Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

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EZamor
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby EZamor » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:04 am

FlyingSquirrel wrote:Has it been established whether Frost spent much time on the set and if he was involved in the editing process at all?


Well, I've seen/read several interviews/panels in which the actors mention Mark Frost being on set, and helping them out with the material. There's a Matt Lillard
interview that stands out the most in my mind, because he seemed to have no clue what he was doing until Mark explained a few things to him. http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/twin-peaks-the-return-matthew-lillard-interview.html

But Sabrina Southerland indicates that Mark Frost was not around during post-production. At some point after filming had started, Mark left in order to finish working on TSHOTP. Filming took place between Sep 2015-Apr 2016. Mark's book was released Oct 2016.
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:41 pm

IcedOver wrote:I'm also not familiar with Frost's novels, but for certain Freddie is his creation. Frost was one of a team of writers on the 2005 and 2007 "Fantastic Four" movies, so obviously he has at least some connection to comic book properties. Freddie's dialogue in the Great Northern scene just doesn't feel like something Lynch would have written.


Somewhat surprisingly, in a recent EW interview, Lynch stated that the green glove was a longtime idea of his which finally found a home in Twin Peaks! To what extent Frost's fingerprints are on it too I don't know but that was a striking admission. (Sorry if this info is already in the thread, I'm working my way through it slowly.)
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:59 pm

N. Needleman wrote:I am not convinced Freddie is not all Lynch. The long shaggy dog story sounded like him to me, not Frost.


Sounds like you called it!
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:05 pm

baxter wrote:
Since we know that Frost kicked the process off with some "narrative threads", I'm intrigued to know what these were.


Oh God, me too. And even more so...

baxter wrote:I hope that Frost will be forthcoming in the coming years in discussing the show.


^This.

I love Lynch's "let the mystery be" attitude but...I often find behind-the-scenes context incredibly helpful. With FWWM in particular, I'm not sure I would have even noticed several hugely important things about the movie with those assists (provided usually by actors rather than him in that case).
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby AgentEcho » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:01 pm

I'm going to read Frost's next book, but I have to admit I might be looking forward to his promotional interviews more.
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby AgentEcho » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:55 am

The Tammy Preston character is interesting to look at if you are trying to parse out the differences between Frost and Lynch, if only because she was the one character featured fairly prominently in both TSHoTP and the new season. The book was written after the scripts were but most of us who read the book were introduced to the character first through the book. Other than having the same name and profession they may as well be different characters given how different they come across in both works. It almost seems as though Frost pointedly wrote a different version of the character, which isn't out of place in Twin Peaks, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just how Frost would have written the character. (everything about the character as she appears in the show, from the casting to the fixation on her physical appearance, seems all Lynch).
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:16 pm

Without getting into the context, which would violate forum rules, it’s relevant to note this tweet from Mark today.
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claaa7
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby claaa7 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:56 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Without getting into the context, which would violate forum rules, it’s relevant to note this tweet from Mark today.


the whole Jacoby / Dr Amp thing feels so much more Frost than Lynch.. from my observations Lynch has never been very interested in politics. other examples that struck me like that is the whole comment on gun culture and kids taking after their parents in ep. 11 and Janey's speech about the dark age we live in.
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:52 am

claaa7 wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Without getting into the context, which would violate forum rules, it’s relevant to note this tweet from Mark today.


the whole Jacoby / Dr Amp thing feels so much more Frost than Lynch.. from my observations Lynch has never been very interested in politics. other examples that struck me like that is the whole comment on gun culture and kids taking after their parents in ep. 11 and Janey's speech about the dark age we live in.


Also a few low-key references to the fact that TP and the surrounding area are struggling economically
(e.g., Walter mentions this is in Part 13). I expect TFD to address the Mill closing and its ramifications on the town, something Lynch obviously wasn’t interested in dwelling on.
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:02 pm

claaa7 wrote:[quote="Mr. Reindeer"... and Janey's speech about the dark age we live in.


I think this one is Lynch, at least for me it has echoes of Mr.Eddy's driving instructions.
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:48 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
claaa7 wrote:[quote="Mr. Reindeer"... and Janey's speech about the dark age we live in.


I think this one is Lynch, at least for me it has echoes of Mr.Eddy's driving instructions.


You may be right, but I think the very specific Occupy reference with Janey-E referencing the 99% pegs it as at least partly Mark’s baby. But I’m with claaa7, I think that scene, with its derogatory references to the big banks, feels very Mark.
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby David Locke » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:24 am

I didn't care for those more politically-charged or Relevant moments in S3. They definitely felt more Frost than Lynch but regardless of their genesis it's just too didactic and trying too hard to take a stab at "saying something" about certain hot-button issues... but while remaining vague enough to not actually say much at all. It's hard to think of this kind of material in other Lynch-directed works, and even the original series I would say benefited from (like our dear old forum) a lack of political engagement. I'm not advocating this shutdown of the political in life or anything - I just think some works of art, like Twin Peaks, are better, and truer to themselves, when they don't attempt any kind of commentary on cultural/political issues. The original series had that oft-noted "out-of-time" feel what with the mix of 50s and early 60s and 80s/early 90s, and it certainly seldom if ever broke the magic of that by trying to remind us it's 1990/91, or whatever. Note, though, that there's a big difference between these broad, didactic Frostian references and something like FWWM or Episode 14, say, which by their nature do force us to confront important issues that are sadly relevant just as much then as now - incest, of course, but also just the whole facade of civility concealing a monster in so many upstanding white men who are considered "pillars of the community," etc. For instance, whether intentional or not I think Leland's trial and kid-gloves treatment in Episode 11/12 is a good example of this, where he gets the benefit of the doubt "just" for being a professionally successful white male patriarch who's admired in his town. So you can say or rather imply that kind of thing, as Lynch did, without going into preachy sociopolitical contrivances as in some of S3.

