POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

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In your opinion, what is the nature of Audrey’s situation in Part 12?

Poll ended at Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:37 am

She is in the “real” world of Twin Peaks.
57
38%
She is in a coma, and the scene takes place in her head.
29
19%
She is not in a coma, but she is dreaming.
2
1%
She is not in a coma or dreaming, but experiencing a psychological delusion.
40
26%
She is trapped in the Black Lodge.
7
5%
Audrey and Charlie are acting in or rehearsing for a movie or play (not Twin Peaks)
5
3%
Other (please explain in thread)
12
8%
 
Total votes: 152
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby laughingpinecone » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:31 am

This is the fifth character I see interpreted as Actually Audrey All Along and each one manages to be an even bigger stretch.
] The gathered are known by their faces of stone.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby powerleftist » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:06 pm

PsychoFox wrote:
powerleftist wrote:There is nothing conspicuous about it. Have you seen any pictures of her lately?

And so...? Do you think that Lynch/frost, and the show itself, are the kind to exclude an actor because of a strange face ?
Hopefully, there are not so superficial.

It's not a matter of looks. She is not recognizable anymore, and even worse, I doubt she is capable of good acting at this point.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Hester Prynne » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:49 pm

The real Diane was replaced with a tulpa and "housed" in Naido in the purple room, so it's not a stretch to conclude that the other woman Cooper encounters in the purple room might represent a similar fate for Audrey. She is the only other character whom we know had an encounter similar to that of Diane's with Mr. C.

I'm not dead set on the theory, but it's something that sort of stuck with me after watching Episode 3 for the first time before we learned more about Diane and Audrey later in the show. Our first view of AG was with her back turned to us, and my first thought was 'it's Audrey!' because the short haircut, red sweater, and fireplace reminded me of the 'Good morning, Colonel Cooper' scene. Interestingly, Cooper was talking to Diane on the tape recorder before being greeted by Audrey in front of the fireplace and there was even a reference to Ronette working at the perfume counter in their dialogue which triggered Audrey's idea to work at her Dad's store and ultimately One Eyed Jack's.

The choice to use Ronette's image is an interesting discussion. The use of her face is specific, but that's it. The rest of her appearance and shaky arm movements are left for interpretation. Is her face supposed to remind us of the second victim on the night of Laura's murder? Laura and Ronette will always be tied together through that event. Is it similar to Diane and Audrey's fates with Mr. C? I think it's difficult to pin any character to DKL and Frost's choice to use Ronette in this scene, but Diane and Audrey mirror Laura and Ronette, the victims from the original series. I like the idea of Ronette having always been Laura's doppel-Donna, but The Return is centered around Cooper's journey, and I'm not sure how Donna as AG would fit into this context.

With regards to Naido being portrayed by an actress of Asian descent, is there a connection to the decor in Diane's apartment and some of the fashion she wore?
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby ThumbsUp » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:35 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:The real Diane was replaced with a tulpa and "housed" in Naido in the purple room, so it's not a stretch to conclude that the other woman Cooper encounters in the purple room might represent a similar fate for Audrey. She is the only other character whom we know had an encounter similar to that of Diane's with Mr. C.

I'm not dead set on the theory, but it's something that sort of stuck with me after watching Episode 3 for the first time before we learned more about Diane and Audrey later in the show. Our first view of AG was with her back turned to us, and my first thought was 'it's Audrey!' because the short haircut, red sweater, and fireplace reminded me of the 'Good morning, Colonel Cooper' scene. Interestingly, Cooper was talking to Diane on the tape recorder before being greeted by Audrey in front of the fireplace and there was even a reference to Ronette working at the perfume counter in their dialogue which triggered Audrey's idea to work at her Dad's store and ultimately One Eyed Jack's.

The choice to use Ronette's image is an interesting discussion. The use of her face is specific, but that's it. The rest of her appearance and shaky arm movements are left for interpretation. Is her face supposed to remind us of the second victim on the night of Laura's murder? Laura and Ronette will always be tied together through that event. Is it similar to Diane and Audrey's fates with Mr. C? I think it's difficult to pin any character to DKL and Frost's choice to use Ronette in this scene, but Diane and Audrey mirror Laura and Ronette, the victims from the original series. I like the idea of Ronette having always been Laura's doppel-Donna, but The Return is centered around Cooper's journey, and I'm not sure how Donna as AG would fit into this context.

