The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

Forum rules
Welcome to the forum. We know our members are passionate about their love for all things Twin Peaks. You wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Despite having differing viewpoints it is a policy that we all treat each other with mutual respect.

Posting abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated, or any material that may violate any laws be it of your country or the country where this forum is hosted will get you permanently banned.

Posting of spoilers are allowed as long as you indicate (Spoilers) in the topic name and use the Spoiler Tag.
User avatar
Saturn's child
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:38 pm
Location: Blue Mountains

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Saturn's child » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:28 am

I was giving Chinatown a watch after not having seen it for a few years; noticed a familiar looking distinctive gunshot wound:

Eyes.jpg
Eyes.jpg (112.95 KiB) Viewed 3023 times


Also, in Chinatown
Spoiler:
Evelyn was raped by her father as a teenager.
User avatar
Andromedeaux
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:04 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Andromedeaux » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:43 pm

LateReg wrote:
krishnanspace wrote:I've been watching Sharp Objects. Sadly, for me, it feels very basic. Well-made and performed, even elegant, but very little to distinguish it from the current model of Prestige TV. I felt this way - that so-called Prestige TV has plateaued and is in a static state - about a lot of TV in the build-up to Twin Peaks: The Return, so while TP aired and since those feelings have obviously been magnified. Sharp Objects is surely good but I wish it were more.


Same. But instead of Prestige TV My buzzword would be TVTTH (TV that tries too hard). It's seamless enjoyable TV watching. also forgettable. I do think Twin Peaks started to approach this tone towards the end of Season 2 - enjoyable but less spontaneous and memorable. A caricature of itself.

I keep telling friends who aren't as into TP as I am - I like it because it is bad. It is striking and irreversible on the first watch, regardless of whether you enjoy it. Recents that share some of those qualities:

-Mr. Robot (sometimes.. when it's good it's good)
-Better Call Saul
-Black Mirror (love to hate this show)
-True Detective S1

Unforgettable but terrible:
-The OA

Prestige TV / Basic / OK:
-Mad Men
-The Americans
-Peaky Blinders
-Fargo
-everything else

Prestige / Overrated, STOP:
-Westworld
-GoT
-the one with the magic girl, nose bleeds, what is it called again? i'm sure one of you can answer
User avatar
krishnanspace
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:15 am

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby krishnanspace » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:45 pm

Andromedeaux wrote:
LateReg wrote:
krishnanspace wrote:I've been watching Sharp Objects. Sadly, for me, it feels very basic. Well-made and performed, even elegant, but very little to distinguish it from the current model of Prestige TV. I felt this way - that so-called Prestige TV has plateaued and is in a static state - about a lot of TV in the build-up to Twin Peaks: The Return, so while TP aired and since those feelings have obviously been magnified. Sharp Objects is surely good but I wish it were more.


Same. But instead of Prestige TV My buzzword would be TVTTH (TV that tries too hard). It's seamless enjoyable TV watching. also forgettable. I do think Twin Peaks started to approach this tone towards the end of Season 2 - enjoyable but less spontaneous and memorable. A caricature of itself.

I keep telling friends who aren't as into TP as I am - I like it because it is bad. It is striking and irreversible on the first watch, regardless of whether you enjoy it. Recents that share some of those qualities:

-Mr. Robot (sometimes.. when it's good it's good)
-Better Call Saul
-Black Mirror (love to hate this show)
-True Detective S1

Unforgettable but terrible:
-The OA

Prestige TV / Basic / OK:
-Mad Men
-The Americans
-Peaky Blinders
-Fargo
-everything else

Prestige / Overrated, STOP:
-Westworld
-GoT
-the one with the magic girl, nose bleeds, what is it called again? i'm sure one of you can answer

GoT is very overrated. Both Westworld and Stranger Things had good first Seasons, but Season 2 just tried to replicate the same formula again
GoT is basically like a Bollywood Masala show. The VFX and titties are the only reason millions of people watch the show.
LateReg
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby LateReg » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:41 am

