Billy and Charlie

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Voided
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Billy and Charlie

Postby Voided » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:30 am

It only occurred to me recently whilst rewatching the third season, that both Billy and Charlie are slang names for drugs...Speed and Cocaine, respectively. It was when Audrey spoke the line “I prefer Billy” that it clicked. I assume this must be an intentional reference, but I don’t know what level of importance it may or may not hold within the various strands of interpretation. This has probably been mentioned before, but I haven’t read it myself. I do find Audrey’s predicament to be symbolic rather than actual, and it does border on some sort of purgatorial dream state. I thought that, in his book, Frost struggled to write around Lynch’s abstraction...and it fell flat on the page...as it was destined to do.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby mtwentz » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:33 am

Voided wrote:It only occurred to me recently whilst rewatching the third season, that both Billy and Charlie are slang names for drugs...Speed and Cocaine, respectively. It was when Audrey spoke the line “I prefer Billy” that it clicked. I assume this must be an intentional reference, but I don’t know what level of importance it may or may not hold within the various strands of interpretation. This has probably been mentioned before, but I haven’t read it myself. I do find Audrey’s predicament to be symbolic rather than actual, and it does border on some sort of purgatorial dream state. I thought that, in his book, Frost struggled to write around Lynch’s abstraction...and it fell flat on the page...as it was destined to do.


I've never heard that, interesting idea. Is Tina the name for a drug as well?
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Voided » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:35 am

mtwentz wrote:
Voided wrote:It only occurred to me recently whilst rewatching the third season, that both Billy and Charlie are slang names for drugs...Speed and Cocaine, respectively. It was when Audrey spoke the line “I prefer Billy” that it clicked. I assume this must be an intentional reference, but I don’t know what level of importance it may or may not hold within the various strands of interpretation. This has probably been mentioned before, but I haven’t read it myself. I do find Audrey’s predicament to be symbolic rather than actual, and it does border on some sort of purgatorial dream state. I thought that, in his book, Frost struggled to write around Lynch’s abstraction...and it fell flat on the page...as it was destined to do.


I've never heard that, interesting idea. Is Tina the name for a drug as well?



Yes. Apparently it is slang for crystal methamphetamine. I didn’t know that one. Interesting.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby mtwentz » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:53 am

Voided wrote:
mtwentz wrote:
Voided wrote:It only occurred to me recently whilst rewatching the third season, that both Billy and Charlie are slang names for drugs...Speed and Cocaine, respectively. It was when Audrey spoke the line “I prefer Billy” that it clicked. I assume this must be an intentional reference, but I don’t know what level of importance it may or may not hold within the various strands of interpretation. This has probably been mentioned before, but I haven’t read it myself. I do find Audrey’s predicament to be symbolic rather than actual, and it does border on some sort of purgatorial dream state. I thought that, in his book, Frost struggled to write around Lynch’s abstraction...and it fell flat on the page...as it was destined to do.


I've never heard that, interesting idea. Is Tina the name for a drug as well?



Yes. Apparently it is slang for crystal methamphetamine. I didn’t know that one. Interesting.


Wow, that is interesting. I think I am coming around to your theory.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby LateReg » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:28 am

This is actually amazing, and I had no idea.

What's equally interesting is that I was going to start a thread on these names as well. I don't wish to derail this one, but since mine was going to be called nearly the same thing, I'll post it here. Has anybody attempted to try to link each of the names mentioned in Part 12 - Billy, Charlie, Chuck, Tina, Clark etc. - to lodge spirits and who they may be inhabiting? It's such an eerie moment in Part 14 when Lynch's wife asks her friend "What's your mom's name again?" and she pauses, giving us time to think that it may be Audrey, before saying that her mom's name is Tina. The names mentioned in Part 12 are all strong American names, like Bob and Mike, which led a friend of mine to believe that they were also likely the names of lodge spirits. If you then consider that the Roadhouse in The Return is a place where two worlds intersect, and that is where the names are once again referenced and added to, and there's talk of missing uncles and mental institutions, and we find out that Audrey MAY be in a mental institution or tucked away in some lodge place...I think it would be fascinating to try to take what we know about the names mentioned - primarily Tina, Chuck (Renee's husband?) and Billy - and apply them to characters we know by other names and see what kind of parallels might be noticed.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Voided » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:19 pm

LateReg wrote:This is actually amazing, and I had no idea.

