General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:08 pm

One of the things that I see some people point out as a negative about the show is that it was just a bunch of ideas that David and Mark had built up over the years that have nothing to do with Twin Peaks, but that seems like a good thing to me and something they did with the original series. Whether you're looking at the transition out of the Monroe bio or Lynch's idea for "I'll Test My Log with Every Branch of Knowledge" creating one of the most memorable Peaks characters. There's nothing wrong with disliking those ideas they had, but painting pulling together prior ideas that they may have been been mulling over as a negative has always seemed odd to me.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Cde. » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:00 pm

bowisneski wrote:One of the things that I see some people point out as a negative about the show is that it was just a bunch of ideas that David and Mark had built up over the years that have nothing to do with Twin Peaks, but that seems like a good thing to me and something they did with the original series. Whether you're looking at the transition out of the Monroe bio or Lynch's idea for "I'll Test My Log with Every Branch of Knowledge" creating one of the most memorable Peaks characters. There's nothing wrong with disliking those ideas they had, but painting pulling together prior ideas that they may have been been mulling over as a negative has always seemed odd to me.
Especially because they wouldn't have just thrown in any old thing, but the ideas that they could see fitting in with what 'Twin Peaks' is to them. And both Mark and David had veto power, so they would not have allowed the other to sabotage the TP-ness of the thing.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Kilmoore » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:48 pm

bowisneski wrote: There's nothing wrong with disliking those ideas they had, but painting pulling together prior ideas that they may have been been mulling over as a negative has always seemed odd to me.

That's not really the issue. The issue is the end result looks like the Twin Peaks name is just painted on to secure budget. Like the they abused the persistent fandom to do their pet art project. I paid for a subscription service to see Twin Peaks, and I feel ripped off.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby mtwentz » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:39 am

Kilmoore wrote:
bowisneski wrote: There's nothing wrong with disliking those ideas they had, but painting pulling together prior ideas that they may have been been mulling over as a negative has always seemed odd to me.

That's not really the issue. The issue is the end result looks like the Twin Peaks name is just painted on to secure budget. Like the they abused the persistent fandom to do their pet art project. I paid for a subscription service to see Twin Peaks, and I feel ripped off.


Twin Peaks is, and always has been, Lynch's and Frost's pet art project.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Kilmoore » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:02 am

mtwentz wrote:Twin Peaks is, and always has been, Lynch's and Frost's pet art project.


Of course it is, and I fully acknowledge they don't owe me anything just because I'm a fan of the original Twin Peaks. I just feel like advertising under the name Twin Peaks, claiming it's Cooper's journey back into Twin Peaks and then delivering Dougie Show with a dozen pointless side characters is false advertising.
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TwinsPeak
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby TwinsPeak » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:04 am

I too was disappointed with a lot of the Return, like the roadhouse scenes, the slow pacing, the lack of character development. Like Ray Wise I wanted it more like the Original or like FWWM, I wanted it more about the original cast members. I'm probably wrong for that but its how I feel, I also was way too exited for it before it came out, I was kind of obsessed and wanted too much from it. However I paid $40 for a two month subscription of Showtime and HBO and got 18 hours of new Twin Peaks, I wasn't ripped off at all, it was something I thought would never happen and I would pay way more to see another season or movie.


(I've only watched the Return once, each episode a few times as they came out, so I'm hoping to like it more, the next time I watch it, also there were some parts I really enjoyed and anything Twin Peaks is a dream come true for me even if I wanted it more like the original)
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AXX°N N.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby AXX°N N. » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:15 pm

Kilmoore wrote:I just feel like advertising under the name Twin Peaks, claiming it's Cooper's journey back into Twin Peaks and then delivering Dougie Show with a dozen pointless side characters is false advertising.

But what was Twin Peaks?

At the time, similar things were levied against it; during season 1, come the night of the finale, it was popularly hated as a show that billed itself as a procedural that had the audacity to not wrap up its case. People acted like they were robbed of a solution when instead Cooper was shot in a cliffhanger, having built up expectation a solution would come, mostly because the media had themselves built up that expectation, from thin air. Then we all know what happened--it was forced to appeal to the desires of the consensus, then abandoned by those who cared only about the idea of resolution, eternally unsatisfied. The original show was full of 'pointless side characters' like Cappy, the bank teller who takes 10 minutes to step three feet, Toad, and the Pilot especially is a litany of side characters who never return again. Watching the S2 opener with friends, there was intense bewilderment that it wasn't how they expected. Many dropped out at the first hint of supernatural goings-ons that seemed irreconcilable with just being a dream. Senior Droolcup made people ANGRY because of how slow he moved. Why did Donna suddenly have a redheaded sister?

TP was a show with character, certain genre trappings, and conventionally enjoyable elements. But above all it was the unique manner it was written with, that Frost and Lynch shared, that seemed to me the sole reason for them to care about creating it, and that gave it any lasting quality. It was subversive in its core.

S3 is much like FWWM. Loathed and loved in equal measure, and really stubborn. If FWWM was written by consensus, nobody would have made it a brutal experience where you almost feel you share in Laura's victomhood. But I can't imagine it any way other than totally dedicated to being honest about her, and immortalizing what happened to her that all along, in the lived reality, wasn't just a plot device for a sprawling writing style. S3 does follow Cooper, and is his journey back, taking for consideration and sticking with it the idea that leaving the Lodge is not so easy and not so comforting that it can be easily undone in an immediate deus ex machina. And just like Laura's experience being hellish and confusing, it feels more honest and makes more sense (to me at least) that Cooper is scarred, and the show, in a way, is also scarred. It never could be anything but, given the murder the original series had to endure, and given the metatextual approach that seemed an important and consistent part of the franchise. I find it pessimistic to treat such creative liberties as tedious when it really feels to me an exultant act, and always has. Even the revelation of Leland was treated in this way, though it was a decision from above; I always found it to be so horrifying that it was like I was seeing something I should have never wanted to see.
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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 pm

TwinsPeak wrote:I'm probably wrong

Definitely not. Especially with level headed thinking like this
TwinsPeak wrote:I paid $40 for a two month subscription of Showtime and HBO and got 18 hours of new Twin Peaks, I wasn't ripped off at all, it was something I thought would never happen and I would pay way more to see another season or movie.

It’s a piece of art and as with any piece of art some love it, have no feeling one way or the other about it, or hate it. It’s unfortunate that that’s the way it goes and sucks that it didn’t satisfy everyone though, that would’ve been quite a feat. Personally, I love about 85% of it, am ambivalent on about 10%, and dislike about 5%.

And I will say if you plan to watch it again, try to watch 2-3 episodes per night and at watch them every night or every other night if you can. I wouldn’t trade the week to week experience for anything, but it really works much better watched that way.
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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:16 am

Kilmoore wrote:
bowisneski wrote: There's nothing wrong with disliking those ideas they had, but painting pulling together prior ideas that they may have been been mulling over as a negative has always seemed odd to me.

That's not really the issue. The issue is the end result looks like the Twin Peaks name is just painted on to secure budget. Like the they abused the persistent fandom to do their pet art project. I paid for a subscription service to see Twin Peaks, and I feel ripped off.

Hey, you feel how you feel. I was just commenting because that seemed a lot like how they wrote the Pilot, just took the things they like and made them Twin Peaks and it seems like that's what they did again.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Hester Prynne » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:52 pm

I’m starting to wonder if the best way to watch Twin Peaks is in reverse - with The Return first, followed by the tv series, and ending with FWWM. I’ve started rewatching the original series after a rewatch of The Return and oddly it seems to flow in contrast to how foreign and alien The Return felt watching it after 25 years since the tv series ended. I have a friend that has never seen Twin Peaks, so am hoping to use her as a guinea pig to see if this works.

For me it worked because the tv series picks up after Carrie’s awakening and we hear Sarah’s cry of “Laura” in the first part of the tv series - almost like the show is a recount of Carrie’s “real” life.
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TwinsPeak
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby TwinsPeak » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:06 am

bowisneski wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:I'm probably wrong

Definitely not. Especially with level headed thinking like this

Thanks man, I thought I was going to get a thrashing from the Peaks community. Also, I too enjoyed most of the Return



Hester Prynne wrote:I’m starting to wonder if the best way to watch Twin Peaks is in reverse - with The Return first, followed by the tv series, and ending with FWWM. I’ve started rewatching the original series after a rewatch of The Return and oddly it seems to flow in contrast to how foreign and alien The Return felt watching it after 25 years since the tv series ended. I have a friend that has never seen Twin Peaks, so am hoping to use her as a guinea pig to see if this works.

For me it worked because the tv series picks up after Carrie’s awakening and we hear Sarah’s cry of “Laura” in the first part of the tv series - almost like the show is a recount of Carrie’s “real” life.


I'm not sure I agree but there used to be a guy posting in here preaching before the Return came out that the Return was the beginning and we had already seen the end....Maybe he wasn't just some crazy loon.
With all the time travel and prequels and time loops its really hard to say forsure…..I guess the real question is, when did Cooper 1st go into the lodge...
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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:07 pm

I couldn't find this posted anywhere, but you can see the Combined Dialogue and Continuity Lists for all 18 parts here https://12ptcourier.com/screenwriting/2018-emmy-scripts-download-pdf-all-nominees/

Since we don't know who wrote this there is probably nothing actually important, but here are a couple things that were interesting to me on skim

    - Part 14 labels the girl who saw Billy last as Experiment
    - Cooper is labeled Dougie throughout, even in the opening Fireman scene and after he becomes Richard, while Mr. C is labeled Dale
    - Diane sees her Doppelganger in Part 18
    - Description of BOB being vomited "Man vomits as he is floating in a warp hole. Push in to vomit. CU molecules."
    - Laura is called Laura everywhere except for after Dougie crosses over where she is Carrie
    - from Andy's vision "A Mysterious Creature starts to appear. A baby vomiting appears as the Mysterious Creature disappears."
    - Naido is referred to as Blind Woman in some parts and Naido in others
    - American Woman is labeled Naido
    - The golden pool is "Hole with water turning clockwise" when Mr. C approaches it
    - Frogmoth just called Creature
    - Mysterious Creature is how Experiment is labeled
    - Phillip Jeffries resides in the White Lodge
    - The scene where Naido becomes Diane - "Reverse to MCU Blind Woman.... Smoke coming out from her head. Dissolve to push in MCU Blind Woman. She is in a room. Her Head opens and she disappears. A mirror Floats and Diane's face appears. Intercut to MCU Diane. Blind woman turn into DIane."
    - When we enter the FWwM portion of Part 17 "EXT. Palmers House- Flashback." and the Palmer House is sometimes called just House or White House
    - For some reason, Part 8 has the part 17 credits
    - The end of Part 18 is described as follows "WS Alice's House. Lights go out. Fade to black. Fade in MCU Dougie and Laura. Laura whispering something at Dougie. Fade to black."

I'm sure there's more of note, but my lunch break is over.
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:19 pm

Possibly a combination of errors / mixups and rewrites? I see that "Doc Hayward" delivers Jacoby's lines during the shovel drop-off.
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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:08 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:Possibly a combination of errors / mixups and rewrites? I see that "Doc Hayward" delivers Jacoby's lines during the shovel drop-off.

That's what I was wondering. With no author, they could be based on Cori Glazer, Lynch, and Dunham's script/editing notes or they could have just been written by a Showtime employee. And they're all dated 3/27/17 but there's no way they were all written on the same day, so I'm not sure if that's the day they were given to the Emmy's/Showtime or something else.

While it won't be anything like reading the real script, I think I'm going to type this up in Fade In just because I'm interested to see how it reads vs how it watches.
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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:48 pm

I managed to get through Bill's arrest if anyone wants to take a look and provide feedback. I tried to keep it as close to verbatim as possible, but in some places I added a "to" or slightly adjusted phrasing.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XnwFoNdJ16dJHu9KMhqlUi5mZoyJRZrF/view?usp=sharing

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