For what it's worth, I actually prefer season 2 of both Westworld and Stranger Things. Not by much, and I recognize their faults, but I do slightly prefer them to their respective season 1s.
User avatar
Andromedeaux
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:04 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Andromedeaux » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:42 pm

LateReg wrote:For what it's worth, I actually prefer season 2 of both Westworld and Stranger Things. Not by much, and I recognize their faults, but I do slightly prefer them to their respective season 1s.

well that makes you basic! No, actually I think you just like season 2 in general. Did you like Mighty Ducks 2, Mario 2, Godfather 2, etc?

BC those were all excellent, my man! Wish we could say the same for TP S2.
Agent Earle
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 am

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:12 am

But we can. I'm hereby declaring Twin Peaks' Season 2 as the best part of the TP universe - take that! :D
User avatar
krishnanspace
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:15 am

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby krishnanspace » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:32 am

Agent Earle wrote:But we can. I'm hereby declaring Twin Peaks' Season 2 as the best part of the TP universe - take that! :D

No! Invitation to Love is better than TP :D
LateReg
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby LateReg » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:12 am

Agent Earle wrote:But we can. I'm hereby declaring Twin Peaks' Season 2 as the best part of the TP universe - take that! :D


Well, I mean, it's tough, right? Because even if you hate the "bad" season 2 stuff, the first 8 episodes and the finale are arguably the best part of (the original) Twin Peaks. Even in those episodes, there is a bit of meandering imo between episodes 10 - 12 of the series (episode 8 being the first episode of s2), but the rest of the peak episodes are all as great as it gets, and contain many of the peak moments, so I certainly think it is very much arguable that season 2 is the quintessential season of Twin Peaks...and I even think that to be true if you include the mid-season episodes that many find to be lackluster, because then you get the entire oddball experience. At any rate, I hate it when I read critics debriefing their readers on the series and then automatically write off all of season 2 without any detail about how it also contains some of the greatest stuff ever aired on TV. That drives me bonkers!
User avatar
Andromedeaux
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:04 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Andromedeaux » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:11 pm

LateReg wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:But we can. I'm hereby declaring Twin Peaks' Season 2 as the best part of the TP universe - take that! :D


Well, I mean, it's tough, right? Because even if you hate the "bad" season 2 stuff, the first 8 episodes and the finale are arguably the best part of (the original) Twin Peaks. Even in those episodes, there is a bit of meandering imo between episodes 10 - 12 of the series (episode 8 being the first episode of s2), but the rest of the peak episodes are all as great as it gets, and contain many of the peak moments, so I certainly think it is very much arguable that season 2 is the quintessential season of Twin Peaks...and I even think that to be true if you include the mid-season episodes that many find to be lackluster, because then you get the entire oddball experience. At any rate, I hate it when I read critics debriefing their readers on the series and then automatically write off all of season 2 without any detail about how it also contains some of the greatest stuff ever aired on TV. That drives me bonkers!



True that, some very memorable quintessential moments in S2, great characters introduced, and so on. My point is that much of S2 resembles Prestige TV. The episodes you mentioned do not, especially the last. Which is not to say that it's all bad. I can turn it on for pleasurable viewing, but it seems more like episodes of mad men or breaking bad. Both great shows.

Twin peaks return does not have much in common with those and it is indifferent to norms. Time will judge it's legacy but I think it's a little too esoteric to ever have the impact of the original. Which of course makes me like it more.
User avatar
Mr. Strawberry
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:17 pm
Location: Nevada City, CA
Contact:

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:04 pm

They're both great seasons.


