'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby p-air » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:49 am

Nice little touch - the images on the spines of Secret History and Final Dossier seem to "join up":
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:54 am

FlyingSquirrel wrote:Has Harley Peyton ever commented on any of this on his own?


Not specifically, but he was on the Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast in late September. He said that he and Mark still talk on the phone around four times a week, and they interrupted their usual political discourse to talk about S3 when it was running (Harley had no insider info and approached it solely as a viewer). He said he mostly loved it but found some of Lynch’s indulgences a mixed bag. He particularly loved Parts 8 and 17 (and said he saw a lot of Mark in both Parts), but disliked Part 18. He also read and loved TSHoTP.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby BEARisonFord » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am

Just finished the book the other day, and although it's a little slighter than I thought it would be, I still really enjoyed it. The tragedies of Annie and Audrey were particularly poignant to me and felt tonally in line with what I expected.

I'd still love to know whatever happened to Chester Desmond someday, but at this point I am most definitely not holding my breath.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby trismegistus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:04 pm

BEARisonFord wrote:Just finished the book the other day, and although it's a little slighter than I thought it would be, I still really enjoyed it. The tragedies of Annie and Audrey were particularly poignant to me and felt tonally in line with what I expected.

I'd still love to know whatever happened to Chester Desmond someday, but at this point I am most definitely not holding my breath.


I just presume he was killed by Deputy Cliff. The only thing that really causes any doubt for that is what happened with Ray Monroe.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:26 pm

trismegistus wrote:
BEARisonFord wrote:Just finished the book the other day, and although it's a little slighter than I thought it would be, I still really enjoyed it. The tragedies of Annie and Audrey were particularly poignant to me and felt tonally in line with what I expected.

I'd still love to know whatever happened to Chester Desmond someday, but at this point I am most definitely not holding my breath.


I just presume he was killed by Deputy Cliff. The only thing that really causes any doubt for that is what happened with Ray Monroe.


I too had always assumed it was Deputy Cliff, but apparently the original script had Desmond disappearing when he touched the ring. I also think The Return implies that Desmond disappeared in the same way as Philip Jeffries and Agent Cooper.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:04 pm

mtwentz wrote:
trismegistus wrote:
BEARisonFord wrote:Just finished the book the other day, and although it's a little slighter than I thought it would be, I still really enjoyed it. The tragedies of Annie and Audrey were particularly poignant to me and felt tonally in line with what I expected.

I'd still love to know whatever happened to Chester Desmond someday, but at this point I am most definitely not holding my breath.


I just presume he was killed by Deputy Cliff. The only thing that really causes any doubt for that is what happened with Ray Monroe.


I too had always assumed it was Deputy Cliff, but apparently the original script had Desmond disappearing when he touched the ring. I also think The Return implies that Desmond disappeared in the same way as Philip Jeffries and Agent Cooper.


I think almost everything point in the direction of Chet visiting the lodge. They cut right from his finding the ring to the Jeffries sequence, someone who took the same ride. WIth all the focus on the ring throughout the rest of FWWM and S3, it would be odd if he had just received a bullet from Cliff Howard. Also it's the Chalfont's trailer not his.

It is quite strange that Desmond wasn't included at all. Especially once Bowie couldn't appear, most of that could have been re-written to be Desmond not Jeffries.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby BEARisonFord » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:38 pm

mtwentz wrote:
trismegistus wrote:
BEARisonFord wrote:Just finished the book the other day, and although it's a little slighter than I thought it would be, I still really enjoyed it. The tragedies of Annie and Audrey were particularly poignant to me and felt tonally in line with what I expected.

I'd still love to know whatever happened to Chester Desmond someday, but at this point I am most definitely not holding my breath.


I just presume he was killed by Deputy Cliff. The only thing that really causes any doubt for that is what happened with Ray Monroe.


I too had always assumed it was Deputy Cliff, but apparently the original script had Desmond disappearing when he touched the ring. I also think The Return implies that Desmond disappeared in the same way as Philip Jeffries and Agent Cooper.