What's equally interesting is that I was going to start a thread on these names as well. I don't wish to derail this one, but since mine was going to be called nearly the same thing, I'll post it here. Has anybody attempted to try to link each of the names mentioned in Part 12 - Billy, Charlie, Chuck, Tina, Clark etc. - to lodge spirits and who they may be inhabiting? It's such an eerie moment in Part 14 when Lynch's wife asks her friend "What's your mom's name again?" and she pauses, giving us time to think that it may be Audrey, before saying that her mom's name is Tina. The names mentioned in Part 12 are all strong American names, like Bob and Mike, which led a friend of mine to believe that they were also likely the names of lodge spirits. If you then consider that the Roadhouse in The Return is a place where two worlds intersect, and that is where the names are once again referenced and added to, and there's talk of missing uncles and mental institutions, and we find out that Audrey MAY be in a mental institution or tucked away in some lodge place...I think it would be fascinating to try to take what we know about the names mentioned - primarily Tina, Chuck (Renee's husband?) and Billy - and apply them to characters we know by other names and see what kind of parallels might be noticed.


Yes. I certainly feel that there’s something here that nobody has really quite gotten to the bottom of. The talk of uncles is very deliberate and pointed. The honking lady in the car mentions an uncle, too.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:46 pm

Voided wrote:
Yes. I certainly feel that there’s something here that nobody has really quite gotten to the bottom of. The talk of uncles is very deliberate and pointed. The honking lady in the car mentions an uncle, too.


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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby chromereflectsimage » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:24 am

LateReg wrote:This is actually amazing, and I had no idea.

What's equally interesting is that I was going to start a thread on these names as well. I don't wish to derail this one, but since mine was going to be called nearly the same thing, I'll post it here. Has anybody attempted to try to link each of the names mentioned in Part 12 - Billy, Charlie, Chuck, Tina, Clark etc. - to lodge spirits and who they may be inhabiting? It's such an eerie moment in Part 14 when Lynch's wife asks her friend "What's your mom's name again?" and she pauses, giving us time to think that it may be Audrey, before saying that her mom's name is Tina. The names mentioned in Part 12 are all strong American names, like Bob and Mike, which led a friend of mine to believe that they were also likely the names of lodge spirits. If you then consider that the Roadhouse in The Return is a place where two worlds intersect, and that is where the names are once again referenced and added to, and there's talk of missing uncles and mental institutions, and we find out that Audrey MAY be in a mental institution or tucked away in some lodge place...I think it would be fascinating to try to take what we know about the names mentioned - primarily Tina, Chuck (Renee's husband?) and Billy - and apply them to characters we know by other names and see what kind of parallels might be noticed.


In the scene with Chuck and Renee, there is a fireplace off to the side like there is when we first see Audrey. Sarah Palmer's house has the fire place covered. Cooper sees a fireplace in the mauve zone. Not sure what this all means.

Chuck and Charlie are 2 variations of the same name. The fight that breaks out when Audrey asks Charlie to get out of there is similar to the fight with Chuck and James over Renee ("That's my wife!").
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Xavi » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:28 am

I remember that Naido had her fireplace burning hot when Cooper visited her, and the same goes for The American Girl's fireplace. Naido was Diane's otherworldly half, whereas "American Girl" is the other half of Audrey, according my view. Diane and Audrey were both raped and taken to that darkening place above the convenience store. Well, you all know the story. In case you don't, in a psychological sense or metaphysical way, a mind coping with a rape can cause a split of personality; one part remains "half born" in what we call reality, and the other half abides in a hidden state of non-existence, which is represented by the mauve world. By the way, The Giant's world is Black and White, just saying.