Then:

James is a sad and lonely Handy Man
Major departs to Otherworlds
Nadine knocks Hank out
Green Butt Skunk
Gordon's ears hurt


Now:

James is a sad and lonely Security Guard
Major imparts from Netherworlds
Freddie knocks BOB out
Green Horne Skunk
Gordon's ears still hurt
Not taking any calls.
User avatar
Andromedeaux
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:04 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Andromedeaux » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:44 pm

To bolster the arguments by S2 sympathizers above I would add that S2 is the perfect compliment to S1, the yin to its yang. That I agree it doesn't get the credit it deserves and there are moments of real novelty and brilliance. Ben lost in the civil war is one of my favorite moments of TV ever
Agent Earle
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 am

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Agent Earle » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:51 am

LateReg wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:But we can. I'm hereby declaring Twin Peaks' Season 2 as the best part of the TP universe - take that! :D


Well, I mean, it's tough, right? Because even if you hate the "bad" season 2 stuff, the first 8 episodes and the finale are arguably the best part of (the original) Twin Peaks. Even in those episodes, there is a bit of meandering imo between episodes 10 - 12 of the series (episode 8 being the first episode of s2), but the rest of the peak episodes are all as great as it gets, and contain many of the peak moments, so I certainly think it is very much arguable that season 2 is the quintessential season of Twin Peaks...and I even think that to be true if you include the mid-season episodes that many find to be lackluster, because then you get the entire oddball experience. At any rate, I hate it when I read critics debriefing their readers on the series and then automatically write off all of season 2 without any detail about how it also contains some of the greatest stuff ever aired on TV. That drives me bonkers!


Couldn't have said it better myself.

And for the record: I love all of season 2, even the "bad" stuff. For me as a contemporary viewer back then, it was an unparalleled thrill after the Palmer situation got resolved guessing what could possibly come next and where in the heck will Lynch - yeah, being Internet-less and without any information about the genesis of the series in my part of the world and practically no-one to discuss it with except my mother and the tiny circle of my friends and schoolmates, 11-year old naive me thought it was all Lynch, pretty much like it was with S 3 - take us. Suffice it to say I was anything but disappointed with where we ended up :) I distinctly remember enjoying the hectic feeling of disorganization in the post-Laura Palmer phase of the show when a bunch of new characters and exotic subplots got thrown our way and it took a while for the main storyline to take shape (I especially appreciated how they introduced Cooper's personal history and made it become an integral part of his descent into the supernatural inhabiting Twin Peaks) that went on to culminate with possibly the greatest series finale in television history.

Right with you on being driven bonkers by critics (or "critics") blindly dismissing the whole season to this day - I just call it lazy intellectual work on their part (of course they must feel particularly encouraged to go on with this line of thinking these days, since Lynch mercilessly trashed S 2 without an ounce of tact prior to S 3 premiering). Besides failing to inform readers of their critiques and analyses that S 2 "contains some of the greatest stuff ever aired on TV", I'd add they also "forget" mentioning that S 2 pretty much is what became known as the Twin Peaks experience in the two and a half decades since the show went off the air.
LateReg
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby LateReg » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:12 pm

Agent Earle wrote:Couldn't have said it better myself.

And for the record: I love all of season 2, even the "bad" stuff. For me as a contemporary viewer back then, it was an unparalleled thrill after the Palmer situation got resolved guessing what could possibly come next and where in the heck will Lynch - yeah, being Internet-less and without any information about the genesis of the series in my part of the world and practically no-one to discuss it with except my mother and the tiny circle of my friends and schoolmates, 11-year old naive me thought it was all Lynch, pretty much like it was with S 3 - take us. Suffice it to say I was anything but disappointed with where we ended up :) I distinctly remember enjoying the hectic feeling of disorganization in the post-Laura Palmer phase of the show when a bunch of new characters and exotic subplots got thrown our way and it took a while for the main storyline to take shape (I especially appreciated how they introduced Cooper's personal history and made it become an integral part of his descent into the supernatural inhabiting Twin Peaks) that went on to culminate with possibly the greatest series finale in television history.