With regards to Naido being portrayed by an actress of Asian descent, is there a connection to the decor in Diane's apartment and some of the fashion she wore?


I really like your analysis again. Didn't even make the fireplace connection. As for Naido, honestly, the first thing I thought of when thinking back to her after part 8 was the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yuuki is a Japanese actress, and "Naido" is a Japanese name (well, not really, but it fits phonetically in Japanese so I guess it theoretically could be). But then when it was revealed that she was really Diane, I was left with nothing.

Tying it back to Audrey... the parallels with Diane in S3 are really blaring and to me what we can go off of when considering Audrey's situation. I think she's in the same situation as whatever Real Diane was in. But... who knows. I also think Audrey's situation could help illuminate the Richard/Linda/Carrie universe, but I'm still fleshing out how.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Xavi » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:35 am

It was said by doc Hayward that Audrey was in a coma, and there seems no doubt to disbelieve his words in any way. In S1/S2 for a long long time Ronette stayed in a hospital bed, in coma. Did she ever really wake up?
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:07 pm

Xavi wrote:It was said by doc Hayward that Audrey was in a coma, and there seems no doubt to disbelieve his words in any way. In S1/S2 for a long long time Ronette stayed in a hospital bed, in coma. Did she ever really wake up?


"This girl doesn't even know where she is or if she is."
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby chromereflectsimage » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:39 pm

Xavi wrote:It was said by doc Hayward that Audrey was in a coma, and there seems no doubt to disbelieve his words in any way. In S1/S2 for a long long time Ronette stayed in a hospital bed, in coma. Did she ever really wake up?

Yes, Ronette showed up in the season 2 finale briefly at the beginning in the police station. She freaked out over the oil the log lady brought.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby ThumbsUp » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:02 pm

Xavi wrote:It was said by doc Hayward that Audrey was in a coma, and there seems no doubt to disbelieve his words in any way. In S1/S2 for a long long time Ronette stayed in a hospital bed, in coma. Did she ever really wake up?


She was definitely in a coma immediately after the bank thing, I'm just not sold on that she's still in one 25 years later.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:18 am

We all see Ronette later in season 2, but I took Xavi as alluding to more of a symbolic coma than a literal one - the idea that Ronette was so traumatized by what happened to her that she is never the same and sleepwalking through the rest of her life still trapped in a nightmare, unable to "wake up." We never really get to find out what happened to Ronette after Laura's murder, so all of this is speculation, but it's a nice parallel to what could be happening with Audrey in The Return - whether she is a tulpa (just a version of herself), still stuck in a coma (literally or metaphorically), or stuck in the lodge - whatever her encounter was with Mr. C has traumatized her, fractured her identity, and consumed her with indecision and fear. The hospital scenes with Ronette are a nice connection and conjure up what could have been a similar fate for Audrey after the bank explosion.

Sorry - I will stop talking about AG, Audrey, and Ronette now! I am just biding my time until the Final Dossier comes out. - Wondering if we will get any more illumination on Audrey's situation or what happened to her after the bank explosion.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:53 am

I have a feeling TFD will clear up certain things (such as the fate of the Mill), but I doubt that it will clarify Audrey's situation. That’s clearly something L/F wanted to leave open to interpretation/speculation.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby ThumbsUp » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:35 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:We all see Ronette later in season 2, but I took Xavi as alluding to more of a symbolic coma than a literal one - the idea that Ronette was so traumatized by what happened to her that she is never the same and sleepwalking through the rest of her life still trapped in a nightmare, unable to "wake up." We never really get to find out what happened to Ronette after Laura's murder, so all of this is speculation, but it's a nice parallel to what could be happening with Audrey in The Return - whether she is a tulpa (just a version of herself), still stuck in a coma (literally or metaphorically), or stuck in the lodge - whatever her encounter was with Mr. C has traumatized her, fractured her identity, and consumed her with indecision and fear. The hospital scenes with Ronette are a nice connection and conjure up what could have been a similar fate for Audrey after the bank explosion.

Sorry - I will stop talking about AG, Audrey, and Ronette now! I am just biding my time until the Final Dossier comes out. - Wondering if we will get any more illumination on Audrey's situation or what happened to her after the bank explosion.


No, keep your analyses coming, they're great!

This is probably annoying, because I just posted this in the Part 14 thread because I just finished my rewatch, but I want to post here too because it could be connected to Audrey. In the Roadhouse, Megan recounts the last time she saw Billy to Sophie, and the ambient chatter of the Roadhouse completely stops and is replaced by ominous sounds once Megan says her mom's name is Tina. I also wonder if Billy is someone associated with the Lodge. Reason being, Megan can't remember parts of the story, like whether her uncle was there, and that's the third occasion in the same episode that people mention fuzzy memories or forgetting or not being able to remember. Both of the first two times were related to the Lodge (Jeffries' Philly appearance/disappearance in FWWM) and the Jack Rabbit's Palace bit. Seems weird for there to be three instances of the same thing happening in the same episode.

For the record, I have no idea what Billy is supposed to mean (does he have his own speculation thread?) but I think his existence as a person/character is less important than what he might represent or suggest, which I think is a different timeline or universe like we see in part 18. Which might tie in Audrey's situation and all the surreal Roadhouse vignettes of strangers discussing strangers, but who knows.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Aerozhul » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:28 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I have a feeling TFD will clear up certain things (such as the fate of the Mill), but I doubt that it will clarify Audrey's situation. That’s clearly something L/F wanted to leave open to interpretation/speculation.


I don't think it will clarify it so much as it wil give us some more details about what she was up to for the last 25 years, which may give us some clues about her situation, but certainly won't solve the puzzle.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:41 pm

ThumbsUp wrote: I think his existence as a person/character is less important than what he might represent or suggest, which I think is a different timeline or universe like we see in part 18. Which might tie in Audrey's situation and all the surreal Roadhouse vignettes of strangers discussing strangers, but who knows.


The whole Billy as the new Twin Peaks Lothario saga and other Roadhouse scenes felt like the "Invitation to Love" of The Return. That was sort of my interpretation, too, that he's there (and not there) more as a backdrop for the other altered realities and identities in the show. Do dreams sometime harken a truth, or is Audrey still dreaming? Is Billy even real?
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Xavi » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:27 am

ThumbsUp wrote:
Hester Prynne wrote:We all see Ronette later in season 2, but I took Xavi as alluding to more of a symbolic coma than a literal one - the idea that Ronette was so traumatized by what happened to her that she is never the same and sleepwalking through the rest of her life still trapped in a nightmare, unable to "wake up." We never really get to find out what happened to Ronette after Laura's murder, so all of this is speculation, but it's a nice parallel to what could be happening with Audrey in The Return - whether she is a tulpa (just a version of herself), still stuck in a coma (literally or metaphorically), or stuck in the lodge - whatever her encounter was with Mr. C has traumatized her, fractured her identity, and consumed her with indecision and fear. The hospital scenes with Ronette are a nice connection and conjure up what could have been a similar fate for Audrey after the bank explosion.

Sorry - I will stop talking about AG, Audrey, and Ronette now! I am just biding my time until the Final Dossier comes out. - Wondering if we will get any more illumination on Audrey's situation or what happened to her after the bank explosion.


This really got me thinking that Billy is in the same sort of "status" as Philip Jeffries, i.e. "not really existing anymore" - being dead yet alive. In FWWM Jeffries firstly appeared in Cooper's dream as a premonition of what would come. Then Cooper tells Gordon about his dream, and he repeatedly checks the security monitor ... well, we all know the story: Jeffries was there, but never was there at the same time neither.

In S3 Gordon has his repeating Monica Bellucci dream, in which Monica tells Gordon about the true nature of reality; we live inside a dream ... etc. In his dream Gordon looks back and faces himself in the past to remembering Cooper's dream and Jeffries' appearance. It's not a large jump, not even for the jumping man, to suggest that Jeffries saw another reality than the normal everyday living mortal souls do. Jeffries' existence seemed very depended on the perception of people and probably also (still) depends on electricity. This dependency makes him very vulnerable for all kinds of interferences and that is possibly why he can not persist for longer than an instance in earthly conditions, and therefor he must reside in a Faraday's cage, like a tin can sort of machine-like tea pot.

Anyways Billy seemed to appear and disappear like Jeffries and he might remain in the same realm. This maybe the reason why Linda and Richard also see and experience a different world and both persist in an very unstable configuration; i.e. fully depended on electricity - both being dead and alive at the same time, like two cats in Schrödinger's box?

... hope this makes any sense ...

No, keep your analyses coming, they're great!