I also recall that Gordon's socks were on fire when he first saw Shelly at the Double RR.

Anyway, forever and ever Cooper walks in and out red hot curtains.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby chromereflectsimage » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:02 am

There's also this description of the third Bardo. Sound familiar?

In the third bardo the soul encounters the Lord of Death, a fearsome demonic deity who appears in smoke and fire, and subjects the soul to a Judgment. If the dead person protests that he has done no evil, the Lord of Death holds up before him the Mirror of Karma, "wherein every good and evil act is vividly reflected." Now demons approach and begin to inflict torments and punishments upon the soul for his evil deeds. The instructions in the Bardo Thodol are for him to attempt to recognize the Voidness of all these beings, including the Lord of Death himself; the dead person is told that this entire scene unfolding around him is a projection from his own mind. Even here he can attain liberation by recognizing this.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Cappy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:51 am

Is it still commonly assumed that Billy is the drunk is the jail cell?

I think that the "penguin" referred to by the Sky Ferreira character might be the Jumping Man. Her strange underarm rash seemed like grosser version of the tingling arm syndrome from the original series.

Also, the "rhinoceros" referred to by Steven in the woods might be a similar allusion. Jumping Man's nose could be construed as a horn from some perspectives.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby chromereflectsimage » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:09 am

Voided wrote:It only occurred to me recently whilst rewatching the third season, that both Billy and Charlie are slang names for drugs...Speed and Cocaine, respectively. It was when Audrey spoke the line “I prefer Billy” that it clicked. I assume this must be an intentional reference, but I don’t know what level of importance it may or may not hold within the various strands of interpretation. This has probably been mentioned before, but I haven’t read it myself. I do find Audrey’s predicament to be symbolic rather than actual, and it does border on some sort of purgatorial dream state. I thought that, in his book, Frost struggled to write around Lynch’s abstraction...and it fell flat on the page...as it was destined to do.


CHARLES Brackett and BILLY Wilder are also the name of the men who wrote Sunset Boulevard. Audrey wakes up in front of a circular mirror like Norma was looking into at the end of the movie after she killed Joe. We did see Audrey choking Charlie before hand...
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby Kilmoore » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:06 am

Cappy wrote:Is it still commonly assumed that Billy is the drunk is the jail cell?

I'm still confused as to what difference does it make. The man in the cell doesn't interact with anyone who refers to Billy, so it doesn't matter.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby chromereflectsimage » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:13 am

I see the drunk in the jail is to Chad as Dougie is to Mr. C, both the drunk and Dougie mimic everything others say, but we don't get to see Dougie and Mr. C interact.
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Re: Billy and Charlie

Postby LateReg » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:07 pm

Kilmoore wrote:
Cappy wrote:Is it still commonly assumed that Billy is the drunk is the jail cell?

I'm still confused as to what difference does it make. The man in the cell doesn't interact with anyone who refers to Billy, so it doesn't matter.


Billy could be a lodge spirit crossed over into the real world, perhaps, which could signify that the Roadhouse is a meeting place between two worlds. Billy is obviously an important name, somehow, and he's referenced as bleeding from the mouth. The drunk looks to be bleeding in such a way, so people make that assumption. Which you already know, but I'm confused as to why you think it doesn't matter.

I'm curious...does anyone see the drunk's "blood" that drips from his mouth as engine oil? It looks like oil to me. That, coupled with how he repeats everything people say, could signify that he comes from the black lodge. He also never appears again after the action transfers from the prison cells to the sheriff's office, as many have pointed out.

I, too, would like to know if drunk = Billy is the prevalent theory, and what all such a theory entails, and what it could mean.

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