Also, I'll say it again - I absolutely loathe Dr. Amp/S3 Jacoby, a character who was amusing at first but had his sole joke beaten into the ground and thus he ended up a far less interesting character than in S1 and S2. Hell, I'd rather watch Jacoby treat Super-Nadine's "condition" in mid-late S2 than watch his irritating one-note InfoWars huckster act, which might have been fine if its good intentions translated into something funnier or fresher.
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:35 am

I personally love the first Dr. Amp scene, primarily because Tamblyn is SO much fun to watch. And I do think TSHoTP does a good job of filling in Jacoby’s backstory and bridging the gap between original series Jacoby and S3 Jacoby so that it feels like a natural evolution of the character. Honestly, I was happy to see the character given a darker edge again after his whitewashed cuddly S2 incarnation. However, I do agree that they went back to the well too often by revisiting this shtick, with diminishing returns, and I really hate the reuse of a large chunk of the exact same monologue from an earlier Part. I know people have hypothesized that this was supposed to be some statement on the malleability of time and space (a la Sarah’s boxing match), but honestly it just feels lazy. None of this diminishes my love for that first Dr. Amp scene, though, with Jacoby apopleptically raving about açai berries.

Btw, since you referenced Alex Jones, it’s worth noting that Lynch did once upon a time endorse Loose Change. So who really knows how much of this material was Lynch vs. Frost after all.... :wink:
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby LateReg » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:56 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I personally love the first Dr. Amp scene, primarily because Tamblyn is SO much fun to watch. And I do think TSHoTP does a good job of filling in Jacoby’s backstory and bridging the gap between original series Jacoby and S3 Jacoby so that it feels like a natural evolution of the character. Honestly, I was happy to see the character given a darker edge again after his whitewashed cuddly S2 incarnation. However, I do agree that they went back to the well too often by revisiting this shtick, with diminishing returns, and I really hate the reuse of a large chunk of the exact same monologue from an earlier Part. I know people have hypothesized that this was supposed to be some statement on the malleability of time and space (a la Sarah’s boxing match), but honestly it just feels lazy. None of this diminishes my love for that first Dr. Amp scene, though, with Jacoby apopleptically raving about açai berries.

Btw, since you referenced Alex Jones, it’s worth noting that Lynch did once upon a time endorse Loose Change. So who really knows how much of this material was Lynch vs. Frost after all.... :wink:


Great thread!

At first I disliked the reuse of Dr. Amp's footage in Part 12, especially since it came in Part 12, which grew more and more frustrating as it went along, intentionally, and the reuse of that footage was the point of no return for me. However, on second viewing, I didn't mind the reuse at all, and now I love it. It makes perfect sense, even if you don't think of it in metaphysical terms, but merely in the way of people being stuck in one place, the nature of a personality like that repeating himself ad nauseum, etc, etc. Plus, the 9th circle of hell that he references which awaits Audrey, also standing still. These things all make perfect sense, and there are plenty of instances in The Return that folks have pointed out as "lazy," but which strike me as pointedly repetitious, such as the reused footage of Norma shuffling her bills. Also, for what it's worth, I now love the entirety of Part 12, which I think is one of the most beautiful Parts of the entire series, especially when watched in a binge.

I also wanted to re-address Freddy's green glove, since it's obviously a large sticking point for a lot of people. In a perfect Twin Peaks world, would I have wanted Freddy to abruptly defeat Bob? Absolutely not. Yet as you and I discussed, I thought the scene was executed with intense and audacious artistry, so I personally can't fault it for that, so I enjoy watching it in and of itself. But ultimately, it's another moment, like Jacoby's aforementioned scene, that I think you're meant to question and intellectualize. Isn't the point most likely the opposite of what we're shown: that there is no magical green glove out there that can just defeat the ultimate evil in the world? It can't be defeated, and that's the point of depicting its defeat in the most ridiculous, out of nowhere way possible. That's what I think/feel is going on there, and why it's brilliant.

I also would like to point out that I distinctly recall Mark Frost being asked how much of the entire production he was involved with, and he replied "40%." I don't have a source for this but I remember talking about it at length with a friend before the series started. To me, this doesn't mean that Lynch was involved with 60% of it, but rather that Lynch was involved 100% from top to bottom, whereas Frost was involved 40% of the time. So even though Lynch was involved all of the time, Frost has stated that he was involved in nearly half of the creative decisions, and that seems right to me since Lynch wears so many more hats. I agree with most of the speculation in this thread, especially from you Mr. Reindeer, and I see Frost's fingerprints all over this thing. The one thing I do wonder is whether Frost ever watched and came around on Mulholland Drive, given his previous comments and given that The Return's structure certainly resembles that of Mulholland Drive. In other words, was the screenplay also reminiscent of the structure of Mulholland Drive, or did Lynch rearrange the pieces in the editing room?
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Re: Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:04 am

I also remember the “40% Frost” figure, but I thought I remembered Lynch saying it! I haven’t mentioned it since I can’t find the source.

As to rearranging the pieces...the recently released BBFC specs on the Blu Ray seem to possibly indicate a lot more deleted scenes than any of us expected? I’m skeptical since Sabrina said most stuff got used...but it will be interesting to see what any “missing pieces” bring to the conversation of any potential script-to-screen structual changes.

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