Right with you on being driven bonkers by critics (or "critics") blindly dismissing the whole season to this day - I just call it lazy intellectual work on their part (of course they must feel particularly encouraged to go on with this line of thinking these days, since Lynch mercilessly trashed S 2 without an ounce of tact prior to S 3 premiering). Besides failing to inform readers of their critiques and analyses that S 2 "contains some of the greatest stuff ever aired on TV", I'd add they also "forget" mentioning that S 2 pretty much is what became known as the Twin Peaks experience in the two and a half decades since the show went off the air.


As far as being the quintessential season of Twin Peaks is concerned, even if you think the "bad" stuff is actually bad, there's still something to it from a strictly analytical/objective perspective. The "bad" stretch of season 2 is worthy of historical study, as it fascinatingly displays a prior model of TV-making that basically no longer exists in this age of Limited Series and tightly controlled Prestige projects. From an academic standpoint, it has great value for that alone: its rating drop, the idea that viewers were getting angry that a mystery was being dragged out for more than a few episodes or one season, the studio interference, the fumbling disorganization as the writers threw shit against the wall in search of new storylines, etc. That's an invaluable time capsule from a production standpoint.

And you know what, I remember feeling the same way as you the first time I watched the majority of season 2, which wasn't until 2003. I didn't remember feeling let down by the post-Laura stuff, but rather sort of excited about where it would go, happy to go along for the ride. I can't say I remember noticing the drop in quality at the time, but I really don't think that I did. I do now though, especially in the James storyline. But over time I have learned to appreciate and luxuriate in what I view as a lull in the season; the James stuff aside, I think the majority of Season 2 - both the mysterious and the silly - is still pretty good. It still possesses and evolves the atmosphere in ways that few series are capable of doing.
User avatar
Andromedeaux
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:04 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby Andromedeaux » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:19 pm

LateReg wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:Couldn't have said it better myself.

And for the record: I love all of season 2, even the "bad" stuff. For me as a contemporary viewer back then, it was an unparalleled thrill after the Palmer situation got resolved guessing what could possibly come next and where in the heck will Lynch - yeah, being Internet-less and without any information about the genesis of the series in my part of the world and practically no-one to discuss it with except my mother and the tiny circle of my friends and schoolmates, 11-year old naive me thought it was all Lynch, pretty much like it was with S 3 - take us. Suffice it to say I was anything but disappointed with where we ended up :) I distinctly remember enjoying the hectic feeling of disorganization in the post-Laura Palmer phase of the show when a bunch of new characters and exotic subplots got thrown our way and it took a while for the main storyline to take shape (I especially appreciated how they introduced Cooper's personal history and made it become an integral part of his descent into the supernatural inhabiting Twin Peaks) that went on to culminate with possibly the greatest series finale in television history.

Right with you on being driven bonkers by critics (or "critics") blindly dismissing the whole season to this day - I just call it lazy intellectual work on their part (of course they must feel particularly encouraged to go on with this line of thinking these days, since Lynch mercilessly trashed S 2 without an ounce of tact prior to S 3 premiering). Besides failing to inform readers of their critiques and analyses that S 2 "contains some of the greatest stuff ever aired on TV", I'd add they also "forget" mentioning that S 2 pretty much is what became known as the Twin Peaks experience in the two and a half decades since the show went off the air.


As far as being the quintessential season of Twin Peaks is concerned, even if you think the "bad" stuff is actually bad, there's still something to it from a strictly analytical/objective perspective. The "bad" stretch of season 2 is worthy of historical study, as it fascinatingly displays a prior model of TV-making that basically no longer exists in this age of Limited Series and tightly controlled Prestige projects. From an academic standpoint, it has great value for that alone: its rating drop, the idea that viewers were getting angry that a mystery was being dragged out for more than a few episodes or one season, the studio interference, the fumbling disorganization as the writers threw shit against the wall in search of new storylines, etc. That's an invaluable time capsule from a production standpoint.