That''s interesting, I thought it was pretty clear he disappeared, considering the freeze frame and fade when he touches the ring. I also remember it specifically stating this in whatever version of the script I read.

Regardless, I didn't quite expect either Lynch/Frost to follow up since Desmond's mere presence is because of Kyle's resistance to participate in FWWM, but I still wonder!
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:01 pm

was i'm the only one having an extremely bittersweet feeling unpacking and finally holding "The Final Dossier" in my hands? i had waited anxiously for it but finally starting to read made it sink in that this could very well be the last new Twin Peaks we'll ever get. especially now that they changed the name of the Blu Ray/DVD box to "Limited Event Series" from the hopeful "Season 3". i had the same feeling hit me even harder when i reached the final section of the book and the pages left started disappearing.

overall i liked the book quite a lot though it also gave the impression that the majority of it is deleted material from Secret History that Frost axed after discussions with Lynch. it was a real page turner and a slim book but i savored it over two nights to make it last as long as possible. it made for a very nice coda and really made me want to rewatch the Return again. will wait to early December though...

will get back with more thoughts on the book later but right now i'm glad that some things were cleared up a bit while still leaving room for different interpretations. it's also cool to get a confirmation how much the series managed to convey its ideas without spelling them out at all - most of the stuff that Mark cleared up in the book was confirmation on much of our theories here.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:12 pm

Agent Earle wrote:That doesn't mean I have to be content if I see they hadn't mended their ways. Particularly since the tie-in material comes directly from one of the original creators, something which wasn't the case back in the day.


Frost and Lynch signed off on all the material back then via close associates and staff writers (Peyton, Engels, Scott Frost), and Frost was heavily involved with some of those products. They were okay with it then and now.

Xavi wrote:I strongly disagree with all you write.


You are more than welcome to do so, it doesn't make it untrue.

First off, as long as "we" could not be absolutely sure about the 1956 girl's identity, it would imply that that girl good be anybody, not even excluding Diane.


Be that as it may, they clearly intended for it to be Sarah.

This gives the Dale Diane love scene an enormous tension, a huge charge.


Well, first, you're the only person I've ever heard of who thinks that girl is Diane. That's on you, not the filmmakers or the book. Second, it can't be Diane, who is not old enough.

BTW, I don't think the Diane Dale love scene has anything to do with losing innocence, albeit the convergence of two opposite forces; Love and Fear.


I think the Diane/Dale sex scene is about violation and the loss of not only what they once had as close friends - a kind of innocence - but also of their/her own identity. It is also the memory of violation (the Bad Dale raping Diane) not unlike what happened to the young Sarah. I don't think there is a direct correlation between the insect and anything with Dale and Diane, I think it is a thematic resonance. I think something horrible happened to Sarah, and to Diane, and to them.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:15 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote:Has Harley Peyton ever commented on any of this on his own?


Not specifically, but he was on the Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast in late September. He said that he and Mark still talk on the phone around four times a week, and they interrupted their usual political discourse to talk about S3 when it was running (Harley had no insider info and approached it solely as a viewer). He said he mostly loved it but found some of Lynch’s indulgences a mixed bag. He particularly loved Parts 8 and 17 (and said he saw a lot of Mark in both Parts), but disliked Part 18. He also read and loved TSHoTP.


I'm surprised if that's so. I've been watching Peyton's Channel Zero anthology series on SyFy, which I highly recommend, and in the latest season (No-End House) I absolutely could not get S3 or Part 18 out of my head.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:43 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote:Has Harley Peyton ever commented on any of this on his own?


Not specifically, but he was on the Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast in late September. He said that he and Mark still talk on the phone around four times a week, and they interrupted their usual political discourse to talk about S3 when it was running (Harley had no insider info and approached it solely as a viewer). He said he mostly loved it but found some of Lynch’s indulgences a mixed bag. He particularly loved Parts 8 and 17 (and said he saw a lot of Mark in both Parts), but disliked Part 18. He also read and loved TSHoTP.


I'm surprised if that's so. I've been watching Peyton's Channel Zero anthology series on SyFy, which I highly recommend, and in the latest season (No-End House) I absolutely could not get S3 or Part 18 out of my head.


