Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:02 am

So that's it for Red, right? I can appreciate most of the season's dangling threads as slice-of-life/shaggy-dog storytelling, but this one feels egregious. While the Part 6 Red/Richard scene functions as its own standalone brilliantly weird thing, his two brief scenes with Shelly feel like set-up for SOMETHING.

I know people have been tough on Shelly for abandoning her family (briefly) during a crisis to smooch her boyfriend. But honestly, if my adult daughter had stolen my car and nearly killed me earlier in the day, I might not be in the most maternal mood either.

Even if I'd hated everything else in these 18 hours, I think S3 would be worth it for the moment when DKL yells, "Dirty...bearded...men...in a room!"

Knepper has some GREAT comic reactions whenever Bradley mentions his dream ("Aggh, the dream!" "Ah fuck."). Belushi also plays all this material to the hilt ("One...certain...thing." "Cherry piiiiiiieeeeeee"). I'm a little ambivalent about the murderous Mitchums being transformed into lovable scoundrels, and Coop giving them his seal of approval in Part 16, but they are undeniably a ton of fun to watch.

I really wish Badalamenti's upbeat piano compositions had been released. I enjoy it when he gets to write in various styles, but these in particular must have been a ball for him to write ("Italian restaurant background music"), and it shows.

Probably no significance, but the mother of the kid who fires the gun is credited as "Carrie."
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:57 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:So that's it for Red, right? I can appreciate most of the season's dangling threads as slice-of-life/shaggy-dog storytelling, but this one feels egregious. While the Part 6 Red/Richard scene functions as its own standalone brilliantly weird thing, his two brief scenes with Shelly feel like set-up for SOMETHING."


I actually love how they left this one. Red smuggles Sparkle into Twin Peaks. This eventually leads to Shelley and Bobby's daughter being murdered by her Sparkle addict boyfriend. What will Shelley do when she realises Red's role in this? How will Bobby react. It leaves room to dream not to mention being explosive narrative ammunition should there be a season four.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:10 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:So that's it for Red, right? I can appreciate most of the season's dangling threads as slice-of-life/shaggy-dog storytelling, but this one feels egregious. While the Part 6 Red/Richard scene functions as its own standalone brilliantly weird thing, his two brief scenes with Shelly feel like set-up for SOMETHING."


I actually love how they left this one. Red smuggles Sparkle into Twin Peaks. This eventually leads to Shelley and Bobby's daughter being murdered by her Sparkle addict boyfriend. What will Shelley do when she realises Red's role in this? How will Bobby react. It leaves room to dream not to mention being explosive narrative ammunition should there be a season four.


Hmmm. I like this, although we only see Steven using garden-variety cocaine ("designer drug" typically means a pill). Also, I'm not certain that Becky is dead, since Bobby in Part 17 doesn't come across as a man whose daughter was just murdered. But time is strange in this season, so it's tough to know when the Steven/Gersten scene occurs in relation to the green glove fight, I guess. Maybe it's more concurrent than the editing makes it seem.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:12 pm

Do we know what the Log Lady is referring to with where the fire is? The White Lodge/Jack Rabbit's Palace? That wouldn't make sense though because that's apparently a zone of "good"... perhaps the scene from earlier in the season when Hawk sniffs around Glastonbury Grove is out of sequence?
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:32 pm

A few observations:

Maybe I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone mention that there is a sign for a Masonic lodge (Unity Lodge 189) in the background of the establishing shot of the Double R! Sure enough, I looked it up and this is a real location a few doors down from Twede’s. Does Mark know about this? If so, how did he resist at least mentioning it in his books? Did DKL get that shot because Frost asked him to, or in tribute to his colleague, knowing his fascinations? Is it possible the whole thing is a coincidence and neither creator even realizes that’s in the show? (DKL didn’t pay much attention to background signage elsewhere, such as Ike’s motel which is clearly in LA...a pet peeve I know I’ve mentioned before.) BTW, in reality, just next door to the Masonic lodge address in North Bend is a firearm store, presumably where Russ shops. That block is really straight out of Mark Frost’s dreams/nightmares.

