and the outside world. Civil War and the Packard Mill Conspiracy are ACES in my book. Love Annie and Windom.
Return is 5000% better than Little Nicky. Like Hamburger Helper versus Wagyu. Stephen Gyllenhaal took the blame for the thought bubble. Godawful.

[nimeoa]

As the show begins its death throes and my expectations sink farther into the abyss to the point of becoming non-existent, I find that my biggest issue now is that I just don't care. The show spent 15 hours flinging mud in my eyes and giving me the middle finger, and now I can't be bothered to care or even wonder about how this will all end. Episode 16 could start with Cooper being pronounced dead with a hard cut to his grave stone and I wouldn't give a shit. I have zero attachment to any of the characters and their fates mean absolutely nothing to me. Gordon gets sucked into the black lodge? Good, fuck 'em. Tammy vanishes like Chester and Phillip? Fantastic, good riddance. Mr C.? Well we know absolutely nothing about him, what he wants, why he wants it, etc. So we can just cut him out of the show and that'd be just dandy. Shelly, Gersten, Red, Steven, Jacoby, Nadine and a myriad of others could all die in a fire at the Great Northern and that'd be just swell.

I hope this shit ends with James, Green Glove Guy, Bobby and Carl Rodd saying "man, fuck Twin Peaks" and then they go fight crime around the world.

[Venus]

As the show begins its death throes and my expectations sink farther into the abyss to the point of becoming non-existent, I find that my biggest issue now is that I just don't care. The show spent 15 hours flinging mud in my eyes and giving me the middle finger, and now I can't be bothered to care or even wonder about how this will all end. Episode 16 could start with Cooper being pronounced dead with a hard cut to his grave stone and I wouldn't give a shit. I have zero attachment to any of the characters and their fates mean absolutely nothing to me. Gordon gets sucked into the black lodge? Good, fuck 'em. Tammy vanishes like Chester and Phillip? Fantastic, good riddance. Mr C.? Well we know absolutely nothing about him, what he wants, why he wants it, etc. So we can just cut him out of the show and that'd be just dandy. Shelly, Gersten, Red, Steven, Jacoby, Nadine and a myriad of others could all die in a fire at the Great Northern and that'd be just swell.

I hope this shit ends with James, Green Glove Guy, Bobby and Carl Rodd saying "man, fuck Twin Peaks" and then they go fight crime around the world.

Do you know, I've been examining my feelings about this of late and yes, I feel the same (probably minus the swearing lol). I think thats why I've not been really bothered about posting too much on here. I went through so many stages with it: excitement, anger, disappointment, frustration, resignation, acceptance that it is what it is. I actually don't care and don't want to spend too much time on it because it is just not that important to me. It's a take it or leave it feeling. Apathy. Surely when it comes to 'art' as some say this is, apathy is the very worst thing ever as a reaction.

[The Gazebo]

As the show begins its death throes and my expectations sink farther into the abyss to the point of becoming non-existent, I find that my biggest issue now is that I just don't care. The show spent 15 hours flinging mud in my eyes and giving me the middle finger, and now I can't be bothered to care or even wonder about how this will all end. Episode 16 could start with Cooper being pronounced dead with a hard cut to his grave stone and I wouldn't give a shit. I have zero attachment to any of the characters and their fates mean absolutely nothing to me. Gordon gets sucked into the black lodge? Good, fuck 'em. Tammy vanishes like Chester and Phillip? Fantastic, good riddance. Mr C.? Well we know absolutely nothing about him, what he wants, why he wants it, etc. So we can just cut him out of the show and that'd be just dandy. Shelly, Gersten, Red, Steven, Jacoby, Nadine and a myriad of others could all die in a fire at the Great Northern and that'd be just swell.

I hope this shit ends with James, Green Glove Guy, Bobby and Carl Rodd saying "man, fuck Twin Peaks" and then they go fight crime around the world.

Yes, after clinging on for dear life, hoping for an improvement while making serious efforts to connect with whatever the show gave me, I became indifferent to it all a few weeks ago. And just like in your case, sarcasm and resentment began creeping in. It's a shame we've gotten to this point. But here we are.

If the original show jumped the shark after Leland's death, this season even the shark has been dressed in a leather jacket.

[John Justice Wheeler]

Yes, after clinging on for dear life, hoping for an improvement while making serious efforts to connect with whatever the show gave me, I became indifferent to it all a few weeks ago.

I became indifferent to it long before that but I am less so now, these days. Still, it comes and goes. I hold out hope that the show will go out on a high note, the highest yet. It needs to.

[boske]

This thread represents a tiny minority of TR viewers, myself included. The large majority out there, for one reason or another, have no (or no significant or profound) issues with the Return, it is already on a high note for them. So even if its keeps up the current pace, it will be a success for them. For that reason alone I would not expect a dramatic upswing in quality, maybe it is or was just a wishful thinking on part of this small group.

But if it were to happen, maybe more people will start asking the question what the point of the Dougie detour has been, was there some sense in it, was having Dougie in it for 14 parts time well spent? Myself, I am winding down my commitment to TR, having unsubscribed from almost all podcasts, stopped following a bunch of TP Twitter handles, and am out of it all except in name only. Hopefully in ten days or so when it is over we can then do a comprehensive postmortem analysis here and call it a day.

[douglasb]

I've said this already somewhere on the board but I don't think TLL's last appearance added anything more than her first. It was blunter for sure, but we'd already had a 'Good night, Margaret' or a 'Good bye, Margaret' in earlier episodes and these will inevitably seem smaller on further viewings.

I don't dislike TR massively but, by George, when we get a new episode I'm not blown away reevaluating earlier episodes in the light of new information. Indeed the opposite may be true - new episodes are making previous ones worse.

[Here Comes That Bob]

As the show begins its death throes and my expectations sink farther into the abyss to the point of becoming non-existent, I find that my biggest issue now is that I just don't care. The show spent 15 hours flinging mud in my eyes and giving me the middle finger, and now I can't be bothered to care or even wonder about how this will all end. Episode 16 could start with Cooper being pronounced dead with a hard cut to his grave stone and I wouldn't give a shit. I have zero attachment to any of the characters and their fates mean absolutely nothing to me. Gordon gets sucked into the black lodge? Good, fuck 'em. Tammy vanishes like Chester and Phillip? Fantastic, good riddance. Mr C.? Well we know absolutely nothing about him, what he wants, why he wants it, etc. So we can just cut him out of the show and that'd be just dandy. Shelly, Gersten, Red, Steven, Jacoby, Nadine and a myriad of others could all die in a fire at the Great Northern and that'd be just swell.

I hope this shit ends with James, Green Glove Guy, Bobby and Carl Rodd saying "man, fuck Twin Peaks" and then they go fight crime around the world.

Wow, you just accurately described how I feel as well. Complete apathy towards these nondimensional characters is one of the return's biggest problems.

[Gabriel]

Put it this way: when the new show started, I was single and getting out of the city every weekend I could, but I would watch the show religiously on the Monday.

By the halfway mark on the show, I was no longer single. I've mostly been a bit less sharp-edged about the show as a result, because I've had more exciting things going on. But I've also become even less concerned with the show I frequently don't even bother to watch it until the Tuesday or Wednesday and I don't worry if my parents or girlfriend call and I have to break off half way through. I couldn't make head nor tale what the junkie bloke was babbling on about with the redhead girl last week, because the extractor fan was running while I was cooking a steak. I only realised it was Gersten (Alicia Witt) when I came to this site. I rewatched the scene later on my iPad, wearing earphones. I still couldn't figure what he was babbling on about and I no longer care. I don't give a stuff if he's dead or alive either. Come to think about it, I don't give a stuff about Gersten or his junkie wife either.

What I feel I've been watching is a bunch of random, disconnected scenes for 15 weeks, with actors mostly seeming disconnected from the material and production values that mostly make the show look like a charity telethon with scenes that ought to have a donations ticker running at the bottom of the screen. When I watched Part 8, my reaction was basically 'Ah, that's where most of the show's budget probably went!' Indeed, I suspect Part 8 is what the entire show is about and is the only bit Lynch was really interested in making.

Otherwise, I feel like I'm watching a first draft rough edit... Loads of material feels like it belongs in a deleted scenes package and has no place in the final product. Most of the Andy and Lucy stuff belongs there, including Michael Cera's bit. Most scenes feel excessively dragged out. Margaret's death scene, for example, could have been even more heartbreaking, had it been more tightly edited.

I'm giving the show a bit of a pass because it's Lynch and he's superb in it – probably because he's the only bugger who knows what on earth's going on in it! But the show is an embarrassment to sit through. It mostly looks like an amateur/semi-pro home movie. Production values are in the toilet compared with the network show and FWWM. The worst thing about the new Twin Peaks, ironically, is that it's been made by its creators. I kind of wish we'd had a Harley Peyton/Robert Engels series and Lynch had only been involved acting as Gordon Cole.

I don't care for the 'It's art' excuse. I look at a lot of modern art and find it pretty contemptible anyway.

Look, if people genuinely get their rocks off watching this stuff, then good for them. For me, the show is a mess. It's a huge disappointment as a continuation of Twin Peaks and a mildly amusing collection of random scenes masquerading as a David Lynch TV show. The gushing praise from critics pretty much encapsulates the 'Brush Brush' poem analogy. If nothing else, my Now TV subscription has meant I got to watch Legion and True Detective, so it's not all bad!

