Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 02, 2019 6:33 pm

LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?

I don't think so. I think Lynch cast her because he thought she'd be right for it when he met her, that's all. And she was, wasn't she?


There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.


Not to mention the real-world rationale for Gordon’s name being the thing that wakes Cooper up from his Dougie-slumber. That’s several layers of meta all on its own (referencing early TP’s penchant for using names from classic noir films and Lynch’s love for the film Sunset Boulevard; Gordon’s significance to Cooper paralleling Lynch’s relationship with Kyle; the fact that Sunset Boulevard is itself a very metatextual movie about making movies; famed director Cecil B. DeMille playing himself in the film saying the line, just as Lynch is essentially playing himself; the reference to the futility of engaging in nostalgia and trying to “get the band back together”; etc.).
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 02, 2019 6:54 pm

baxter wrote:One thing I forgot to make clearer: the Diane that Cooper meets when he exits the lodge (the second time we see it) is therefore the real Diane that has not been raped by a Doppelganger, since this never happened in that timeline. But she has a memory of it happening in another version of events, that is now receding.


While I like Mark’s books, I don’t really buy into the straightforward “parallel universe” thing he seems to be implying at the end of TFD. What happens in the show feels a lot more nuanced to me (and even what Mark seems to be getting at with the conflicting accounts of things that took place way before 1989 in TSHoTP, like Robert Jacoby’s multiple death dates, feels like’s getting at something more like the membrane between realities collapsing, as opposed to a simple story of two diverging universes). But in any event, even if we’re assuming Cooper’s actions cause a new parallel universe where Laura is missing as opposed to dead, I don’t get the sense that Cooper’s fate in the new reality is all that different. He still comes to Twin Peaks, and goes missing under pretty much the exact same circumstances as the original timeline. I don’t see any reason to believe the doppel doesn’t still rape Diane in that reality.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Fri May 03, 2019 12:30 am

My reasoning is simply that there is no longer a doppelganger to rape her. Cooper destroyed it, then changed events. So when he goes into the lodge again, there is nothing to stop him leaving again, so he just walks out and meets the unraped Diane
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TwinsPeak » Fri May 03, 2019 6:16 am

LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?

I don't think so. I think Lynch cast her because he thought she'd be right for it when he met her, that's all. And she was, wasn't she?


There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.



That's very similar to my thoughts as well. "Real World", any thoughts on the Chalfont's owning the house previous to the real owners?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri May 03, 2019 10:20 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
Not to mention the real-world rationale for Gordon’s name being the thing that wakes Cooper up from his Dougie-slumber. That’s several layers of meta all on its own (referencing early TP’s penchant for using names from classic noir films and Lynch’s love for the film Sunset Boulevard; Gordon’s significance to Cooper paralleling Lynch’s relationship with Kyle; the fact that Sunset Boulevard is itself a very metatextual movie about making movies; famed director Cecil B. DeMille playing himself in the film saying the line, just as Lynch is essentially playing himself; the reference to the futility of engaging in nostalgia and trying to “get the band back together”; etc.).


Yep, that's a big one. Especially after episode 13, such instances increasingly mount, but as you said before that Sunset Blvd scene in particular is one of the most dauntingly complex layered moments in anything-history. Such instances really give you the uncomfortable and disorienting impression throughout of reality encroaching on the events of the series, directly tying into the themes and multiple realities and subjective POVs.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri May 03, 2019 10:32 am

TwinsPeak wrote:
LateReg wrote:There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.



That's very similar to my thoughts as well. "Real World", any thoughts on the Chalfont's owning the house previous to the real owners?


Perhaps it is the ultimate demonstration of the intersection of realities, and the disorientation of such intersection. That could apply to levels of dream and "reality," film and filmmaking, etc. The ultimate representation of being caught between two worlds. Not only that, but the ultimate statement on how reality is never this natural thing, but is controlled by forces beyond our comprehension. It certainly FEELS that way, anyway, as though something that SHOULD NOT be happening, is happening.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:03 am

About to begin my rewatch of Part 18, coming to the end of a full rewatch. Wow! This topic has 89 pages but Part 17 only has 12. What's up with that? LOL!
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:13 am

Jonah wrote:About to begin my rewatch of Part 18, coming to the end of a full rewatch. Wow! This topic has 89 pages but Part 17 only has 12. What's up with that? LOL!


Probably because they both aired on the same night, this is the repository for both Part 17 and 18 comments.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:46 am

Just finished my first full rewatch. I liked Part 17 when it first aired but I really hated this episode the first time I saw it, I even called it the worst finale of any TV show ever, I was so pissed off lol. I don't feel this way anymore. I think I like it? But not sure.

I'm going to reread through some of this thread, and I know the final episode is still open to many interpretations, but has any main consensus been reached among the fandom about what happened?

I'm guessing Cooper somehow went back in time in Part 17 and saved Laura from being murdered, so her body disappears in the original timeline and hence Laura Palmer was never killed there. (And may still be alive there?)

But when he tried to lead her home, she was ripped away from him. By the Lodge? By Judy? And why - because he's not allowed prevent a death/rewrite the past?

So did Judy - or the Lodge, or others - imprison (or hide?) Laura in the Odessa dimension as "Carrie Page" or is she a double of Laura Palmer and Laura Palmer is still alive in the original world?

Was the Giant trying to warn Cooper in Part 1 about Richard and Linda at 430 (and Jefferies in Part 17 saying "remember" - was he trying to warn him too?) not to do the crossing. But why would it matter if they did? Seems this happened AFTER Cooper tried - and failed - to save Laura, so why not warn him not to try to save Laura instead?

Ok anyway, they get to Odessa. Why is there another Diane there outside the motel? Why do Dale and Diane become Richard and Linda (or do they?) Who are Richard and Linda? Why does Linda (Diane) run away? Why does the motel and the car change? Why does Judy - if this is indeed Judy's world - allow Dale/Richard to take Laura/Carrie? Who is the dead man?

The Tremonds in the house at the end seem to mean Lodge interference. But why isn't Judy just there to attack them?

Why does Laura hear Sarah in the end? Is she remembering who she is (assuming she's Laura)? Why does Dale/Richard ask what year it is and why is he looking at the ground when he does?

If Laura/Carrie screaming at the end and the lights going out is her waking up from the dream (as Laura alive in the other dimension?), does that mean the whole world was destroyed, like a dream dies on waking? Or is Dale/Richard the one dreaming and that's why he asks "what year is it?", sort of a lucid dreaming question to realize he's in the dream? Or are they both dreaming? Or is everyone dreaming? Is Judy dreaming too?

So many questions. But no answers! Lots of fun to think about.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:18 pm

Jonah wrote:I'm guessing Cooper somehow went back in time in Part 17 and saved Laura from being murdered, so her body disappears in the original timeline and hence Laura Palmer was never killed there. (And may still be alive there?)

But when he tried to lead her home, she was ripped away from him. By the Lodge? By Judy? And why - because he's not allowed prevent a death/rewrite the past?

So did Judy - or the Lodge, or others - imprison (or hide?) Laura in the Odessa dimension as "Carrie Page" or is she a double of Laura Palmer and Laura Palmer is still alive in the original world?



Listen to the sounds. When Laura is taken away in the woods we hear the sound of the Arm's dobbleganger (to me that is made clear in episode 2 that the sound we first hear on the Fireman's record player is the signature sound of the dobbleganger).
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Sun May 31, 2020 10:57 pm

I find it interesting that at Judy's, the old couple are sitting at a table (all the others are stacked up against a wall) and not at a booth. They are sitting side by side and facing the big open space. It's almost as if they are seated to watch the show they know is coming.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:01 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:I find it interesting that at Judy's, the old couple are sitting at a table (all the others are stacked up against a wall) and not at a booth. They are sitting side by side and facing the big open space. It's almost as if they are seated to watch the show they know is coming.


Good call. The older lady also asks what may be the key question of the entire series, mirroring the viewers' own queries: "who is he?" I think this question definitely is meant for the viewer, and it mimics a similar device in Inland Empire where two of the ladies deliberately peer directly into the camera and ask "who is she?" about a mystery character whose face we can't see.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby AXX°N N. » Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:57 pm

I've always seen that interior as a weird distillation of some of the series' social themes. You have the abused woman, the attacker and his accomplices, and you have these two almost imperious elderly citizens who do nothing about it though it's in plain view of them, to an almost spectatorial or even predatory degree on their part. Cooper in this case is the confronter, the one who actually steps out of the path of least resistance and resists the dynamics at play.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:33 pm

That open floor brings to mind The Red Room possibly combined with the Roadhouse.

This part is stuffed with horses, horseshoes and cowboys.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:52 pm

The cut from Dougie saying “home” to Dale leading Laura “home” is a nice contrast, and goes back to what I was saying in the Part 16 thread about how Cooper might have done more good by staying with the family that loved him and not trying to change the world (literally).

“The story of the little girl who lived down the lane” is another one of those beautifully maddening elements of TR that makes sense mostly on an intuitive/dream level. It definitely reminds me of the two “old tales” told by Grace Zabriskie’s character in INLAND EMPIRE, and echoes the last line of “Baa Baa Black Sheep” with the gender flipped. (I know people have pointed out that this is also the title of a horror novel which was turned into a Jodie Foster movie, but I really doubt that was in Lynch’s mind; and I assume this was purely a Lynch innovation, given that it’s in an Audrey scene.) What is the link between Audrey and this EotA scene? Is Audrey the little girl? Is Laura? (Note that Cooper tells Carrie he believes she is “a girl” named Laura Palmer.) Both Audrey and Carrie Page seem to be living in manufactured realities, both possibly as a result of Cooper’s actions (Audrey arguably due to the rape trauma, just as Diane was imprisoned in the Lodge and replaced by a tulpa following her rape, although this is admittedly subject to many interpretations). Are these “stories” used by the Lodge spirits to entrap lost souls and feed on their suffering?

BTW, EotA oddly does not seem to be speaking in reverse-speech on this line. Just speaking with long pauses, but the enunciation is too clear.

I continue to believe that Cooper acts weird in this Part because he gave up the joyful part of himself to stay with the Joneses as Dougie. I also wonder if perhaps overconfidence in his newfound “Magician” abilities (i.e., moving the Red Room curtain with a wave of his hand) leads to the attitude change/more domineering nature. Cooper seems pretty off the second he comes out of the Red Room, but then in the “430” scene with Diane in the car, he seems much more human. He doesn’t necessarily seem like himself, but when he says, “Once we cross, it could all be different,” he seems really sad. It’s after they “cross” that he seems to become almost soulless.

Kyle MacLachlan and Laura Dern in a car inevitably evokes Blue Velvet. We’re a long ways from the robins coming.

What do we make of the other Diane she sees lurking at the motel? I’m inclined to think it’s her doppelganger stalking her. On an abstract level, it feels to me like the trauma of her past following her. She’s trying to be there for Cooper and enact the plan they made together at some ambiguous point in the past (possibly involving sex magick), but the events that went down with Cooper’s doppelganger are never far away. Interesting that the DoppelDiane (or whatever it is) vanishes as soon as Cooper comes back out the door. Maybe this is “Linda,” waiting to take over once the trauma becomes too overwhelming?

For those numerologists out there, they stay in room 7 (Lynch’s favorite number), and 430 also adds up to a 7.

I love the moment when Cooper, shrouded in shadow, says “Diane.” It’s an inversion of the old show, when Diane was the one we couldn’t see as Cooper would say her name into his tape recorder in chipper tones. Kyle’s line reading here creeps me out.

That is such a disturbing sex scene. This version of Cooper doesn’t seem to take joy out of anything. That scene is a nice study in contrasts with the Janey-E sex scene in Part 10. Diane and Janey-E are sisters (however literally you want to take that), and both scenes involve writhing female backs, but Cooper’s reactions are night and day. The Cooper we see in Part 18 seems almost as comatose as our beloved DougieCoop, but instead of arm-flopping joy, he just sits there stone-faced (it sort of makes me laugh in a dark way that he’s playing with her breast completely joylessly). I also think back on his warmth and tenderness in the love scene with Annie in Episode 28 as another contrast. The Cooper we get here is pretty chilling.

The pairing of song to scene is so perfect, just in terms of the rhythm, but also the lyrics. “My prayer and the answer you give, may they still be the same just as long as we live.” It’s clear from Diane’s face, even before she leaves the “Linda” letter, that things between her and Cooper are never going to be the same again.

This isn’t your father’s Dale Cooper! He wakes up in the motel in his boxers. No blue pajamas, no upturned cowlick.

It’s really unclear how many levels of unreality deep we go in this Part. It’s ambiguous what universe we’re in when Cooper emerges from the Red Room (original universe? Altered continuity “Laura disappeared” universe? Somewhere else entirely?). Cooper and Diane then cross over to somewhere else when they pass the 430 mark, and of course Cooper once again seems to end up somewhere else entirely after the sex scene.

I’m not sure what the deal is with Richard and Linda, although I’m in good company, since Mark Frost also isn’t sure! I’d do a lot of things I’m not proud of to see just the portion of the script relating to this Part, to see how much was changed/added. The Fireman references Richard and Linda in Part 1, yet Cooper seems confused here, despite him remembering 430.

The name Richard obviously evokes the spawn of the doppel’s other rape, again indicating the importance of Audrey in all this. The “will they or won’t they, but also, she’s in high school” nature of the Cooper/Audrey dynamic on the original series is one of the most fun, charming, controversial, confusing, polarizing, fascinating and gossipy elements of the series’ legacy. It feels appropriate that, in some abstract sense, Cooper’s guilt over his feelings for Audrey, and what they led to when the doppel got out, seems to play into things here, with him being given a name that links him to the doppel’s sin.

Linda is of course another near-anagram of Diane, who seems to be hopelessly fragmented due to trauma.