And you know what, I remember feeling the same way as you the first time I watched the majority of season 2, which wasn't until 2003. I didn't remember feeling let down by the post-Laura stuff, but rather sort of excited about where it would go, happy to go along for the ride. I can't say I remember noticing the drop in quality at the time, but I really don't think that I did. I do now though, especially in the James storyline. But over time I have learned to appreciate and luxuriate in what I view as a lull in the season; the James stuff aside, I think the majority of Season 2 - both the mysterious and the silly - is still pretty good. It still possesses and evolves the atmosphere in ways that few series are capable of doing.


Given all that you both wrote, and great points btw, I still wonder about the contribution of these so-called bad episodes and subplots to the Twin Peaks world at large. I'll make the argument that they are in fact bad in this context: Most of those subplots (Dick Tremayne and little Nicky, Evelyn Marsh, Audrey's BF come to mind) seemed concerted attempts to make this palatable or commercially successful while retaining the TP "feels"; but those subplots went nowhere and we ended up back Lynch's brain in the last episode. We are all accustomed to subplots going nowhere as we are Lynch fans. In The Return unresolved and inexplicable subplots are there ostensibly for the sake of being unresolved and it's a cruel trick but one that I love. I love the randomness of it, like I love Clickhole, and other forms that fuck with expectations.

Season 2 BS Subplots (S2BSSP) went nowhere but as if to weave some standard TV writing into Twin Peaks in desperation or even an attempt to profit off former success. I do wonder how bad they would have become and how hackneyed the formula would have been during a hypothetical S3 in 1992. But we got FWWM instead and I'm so thankful for that because it is my favorite of all.
LateReg
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: The Random Twin Peaks Thread

Postby LateReg » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:51 pm

Andromedeaux wrote:
Given all that you both wrote, and great points btw, I still wonder about the contribution of these so-called bad episodes and subplots to the Twin Peaks world at large. I'll make the argument that they are in fact bad in this context: Most of those subplots (Dick Tremayne and little Nicky, Evelyn Marsh, Audrey's BF come to mind) seemed concerted attempts to make this palatable or commercially successful while retaining the TP "feels"; but those subplots went nowhere and we ended up back Lynch's brain in the last episode. We are all accustomed to subplots going nowhere as we are Lynch fans. In The Return unresolved and inexplicable subplots are there ostensibly for the sake of being unresolved and it's a cruel trick but one that I love. I love the randomness of it, like I love Clickhole, and other forms that fuck with expectations.

Season 2 BS Subplots (S2BSSP) went nowhere but as if to weave some standard TV writing into Twin Peaks in desperation or even an attempt to profit off former success. I do wonder how bad they would have become and how hackneyed the formula would have been during a hypothetical S3 in 1992. But we got FWWM instead and I'm so thankful for that because it is my favorite of all.


I agree with all that. Billy Zane's purpose in the plot is very much manufactured and one of the worst elements, imo. Evelyn Marsh is the most hated aspect of the series for obvious reasons, and in those moments the show is spinning its wheels in a way that has little to do with anything of consequence in an attempt to give a character something to do. Little Nicky is a small blemish to me, but I love Dick Tremayne so much that he gets me through it. All of those moments are bad in my opinion, because of and beyond reasons you suggest. But what I'd point out is that those moments only occur in less than a third of the season's episodes, and even then there are sequences in each of those episodes that provide some level of mystery. So yeah, I think there's some bad stuff, but I also think that there's enough good stuff - mysterious plot related stuff, funny asides and character moments - in most of the episodes that the season balances out to a win, gradually regaining momentum around episode 25 or so. Which is all to say that other than a handful of bad episodes, I think the season is a bit better than its reputation suggests. In its stretch of episodes from 17 thru 28, it doesn't feel all that much different from a lot of that period's decent TV, and still more creative than some of today's prestige programs.

Return to “Twin Peaks Movie, TV, Books”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests