Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 02, 2019 6:33 pm

LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?

I don't think so. I think Lynch cast her because he thought she'd be right for it when he met her, that's all. And she was, wasn't she?


There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.


Not to mention the real-world rationale for Gordon’s name being the thing that wakes Cooper up from his Dougie-slumber. That’s several layers of meta all on its own (referencing early TP’s penchant for using names from classic noir films and Lynch’s love for the film Sunset Boulevard; Gordon’s significance to Cooper paralleling Lynch’s relationship with Kyle; the fact that Sunset Boulevard is itself a very metatextual movie about making movies; famed director Cecil B. DeMille playing himself in the film saying the line, just as Lynch is essentially playing himself; the reference to the futility of engaging in nostalgia and trying to “get the band back together”; etc.).
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Thu May 02, 2019 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 02, 2019 6:54 pm

baxter wrote:One thing I forgot to make clearer: the Diane that Cooper meets when he exits the lodge (the second time we see it) is therefore the real Diane that has not been raped by a Doppelganger, since this never happened in that timeline. But she has a memory of it happening in another version of events, that is now receding.


While I like Mark’s books, I don’t really buy into the straightforward “parallel universe” thing he seems to be implying at the end of TFD. What happens in the show feels a lot more nuanced to me (and even what Mark seems to be getting at with the conflicting accounts of things that took place way before 1989 in TSHoTP, like Robert Jacoby’s multiple death dates, feels like’s getting at something more like the membrane between realities collapsing, as opposed to a simple story of two diverging universes). But in any event, even if we’re assuming Cooper’s actions cause a new parallel universe where Laura is missing as opposed to dead, I don’t get the sense that Cooper’s fate in the new reality is all that different. He still comes to Twin Peaks, and goes missing under pretty much the exact same circumstances as the original timeline. I don’t see any reason to believe the doppel doesn’t still rape Diane in that reality.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Fri May 03, 2019 12:30 am

My reasoning is simply that there is no longer a doppelganger to rape her. Cooper destroyed it, then changed events. So when he goes into the lodge again, there is nothing to stop him leaving again, so he just walks out and meets the unraped Diane
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TwinsPeak » Fri May 03, 2019 6:16 am

LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?

I don't think so. I think Lynch cast her because he thought she'd be right for it when he met her, that's all. And she was, wasn't she?


There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.



That's very similar to my thoughts as well. "Real World", any thoughts on the Chalfont's owning the house previous to the real owners?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri May 03, 2019 10:20 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
Not to mention the real-world rationale for Gordon’s name being the thing that wakes Cooper up from his Dougie-slumber. That’s several layers of meta all on its own (referencing early TP’s penchant for using names from classic noir films and Lynch’s love for the film Sunset Boulevard; Gordon’s significance to Cooper paralleling Lynch’s relationship with Kyle; the fact that Sunset Boulevard is itself a very metatextual movie about making movies; famed director Cecil B. DeMille playing himself in the film saying the line, just as Lynch is essentially playing himself; the reference to the futility of engaging in nostalgia and trying to “get the band back together”; etc.).


Yep, that's a big one. Especially after episode 13, such instances increasingly mount, but as you said before that Sunset Blvd scene in particular is one of the most dauntingly complex layered moments in anything-history. Such instances really give you the uncomfortable and disorienting impression throughout of reality encroaching on the events of the series, directly tying into the themes and multiple realities and subjective POVs.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri May 03, 2019 10:32 am

TwinsPeak wrote:
LateReg wrote:There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.



That's very similar to my thoughts as well. "Real World", any thoughts on the Chalfont's owning the house previous to the real owners?


Perhaps it is the ultimate demonstration of the intersection of realities, and the disorientation of such intersection. That could apply to levels of dream and "reality," film and filmmaking, etc. The ultimate representation of being caught between two worlds. Not only that, but the ultimate statement on how reality is never this natural thing, but is controlled by forces beyond our comprehension. It certainly FEELS that way, anyway, as though something that SHOULD NOT be happening, is happening.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:03 am

About to begin my rewatch of Part 18, coming to the end of a full rewatch. Wow! This topic has 89 pages but Part 17 only has 12. What's up with that? LOL!
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:13 am

Jonah wrote:About to begin my rewatch of Part 18, coming to the end of a full rewatch. Wow! This topic has 89 pages but Part 17 only has 12. What's up with that? LOL!


Probably because they both aired on the same night, this is the repository for both Part 17 and 18 comments.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:46 am

Just finished my first full rewatch. I liked Part 17 when it first aired but I really hated this episode the first time I saw it, I even called it the worst finale of any TV show ever, I was so pissed off lol. I don't feel this way anymore. I think I like it? But not sure.

I'm going to reread through some of this thread, and I know the final episode is still open to many interpretations, but has any main consensus been reached among the fandom about what happened?

I'm guessing Cooper somehow went back in time in Part 17 and saved Laura from being murdered, so her body disappears in the original timeline and hence Laura Palmer was never killed there. (And may still be alive there?)

But when he tried to lead her home, she was ripped away from him. By the Lodge? By Judy? And why - because he's not allowed prevent a death/rewrite the past?

So did Judy - or the Lodge, or others - imprison (or hide?) Laura in the Odessa dimension as "Carrie Page" or is she a double of Laura Palmer and Laura Palmer is still alive in the original world?

Was the Giant trying to warn Cooper in Part 1 about Richard and Linda at 430 (and Jefferies in Part 17 saying "remember" - was he trying to warn him too?) not to do the crossing. But why would it matter if they did? Seems this happened AFTER Cooper tried - and failed - to save Laura, so why not warn him not to try to save Laura instead?

Ok anyway, they get to Odessa. Why is there another Diane there outside the motel? Why do Dale and Diane become Richard and Linda (or do they?) Who are Richard and Linda? Why does Linda (Diane) run away? Why does the motel and the car change? Why does Judy - if this is indeed Judy's world - allow Dale/Richard to take Laura/Carrie? Who is the dead man?

The Tremonds in the house at the end seem to mean Lodge interference. But why isn't Judy just there to attack them?

Why does Laura hear Sarah in the end? Is she remembering who she is (assuming she's Laura)? Why does Dale/Richard ask what year it is and why is he looking at the ground when he does?

If Laura/Carrie screaming at the end and the lights going out is her waking up from the dream (as Laura alive in the other dimension?), does that mean the whole world was destroyed, like a dream dies on waking? Or is Dale/Richard the one dreaming and that's why he asks "what year is it?", sort of a lucid dreaming question to realize he's in the dream? Or are they both dreaming? Or is everyone dreaming? Is Judy dreaming too?

So many questions. But no answers! Lots of fun to think about.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:18 pm

Jonah wrote:I'm guessing Cooper somehow went back in time in Part 17 and saved Laura from being murdered, so her body disappears in the original timeline and hence Laura Palmer was never killed there. (And may still be alive there?)

But when he tried to lead her home, she was ripped away from him. By the Lodge? By Judy? And why - because he's not allowed prevent a death/rewrite the past?

So did Judy - or the Lodge, or others - imprison (or hide?) Laura in the Odessa dimension as "Carrie Page" or is she a double of Laura Palmer and Laura Palmer is still alive in the original world?



Listen to the sounds. When Laura is taken away in the woods we hear the sound of the Arm's dobbleganger (to me that is made clear in episode 2 that the sound we first hear on the Fireman's record player is the signature sound of the dobbleganger).

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