What do we make of the fact that when Dale comes out of the motel to find himself in Texas, he finds Mr. C’s Lincoln Town Car from Part 2/3 waiting for him in the parking lot? As far as talismans go, that certainly doesn’t bode well for “our” Cooper. I’ve encountered, and toyed with, the notion that when the Doppel is destroyed at the top of this hour, he is reintegrated into Cooper Prime, explaining why Cooper’s demeanor seems more dour, his delivery slower, and his behavior occasionally borderline-sinister. Maybe it’s a combination of all the things I’ve mentioned (giving up part of himself to make a Dougie tulpa, having the doppel reintegrated, and becoming overly prideful with his advanced connection to the spirit world) that lead to the perfect storm of a Cooper ill-suited to carry out this task. It definitely doesn’t seem like a coincidence that Lynch starts the hour with the doppel’s destruction and the tulpa’s creation, before settling in with the “real” Cooper for the rest of the Part. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Another thing I never noticed before: when Dale first sees Eat at Judy’s from his car, there is a white horse out front! It’s one of those children’s coin-activated riding horses you see at tacky rest stops (see 26:28). Damn!

For all the complaints about Sky Ferreira’s empty beer can in Part 9, I’ve never seen anyone complain about the fact that Cooper is clearly drinking from an empty coffee mug in this Part.

A detail I don’t recall seeing mentioned (perhaps further demonstrating the breakdown of reality, or maybe just a continuity error): after Cooper’s confrontation with the cowboys, he only picks up two guns (the second cowboy appears to reach for a gun in his rear waistband right before Dale shoots him in the foot, but Cooper never takes that gun off him). Then, when he gets behind the counter, Dale magically has a third gun (not counting his own), a revolver he wasn’t carrying a second earlier.

Carrie’s first question when she opens the door is, “Did you find him?” I never made this connection before, but might she be referring to Billy?

I still really don’t know what to make of Tommy the loan shark from Part 6 seemingly being dead on Carrie’s couch. For awhile I thought that was a Bob-orb popping out of his chest, but now I’m not entirely sure. He definitely has a really distinctive bulge going on there, but the coloring of the material sticking out of his shirt looks more like a mixture of creamed corn and motor oil, like when Mr. C vomited or when the Bob-orb got punched through the floor. Upon closer inspection, he also has creamed corn pouring out the back of his head from the gunshot wound! Assuming it is an orb, I guess the idea is that Bob is still pursuing Laura across time and space to obtain her as a host? I’d watch a spinoff of Carrie Page just blasting Bob-host after Bob-host, Ash/‘Evil Dead’-style.

Apropos of nothing, there appears to be a half-eaten TV dinner just sitting on the windowsill next to the corpse. Carrie Page’s lifestyle is pretty gross.

Sheryl’s adeptness at physical comedy is really underrated. She cracks me up as she scampers back and forth in her house gathering what she needs to take with her. Of course, the “clean house” bit is a wonderful little dramatic mini-monologue. And this Part could serve as the Sheryl Lee scream demo. Part of me wishes L/F had found a way to give Sheryl/Laura more to do in TR, but her performance as Carrie here is a treasure I’m grateful to have.

I know much has been made of the presence of Mary Reber (or a Tremond who looks like her), and the idea that Dale and Carrie may have stumbled into our “reality.” However, Lynch deliberately shows that the diner still has the “RR” sign up, indicating that Twin Peaks is still Twin Peaks to at least some degree.

I like that Dale takes Carrie’s hand as he leads her to the Palmer house, just as he took Laura’s when bringing her “home” earlier.

In light of the Part 16 title, it’s interesting and slightly baffling that Cooper eschews doorbells throughout this Part. He knocks on both Carrie’s door and the Palmer/Tremond door, and in the latter case seems to glance at the doorbell and then decide not to use it.

Sarah is an interesting presence/non-presence in this Part. Carrie doesn’t have any reaction to her own real name or Leland’s, but when Dale says her mother’s name is Sarah, she seems disturbed. And it’s ultimately Sarah’s voice calling for her in the Pilot (which she never got to hear in real life) that seems to trigger her. Lynch has reused that scene/audio of Sarah calling Laura’s name multiple times throughout the series. It works so well on an intuitive level, but it’s tough to put into words what it means.

I still get goosebumps when all the lights surge and then suddenly go out in the house, even though I know it’s coming. It’s really an electric moment, pun intended.

Dale’s Diet, the Final Installment:
— Coffee at Eat at Judy’s (he seems thoroughly nonplussed, although this Dale doesn’t seem to enjoy much of anything)
— He tells Carrie he’ll get them food on the way, and they go inside a Valero gas station, but we don’t see what they buy

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