Here’s the link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SQIwFaJ7QQk

It sounds like he had a bit of preconception bias / wanting to see the old characters he helped developed more, which is understandable. But it also sounds like he was largely able to enjoy the new series on its own groundbreaking terms. For whatever reason, Part 18 just seems not to have worked for him.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:01 am

N. Needleman wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:That doesn't mean I have to be content if I see they hadn't mended their ways. Particularly since the tie-in material comes directly from one of the original creators, something which wasn't the case back in the day.


Frost and Lynch signed off on all the material back then via close associates and staff writers (Peyton, Engels, Scott Frost), and Frost was heavily involved with some of those products. They were okay with it then and now.




You have a point, but it's beside my point: I wasn't saying F & L weren't okay with these consistency hiccups, I was saying I'm not okay with them being okay. :)
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:52 am

N. Needleman wrote:
Xavi wrote:I strongly disagree with all you write.


You are more than welcome to do so, it doesn't make it untrue.


True or untrue, I prefer arguments, I prefer speaking and writing on my own terms and do not pretend to express the opinions of others.

N. Needleman wrote:
Xavi wrote:First off, as long as "we" could not be absolutely sure about the 1956 girl's identity, it would imply that that girl good be anybody, not even excluding Diane.


Be that as it may, they clearly intended for it to be Sarah.


Well, that's just your and Frost's opinion, man.

N. Needleman wrote:
Xavi wrote:This gives the Dale Diane love scene an enormous tension, a huge charge.


Well, first, you're the only person I've ever heard of who thinks that girl is Diane. That's on you, not the filmmakers or the book. Second, it can't be Diane, who is not old enough.


Since when are you entitled to express the intentions of David Lynch? Did he tell you personally?
Question: How old was Dale Cooper when he came to rescue Laura in the woods to preventing her from getting murdered?


N. Needleman wrote:
Xavi wrote:BTW, I don't think the Diane Dale love scene has anything to do with losing innocence, albeit the convergence of two opposite forces; Love and Fear.


I think the Diane/Dale sex scene is about violation and the loss of not only what they once had as close friends - a kind of innocence - but also of their/her own identity. It is also the memory of violation (the Bad Dale raping Diane) not unlike what happened to the young Sarah. I don't think there is a direct correlation between the insect and anything with Dale and Diane, I think it is a thematic resonance. I think something horrible happened to Sarah, and to Diane, and to them.


I did not notice any violation in the Diane Dale love scene at all, nor during Tracey and Sam's love scene. There was willingness from both sides; I would call that pure love, which nears a state of surrender and submission, a moment of losing control, almost like being hypnotised or something ... To use a notorious quote from IE "Strange what love does. So strange."

BTW Did not see the way Diane gazed at the "stars" was nearly identical to Becky's "I love how you love me" ? Don't you think the kiss at the 430 mark has something to do with the suggestion of a second kiss related to the frog-moth that crept in after the girl's first kiss?
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:50 am

I haven't finished the book but I noticed people saying the book never returns to Shelly and Bobby. There is a small section about Becky (who appears to have lived?!), Shelly and Bobby at the end of the Donna Hayward chapter. Could that be what he's referring to? I agree that it seems like a copyediting mistake at best and excluded material at worst. I think we should have multiple people ask him during the AMA if there was more text intended to be included so the question gets noticed.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:58 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I disagree. Reading between the lines, I can see where you’re coming from. But the only “motive” Tammy presents for the Double’s actions is that he is looking for the “Grand Central Station” vortex/portal, and that he desires greater power — perhaps immortality (p. 110). Later she talks about Ba’al, but there is no overtly stated reference to Bob or the Double’s motives in this context, and certainly no indication that the doppel wants to destroy the world.


I don't think Mr. C would want the world destroyed, since that would probably leave him nowhere to go other than back to the Black Lodge. It seems like he wants to be independent of Judy, BOB, and any other Black Lodge forces. Anyone else think that perhaps he'd even gained some control over BOB and was drawing on his power, rather than BOB being able to control him at will like he seemingly could with Leland?

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