Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:14 pm

(posted by Reddit user kerszr1) --

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:15 pm

When talking about the FX in Twin Peaks, it's important to understand that avant garde artists like surrealists and absurdists often don't value realistic representation. They intentionally value an artificial aesthetic because it challenges and subverts people's preconceptions of what realistic representation is or should be.


that is a fancy way of saying lynch likes animating his paintings. :)
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:20 pm

whoisalhedges wrote:
referendum wrote:
Yep, I'm buyin this.


quick, let's agree before someone else finds another way of saying exactly the same thing which someone else would have put differently :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've found agreement to be pretty rare here... maybe the mods should lock this thread now to keep it safe. ;)


While we're at it, could somebody explain the coordinates and how the hell Hasting's secretary comes into play (besides being a plot device that I'm not even convinced was required to get Ray the coordinates)? I'd like to get some uniform agreement on this, too, prior to Sunday night! :)
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Esselgee » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:23 pm

Wonderful & Strange wrote:But these sorts of assumptions are obviously unjustified because who can say with any authority what looks realistic or "proper" in a fictional dimensional space like the Black Lodge? The closest authorities are Lynch and Frost.


What about the effects done for Sarah Palmer removing her face? That happened not in any lodge but in the real world and it was truly bad. It reminded me of the old music video by The Cars ("You Might Think") where he removed his face to reveal images inside his head and that was cheesy back in the mid-80s.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:25 pm

referendum wrote:
Yep, I'm buyin this.


quick, let's agree before someone else finds another way of saying exactly the same thing which someone else would have put differently :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


And I honestly had never thought about the angle of the cocaine/dog leg/etc. being in place to frame good Coop if Mr C's plan had backfired. Makes sense, I like it.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:26 pm

cgs027 wrote:
referendum wrote:
I could see the argument that Dougie was solely created in order to go back into the lodge instead of Mr. C (ignoring the whole swap idea). However, the presence and timing of the assassins indicates otherwise


''someone manufactured you.... for a purpose... but i think now that's been fulfilled''

'' it has'' ?

AAAAAAAAGH
<disappears>


Yep, I could see interpreting that "purpose" to be having Dougie getting pulled back into the lodge instead or Mr. C, so that he could continue his shenanigans in the real world. Nothing to do with Coop swapping with either of them. Again, I don't agree that the switch-out wasn't a known angle of this plan, but I can see this POV. However, the assassins indicate that Mr. C expected someone to come out in Vegas. If he expected Dougie to get sucked in, period, then end of story, no reason for this hit to be scheduled for that time.


What if Cooper asked Mike to create the second Dougie (this time out of goodCoop rather than badCoop) so that Dougie v.2 is pulled back together with badCoop (as they both have to go back, which is two birds with one stone!) so that he can live forever with Janey-E and Sonny Jim?


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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:27 pm

Esselgee wrote:
Wonderful & Strange wrote:But these sorts of assumptions are obviously unjustified because who can say with any authority what looks realistic or "proper" in a fictional dimensional space like the Black Lodge? The closest authorities are Lynch and Frost.


What about the effects done for Sarah Palmer removing her face? That happened not in any lodge but in the real world and it was truly bad. It reminded me of the old music video by The Cars ("You Might Think") where he removed his face to reveal images inside his head and that was cheesy back in the mid-80s.


It's the same assumption -- that supernatural representation ought to fit your definition of "good" and "real."

Lynch clearly values a more avant garde (abstract, artificial) take on supernatural representation, and representation in general.

People need to understand that "realistic" representation changes over time. There is no one single form of realism. The term itself can be defined in multiple ways.

For example, many here find traditional plots realistic, but plots themselves are not realistic at all (life doesn't have a plot).
Last edited by Wonderful & Strange on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:29 pm

Esselgee wrote:
Wonderful & Strange wrote:But these sorts of assumptions are obviously unjustified because who can say with any authority what looks realistic or "proper" in a fictional dimensional space like the Black Lodge? The closest authorities are Lynch and Frost.


What about the effects done for Sarah Palmer removing her face? That happened not in any lodge but in the real world and it was truly bad. It reminded me of the old music video by The Cars ("You Might Think") where he removed his face to reveal images inside his head and that was cheesy back in the mid-80s.


I absolutely adored that effect, it made me feel all the right kinds of wrong inside, but -- as they say -- YMMV.
Maybe I should check this Cars clip out.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:33 pm

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Esselgee » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:37 pm

Saturn's child wrote:
Esselgee wrote:
Wonderful & Strange wrote:But these sorts of assumptions are obviously unjustified because who can say with any authority what looks realistic or "proper" in a fictional dimensional space like the Black Lodge? The closest authorities are Lynch and Frost.


What about the effects done for Sarah Palmer removing her face? That happened not in any lodge but in the real world and it was truly bad. It reminded me of the old music video by The Cars ("You Might Think") where he removed his face to reveal images inside his head and that was cheesy back in the mid-80s.


I absolutely adored that effect, it made me feel all the right kinds of wrong inside, but -- as they say -- YMMV.
Maybe I should check this Cars clip out.


Here it is. You won't believe it, but it happens at the 2:53 timestamp!

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:39 pm

Oh my god I LOVE that. Seriously!
I'm back in style!
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:41 pm

what if this whole series is really just a massive complicated excuse for male duplicity?

ep #18
annie: you shagged Janey- E.
<naomi watts swoons>
dale cooper: '' I did. But i wasn't myself at the time. Let's move on''
< heather graham swoons>
< lara flynn boyle hisses / flounces>
< everyone hugs>
all: tubby schmoo! tubby hug!
(voice over): the twin peakies wuv each other very much!
walter : don't make me puke.
bob: if you do pass it over here, i'll eat it.
the noo noo : wtf? don't i get a look in?
<disappears and turns into teapot>
Last edited by referendum on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:43 pm

Esselgee wrote:Here it is. You won't believe it, but it happens at the 2:53 timestamp!


:lol:
This is the best, thank you! :D
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:45 pm

referendum wrote:what if this whole series is really just a massive complicated excuse for male duplicity?

ep #18
annie: you shagged Janey- E.
<naomi watts swoons>
dale cooper: '' I did. But i wasn't myself at the time. Let's move on''
< heather graham swoons>
< lara flynn boyle hisses / flounces>
< everyone hugs>
all: tubby schmoo! tubby hug!
(voice over): the twin peakies wuv each other very much!
the noo noo : wtf? don't i get a look in?
<disappears and turns into teapot>


Don't know if I understand that completely, but totally! "You shagged Janey-E / Audrey / Diane." Coop: "I did, but I wasn't myself at the time."
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:47 pm

Don't know if I understand that completely, but totally! "You shagged Janey-E / Audrey / Diane." Coop: "I did, but I wasn't myself at the time."


exactly, classic get out clause. The rest was just bollox to distract you :D
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