Speaking of background signage, Blue Man Group is officially a part of TP canon thanks to Dougie’s stock-footage cruise down the strip. Recall that in MLMT, Cooper twice sees a man painted blue standing outside his window. I assume this will end up being key to season 4. ;)

It’s tough to tell, but Becky and Steven’s window doesn’t look like it has a hole in it yet. Is it possible that the order of the scenes was reversed in editing, and this sequence was originally meant to come before the “coffee cup” fight? That would explain why Steven is so angry, as well as his “I know what you did.” Not that sociopathic wifebeaters need to be rationally explained. (Interestingly, there are two windows in this Part that DO have holes in them — the derelict Buckhorn house and the Double R post-gunshot. No idea what to make of that, if anything.)

The way DKL shoots the inside of Becky’s & Steven’s trailer is interesting — we never really get a good sense of the space. He almost invariably uses extreme angles (kind of funny to recall how Tim Hunter got away with murder by using a single Dutch angle back in the first season) which immerse us in Becky’s hellish, disorienting mental state. It works really effectively emotionally, but I can’t help but wonder if DKL was dissatisfied with the set and trying to shoot around it.

It’s a real pity that neither Showtime nor Michael Horse seems to be selling prints of Hawk’s map. I’d love to hang one on my wall as a companion piece to the DKL-painted Twin Peaks map.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:21 pm

The last scene of this episode (with Dougie, the Mitchum Brothers, Candie, and the old lady from the casino) is one of my favourite moments from The Return - and up there with some of my favourite moments from the original series, such as the penguin joke.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:45 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:It’s tough to tell, but Becky and Steven’s window doesn’t look like it has a hole in it yet. Is it possible that the order of the scenes was reversed in editing, and this sequence was originally meant to come before the “coffee cup” fight? That would explain why Steven is so angry, as well as his “I know what you did.” Not that sociopathic wifebeaters need to be rationally explained.


I was able to confirm withs someone in the know that these scenes are in the correct order in terms of that story. The breaking of the window and abuse is first, then Becky freaking out and stealing Shelly's car.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri May 22, 2020 8:00 pm

Like the prior Part, this one begins with Miriam, followed by Becky & Steven. Lynch's editing of TR is so purposeful and interesting.

All of the stuff about Richard running over the kid sort of peters out at a certain point storywise. I'm struggling to remember what else happens after this.

It's a nice touch that kids (including Mark's!) find Miriam, after she was nearly killed for watching a child get run over.

We've discussed before how there's a possibility that the order of the Becky & Steven scenes from Part 10 and this one might have been reversed in editing (it would be far from the only time in TR), and people seemed to like the idea that Steven is screaming at Becky in Part 10 for shooting up Gersten's door. They're both wearing the same clothes in both scenes, so it appears to be the same day. However, I'm pretty sure the window is broken when Shelly runs up, indicating the coffee mug already happened.

I love that Lynch gives himself the little hero shot, walking through the fence with his gun drawn.

Cole and Albert seem to know about the portals, or at least openings/gateways in general. Gordon asks, "Think there's one in there, Albert?" and Albert answers, "We'll soon find out." Then, after pulling Gordon free, Albert says, "Well, I guess we found out." It's possible they're just going off of what Hastings said, but the phrase/shorthand "one in there" seems to indicate more specific knowledge about multiple openings (Glastonbury Grove presumably being one).

Alas Bill Hastings! Lillard was surprisingly great in the role and he turned out to be a truly memorable character. Sad to see him go, but it's a pretty great iconic death.

I've pointed it out before, probably in this thread, but there's a Masonic Lodge next door to the Mar-T/Double R (in real life, and also visible in the establishing shot in this and other Parts). I really hope Mark noticed that and was delighted. If I ever get a chance to talk to him again at an event, I need to remember to ask him.

It's really heartbreaking watching Shelly and Bobby see their daughter go through the same domestic violence cycle Shelly eventually broke free from with Leo, with a more mature Bobby once again playing the white knight.

The way Lynch uses the Double R's exterior neons and the police car lights to light that great scene, playing with purples and yellows, is beautiful.

Albert mockingly tells Diane that smoking is bad for her. Presumably he’s quit since we saw him smoking in Episodes 2 and 16. (Also, tragic that Miguel Ferrer died of throat cancer shortly after his scenes were shot.)

Here's a nice shot of Hawk's map: https://i.redd.it/q6cmng4o8wbz.jpg. Note that it appears to depict Glastonbury Grove, but there are thirteen trees instead of twelve. There's also an owl, a red horse, and at least two claw-like arms that look a lot like Gordon Cole's drawing from Part 10. (Also, the thing in the bottom right looks a lot like the Angriest Dog in the World!) Once again, Showtime/Horse, you’re really dropping the ball by not selling this as a print.

Blue Pine Mountain gets its first official mention ever in the filmed material, by Hawk. The names of the Peaks are referenced in the ancillary books and trading cards, but rarely on the show. Harry previously referred to Blue Pine Lodge by name in Episode 8, but not the mountain itself. White Tail Mountain was mentioned by Andy in Episode 18 and by Jacoby in Part 5.

Hawk seems to have at least some idea of Judy, or at least has associations with her symbol.

I really like Al the limo driver. He seems like such a sweet guy, although he is presumably witness to his share of murders and beatings.

I've grown to really like the use of the Shawn Colvin "Viva Las Vegas" (which I had forgotten until recently is also featured in The Big Lebowski!). It's not a great recording, but paired with the footage, it provides a tone I can't quite put my finger on, which you don't usually see expressed on film about Vegas (I made this same observation about the use of Johnny Jewel's "The Flame" in Part 5, but that was a different tone, and a better track). The sequence really captures the laziness and almost reassuring artificiality of an afternoon/early evening in Las Vegas quite beautifully.

I may have asked this before, but I'm assuming all that Vegas strip driving footage is stock, right? I was surprised to initially learn that Lynch had used stock overhead establishing shots of NYC and Vegas, then was equally surprised to learn that the establishing shots of South Dakota and Montana were apparently actually shot in SD and Montana by Jason S. while picking up random transition shots for his BTS documentaries! (Or at least, the great Twin Peaks Film Location blog makes a compelling case for this: https://www.twinpeaksblog.com/2019/12/11/twin-peaks-film-location-western-montana-establishing-shots/). It does not appear that anyone went to Vegas at any point, though, although it certainly wouldn't have been that long a trek for Jason S. or a B-camera team to head over there and drive down the strip.

I’m still obsessed with the nomenclature/anagram aspect of Naido/Candie/Mandie/Sandie as potentially different Diane aspects (Dian-O/Diane-C/Diane-M/Diane-S), especially in light of Janey-E. It’s a real Pandora’s box to start to theorize about this, but is Janey-E a tulpa, perhaps part of the same series as Diane Evans (Diane-E)? We know in Part 18 there’s at least one more Diane tulpa running around out there. Are Candie, Sandie and Mandie rejected Diane tulpas who were imperfectly made? Candie seems to be an only slightly more advanced entity than DougieCoop (she expresses original thoughts here and there, but she’s mostly a blank); the other two don’t seem to be capable of doing much besides gazing into middle distance. Where did these three come from? Were they made by DoppelCoop? It feels significant that they’re present when Naido transforms back into the true Diane in Part 17.

DougieCoop's Diet:
— Phil gets him a coffee from Szymon's
— Mike beckons to him from Szymon's and he emerges with a cherry pie (in a VERY large box) which saves his life during the meeting with the Mitchums
— At Santino's, Dougie and the Mitchums have iced water with lemon (VERY iced—it looks like a glass full of ice with a lemon slice on top!) and there is table bread which someone has eaten. Bradley pours them all sparkling wine (I can’t make out the label at 50:14, does anyone recognize it? Coop takes a sip but doesn't seem to enjoy it much). The waitresses serve the Szymon's cherry pie with coffee (Rodney: "This pie is so damn good." Cooper: "Damn good.") Bradley tells Candie to give DougieCoop a second slice as he gobbles his down
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby AXX°N N. » Sat May 23, 2020 2:59 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I've grown to really like the use of the Shawn Colvin "Viva Las Vegas" (which I had forgotten until recently is also featured in The Big Lebowski!). It's not a great recording, but paired with the footage, it provides a tone I can't quite put my finger on, which you don't usually see expressed on film about Vegas (I made this same observation about the use of Johnny Jewel's "The Flame" in Part 5, but that was a different tone, and a better track). The sequence really captures the laziness and almost reassuring artificiality of an afternoon/early evening in Las Vegas quite beautifully.