[referendum]

@boske

maybe more people will start asking the question what the point of the Dougie detour has been, was there some sense in it,

something that occurred to me the other day about this. TP 1 and 2 were concerned with who killed Laura Palmer as the central theme - yet we only saw glimpses of her on videos or photos. We explored the world she inhabited,Twin Peaks, in which she was the absent centre.
Dale Cooper, trapped inside Dougie in this sort of limbo or half-life between the Black Lodge and returning to himself, and Mr C running about causing mayhem, is the absent centre of this series - the gap here being filled by the doppelganger in the same way that in S1/2 the Laura-shaped hole left Leland/ Bob to take centre stage.
The difference here is that S 1 and 2 once Leland/ Bob were removed there was no-one to replace the hole they left so the series had no focus or direction after that. Here, in TP 3, there is someone to replace the doppelganger and Dougie - there is Agent Dale Cooper.

Is it a co-incidence that both series were constructed around this idea of an absent centre?

[boske]

@boske

maybe more people will start asking the question what the point of the Dougie detour has been, was there some sense in it,

something that occurred to me the other day about this. TP 1 and 2 were concerned with who killed Laura Palmer as the central theme - yet we only saw glimpses of her on videos or photos. We explored the world she inhabited,Twin Peaks, in which she was the absent centre.
Dale Cooper, trapped inside Dougie in this sort of limbo or half-life between the Black Lodge and returning to himself, and Mr C running about causing mayhem, is the absent centre of this series - the gap here being filled by the doppelganger in the same way that in S1/2 the Laura-shaped hole left Leland/ Bob to take centre stage.
The difference here is that S 1 and 2 once Leland/ Bob were removed there was no-one to replace the hole they left so the series had no focus or direction after that. Here, in TP 3, there is someone to replace the doppelganger and Dougie - there is Agent Dale Cooper.

Is it a co-incidence that both series were constructed around this idea of an absent centre?

Well, there for sure are some parallels, particularly in wanting to continue not revealing Laura's killer or similarly not wanting to have Dougie wake up into Cooper. But the old show to me was interesting, we got to explore Laura based on her friends' and acquaintances' memories of her: Harold, Donna, James, Tremonds, Jacoby, etc. All that is missing now. Nobody is concerned about Cooper's fate, other than Cole cracking jokes how "Coop flew the coop", etc. If I was managing some people investigating paranormal cases, I'd certainly show more interest in their fates should they keep disappearing.

At this point we may have been better off without Dougie. Keep Dale in the lodge until part 15/16 and get him out of there for a showdown. We may be getting exactly this now, and I think it would have worked better than what we got with Dougie. Three hours of Coop would still be enough (that is more than FWWM, right?). I would not be opposed to Dougie so much if his story was more compelling and not IMO used to tease the audience that he was about to wake up "any time now". I mean, why not tell us what it means to manufacture a human being, how does he function, what was he like. We saw none of that, just some absurd material. Not to say that it did not have its place in the show. But 13/14 part of that material is stretching it too much and it overstayed its welcome. Two parts tops may have been enough for that.

[nimeoa]

Do you know, I've been examining my feelings about this of late and yes, I feel the same (probably minus the swearing lol).

Yeah... Looking back, I apologize for the profanity, haha. Long day at work and venting my frustrations about the show as I haven't much to look forward to this Sunday. Except maybe a really cool hipster synthesizer band at The Roadhouse (ugh....).

[boske]

Remember that scene when Andy went to talk to that guy about the murder/running down of the kid, and was told that he (Andy) had to leave but that he'd meet him at 4:30 that day. What was that about?! Did that get everybody's hope up, didn't it? 4:30 and may get to see Linda! And then Andy goes and waits and nothing happens. Kinda reminds of the show in the nutshell. Plus we got to see Andy having a Rolex, so yes, "he must have been into the drug running, how else would he get it". Nope, the Fireman picks him up instead, forget about the drug running. Honestly, this show is appalling, it is probably the worst thing I have ever seen (never bothered with Battlefield Earth and saw about five minutes of Gigli).

And this?!

[referendum]

@boske
"Coop flew the coop"
you mentioned that joke before once as a sign of how much crasser TP TR is that S1/2.
I re-watched S2 last week. somewhere around ep 3 or 4, someone ( I think Truman? or Albert?) makes the same joke, i think about Jean Renault: ' he flew the coop, Coop'. The TP TR joke was a quote

[boske]

@boske
"Coop flew the coop"
you mentioned that joke before once as a sign of how much crasser TP TR is that S1/2.
I re-watched S2 last week. somewhere around ep 3 or 4, someone ( I think Truman? or Albert?) makes the same joke, i think about Jean Renault: ' he flew the coop, Coop'. The TP TR joke was a quote

You got me there, I did not remember it being said. I am a fan of each and every Renault in all the shows thus far, the guys are great. Yes, they do not really speak with a Québecois accent but still great nonetheless.