This is probably annoying, because I just posted this in the Part 14 thread because I just finished my rewatch, but I want to post here too because it could be connected to Audrey. In the Roadhouse, Megan recounts the last time she saw Billy to Sophie, and the ambient chatter of the Roadhouse completely stops and is replaced by ominous sounds once Megan says her mom's name is Tina. I also wonder if Billy is someone associated with the Lodge. Reason being, Megan can't remember parts of the story, like whether her uncle was there, and that's the third occasion in the same episode that people mention fuzzy memories or forgetting or not being able to remember. Both of the first two times were related to the Lodge (Jeffries' Philly appearance/disappearance in FWWM) and the Jack Rabbit's Palace bit. Seems weird for there to be three instances of the same thing happening in the same episode.

For the record, I have no idea what Billy is supposed to mean (does he have his own speculation thread?) but I think his existence as a person/character is less important than what he might represent or suggest, which I think is a different timeline or universe like we see in part 18. Which might tie in Audrey's situation and all the surreal Roadhouse vignettes of strangers discussing strangers, but who knows.
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Re: POLL: The Nature of Audrey's Situation (Spoilers)

Postby Xavi » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:39 am

ThumbsUp wrote:
Hester Prynne wrote:We all see Ronette later in season 2, but I took Xavi as alluding to more of a symbolic coma than a literal one - the idea that Ronette was so traumatized by what happened to her that she is never the same and sleepwalking through the rest of her life still trapped in a nightmare, unable to "wake up." We never really get to find out what happened to Ronette after Laura's murder, so all of this is speculation, but it's a nice parallel to what could be happening with Audrey in The Return - whether she is a tulpa (just a version of herself), still stuck in a coma (literally or metaphorically), or stuck in the lodge - whatever her encounter was with Mr. C has traumatized her, fractured her identity, and consumed her with indecision and fear. The hospital scenes with Ronette are a nice connection and conjure up what could have been a similar fate for Audrey after the bank explosion.

Sorry - I will stop talking about AG, Audrey, and Ronette now! I am just biding my time until the Final Dossier comes out. - Wondering if we will get any more illumination on Audrey's situation or what happened to her after the bank explosion.




No, keep your analyses coming, they're great!

This is probably annoying, because I just posted this in the Part 14 thread because I just finished my rewatch, but I want to post here too because it could be connected to Audrey. In the Roadhouse, Megan recounts the last time she saw Billy to Sophie, and the ambient chatter of the Roadhouse completely stops and is replaced by ominous sounds once Megan says her mom's name is Tina. I also wonder if Billy is someone associated with the Lodge. Reason being, Megan can't remember parts of the story, like whether her uncle was there, and that's the third occasion in the same episode that people mention fuzzy memories or forgetting or not being able to remember. Both of the first two times were related to the Lodge (Jeffries' Philly appearance/disappearance in FWWM) and the Jack Rabbit's Palace bit. Seems weird for there to be three instances of the same thing happening in the same episode.

For the record, I have no idea what Billy is supposed to mean (does he have his own speculation thread?) but I think his existence as a person/character is less important than what he might represent or suggest, which I think is a different timeline or universe like we see in part 18. Which might tie in Audrey's situation and all the surreal Roadhouse vignettes of strangers discussing strangers, but who knows.



This really got me thinking that Billy is in the same sort of "status" as Philip Jeffries, i.e. "not really existing anymore" - being dead yet alive. In FWWM Jeffries firstly appeared in Cooper's dream as a premonition of what would come. Then Cooper tells Gordon about his dream, and he repeatedly checks the security monitor ... well, we all know the story: Jeffries was there, but never was there at the same time neither.

In S3 Gordon has his repeating Monica Bellucci dream, in which Monica tells Gordon about the true nature of reality; we live inside a dream ... etc. In his dream Gordon looks back and faces himself in the past to remembering Cooper's dream and Jeffries' appearance. It's not a large jump, not even for the jumping man, to suggest that Jeffries saw another reality than the normal everyday living mortal souls do. Jeffries' existence seemed very depended on the perception of people and probably also (still) depends on electricity. This dependency makes him very vulnerable for all kinds of interferences and that is possibly why he can not persist for longer than an instance in earthly conditions, and therefor he must reside in a Faraday's cage, like a tin can sort of machine-like tea pot.

Anyways Billy seemed to appear and disappear out of the blue like Jeffries and he might exist in the same realm. This maybe the reason why Linda and Richard also see and experience a different world and both persist in an very unstable configuration; i.e. fully depended on electricity - both being dead and alive at the same time, like two cats in Schrödinger's box?

... hope this makes any sense ...

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