I also find this scene kind of a sleeper gem. I don't mind the track itself, but it feels rather out of place on the soundtrack album, because really it's the only song that was used in what could be considered an ironic way. I wonder how much Lynch digs the track or not? If he did use it fully for irony, that makes it itself ironic that the people who put the soundtrack together slotted it in there. Then again, he might just genuinely dig it. It's originally on Till the Night is Gone, a tribute compilation album dedicated to Doc Pomus, who Lynch is a professed fan of, and I'm willing to bet that contrary to Big Lebowski or its use in other films, that comp is where he heard it; that comp also has the only album appearance of Lou Reed's cover of This Magic Moment, which Lynch used in Lost Highway.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat May 23, 2020 5:46 pm

AXX°N N. wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I've grown to really like the use of the Shawn Colvin "Viva Las Vegas" (which I had forgotten until recently is also featured in The Big Lebowski!). It's not a great recording, but paired with the footage, it provides a tone I can't quite put my finger on, which you don't usually see expressed on film about Vegas (I made this same observation about the use of Johnny Jewel's "The Flame" in Part 5, but that was a different tone, and a better track). The sequence really captures the laziness and almost reassuring artificiality of an afternoon/early evening in Las Vegas quite beautifully.

I also find this scene kind of a sleeper gem. I don't mind the track itself, but it feels rather out of place on the soundtrack album, because really it's the only song that was used in what could be considered an ironic way. I wonder how much Lynch digs the track or not? If he did use it fully for irony, that makes it itself ironic that the people who put the soundtrack together slotted it in there. Then again, he might just genuinely dig it. It's originally on Till the Night is Gone, a tribute compilation album dedicated to Doc Pomus, who Lynch is a professed fan of, and I'm willing to bet that contrary to Big Lebowski or its use in other films, that comp is where he heard it; that comp also has the only album appearance of Lou Reed's cover of This Magic Moment, which Lynch used in Lost Highway.


My bet is he legit likes the track. Although I was also surprised when he said he never really liked the song “Blue Velvet” when he heard it in the 1960s, even though it obviously had a huge influence on the film.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Sam Howzit » Mon May 25, 2020 3:55 pm

Mr. Reindeer

I haven’t got to writing the articles yet, but I believe that the Las Vegas driving footage and the Chantel/Hutch establishing shot of the Stratosphere were also captured by Jason S. and his crew. There are some aerial night time shots which I believe are stock (particularly for the intro to the news broadcast). Even though I’m stuck at home, I somehow need more hours In the day. Ha!
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon May 25, 2020 4:51 pm

Sam Howzit wrote:Mr. Reindeer

I haven’t got to writing the articles yet, but I believe that the Las Vegas driving footage and the Chantel/Hutch establishing shot of the Stratosphere were also captured by Jason S. and his crew. There are some aerial night time shots which I believe are stock (particularly for the intro to the news broadcast). Even though I’m stuck at home, I somehow need more hours In the day. Ha!


I know that feeling well! It’s frustrating...my commute as well as several hours of my work day are cut out, and I can’t go out anywhere with friends, yet it still feels like I don’t have the time to catch up on all the great movies and TV I’ve been missing and engage in other hobbies/home-bound interests. The days go by so quickly. But thank you for the info, that’s good to know, because I really do like that sequence. I guess it was mostly the drone/airplane stuff they used stock footage for, since Jason S. couldn’t feasibly do that.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:01 am

Sam Howzit wrote:Mr. Reindeer

I haven’t got to writing the articles yet, but I believe that the Las Vegas driving footage and the Chantel/Hutch establishing shot of the Stratosphere were also captured by Jason S. and his crew. There are some aerial night time shots which I believe are stock (particularly for the intro to the news broadcast). Even though I’m stuck at home, I somehow need more hours In the day. Ha!


I’m rewatching the Jason S. documentaries and it’s interesting that he does seem to have gotten a lot of drone/aerial shots, including some of Las Vegas. I wonder why Lynch didn’t have him get a few nighttime overhead shots, as opposed to using stock footage, which seems so un-Lynch-like.

EDIT: There’s also an aerial shot of NY in “Two Blue Balls”! So again, weird that Lynch used stock footage if Jason S. was grabbing this material. Are we 100% sure all the footage in the documentaries was shot by Jason S. and wasn’t also stock?
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:12 am

It goes by quickly, but the behind the scenes film for this Part has a great little moment where Lynch basically creates Candie’s personality on set. Shiels starts off doing her lines as a stereotypical ditzy Valley girl during rehearsal, and just through talking to her and having her do different things, Lynch seems to just instinctively “find” Candie. It’s a great little moment of pure instinctive creativity, captured in real time.

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