The Tremonds

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Mr. Reindeer
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The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:14 pm

DAVID BUSHMAN: “Did you ever have a strong sense of who the Tremonds and Chalfonts were?”
MARK FROST: “No. I have to say they seemed a little obscure to me.” (Page 138)

The Tremonds were first introduced in TSDoLP based on the outline/notes Frost gave Jennifer Lynch about second season plans. Jen Lynch on Mrs. Tremond in a 2006 DVD interview: “Mrs. Tremond is sort of the perfect example of someone who might be forgiving of someone like Laura, and Laura I think wanted to live as long as Mrs. Tremond.” In TSDoLP, Mrs. Tremond is only mentioned in passing as a stop on the Meals on Wheels route, and the grandson (named Pierre in the book) pops up once as Laura is leaving Harold’s. He pulls a coin from behind her ear and she pours her guts out to him about Bob.

The Tremonds make their first screen appearance in Episode 9. In Harley Peyton’s script, they seem to be distinctly mortal. Mrs. Tremond is an elderly bed-ridden invalid. Her grandson performs a magic card trick for her repeatedly, but when he serves her food, a card slips out of his sleeve, demonstrating that he doesn’t actually have supernatural powers. As in the final episode, Mrs. Tremond expresses a disdain for creamed corn, adding, “We detest yellow food.”

David Lynch seemingly added the supernatural element to the pair in the filmed version of Episode 9, and especially when he and Bob Engels brought them back in FWWM, where they finally emerge as full-fledged Lodge spirits (and their creamed corn fixation becomes central to the mythology).

So who are they? What is their allegiance? What is their motivation? These are tough questions to answer about any of the Lodge spirits (except maybe Bob), but the Tremonds are particularly slippery. In fact, as we shall see, we may not even know their real names, but I’m going to use “Tremond” for the sake of simplicity.

They seem to have some association with Bob. Leland mentions the suspiciously-named Chalberts living on one side of his family’s Pearl Lakes summer house when he was a kid, at the time when Bob (masquerading as Robertson) lived on the other side and first went inside Leland (impliedly raping, then inhabiting, him).

FWWM sees them consorting with the Black Lodge crew (Bob, MfAP, Woodsmen, Jumping Man, and an Electrician) at the convenience store. The only thing either of them says is the grandson pointing (at Bob?) and saying, “Fell a victim.” The grandson is seen putting on the Jumping Man’s mask, and when the mask is removed again he has become the capuchin monkey (who later on in the movie notably whispers, “Judy,” as MfAP is eating Laura’s garmonbozia).

The grandson is again linked to the Jumping Man (and Bob) when he pops up at Red Diamond City Motel, leaping around wearing the Jumping Man’s mask and carrying his stick while Leland runs away from his scheduled dalliance with Teresa, having unwittingly set up a foursome involving his own daughter. (I’m not sure of the shooting sequence, but the Jumping Man may actually have been born from the grandson creatively. On the Blu Ray, Mike Malone claims he found the Jumping Man’s stick on the ground when they were shooting this scene, indicating that this location scene preceded the studio scenes with the Jumping Man, who is not in the script.)

Although never seen, Carl claims that a family named Chalfont owned a trailer in Fat Trout in Deer Meadow which draws Chet’s attuned supernatural spidey-sense while investigating Teresa Banks’s murder. Chet finds a mound beneath the trailer much like the one Leland/Bob would later leave after Laura’s murder, with the Owl Cave ring on top. Production documents indicate that Leland actually murdered Teresa in the Chalfonts’ trailer, and freeze framing the movie appears to support this. We know the Black Lodge spirits seem to let Bob do their dirty work so they can feast on the spoils (garmonbozia), and a pattern is emerging of the Tremonds being chillingly complicit in his crimes.

Subsequently, Cooper shows up to Fat Trout to investigate Chet’s disappearance. He is also drawn to the same plot of land, but the trailer is now gone (their function having presumably been completed). Carl notes that, improbably, the plot was previously also inhabited by another set of Chalfonts, establishing their M.O. of parasitically taking over the living spaces and identities of families with distinctly French surnames!

We next see them approach Laura with a painting while she is preparing her Meals on Wheels run. It’s left somewhat ambiguous, but Laura doesn’t seem to recognize them. The grandson once again wears Jumping Man’s mask, and strangely seems to act counter to Bob’s interests, letting Laura know that “the man behind the mask” is looking for her diary (perhaps this is because Bob has gone rogue and the Tremonds, like Mike, are trying to reign him in).

The painting inspires Laura to dream that she enters it, beckoned on by the Tremonds. The wallpapered area she enters appears to be Black Lodge-adjacent (in TR, it is accessed from the convenience store, leads to the Dutchman’s—which notably looks just like Red Diamond City Motel—and is primarily associated with the Woodsmen). Indeed, in her dream, it leads her to the Red Room...but, again, the Tremonds’ motivation almost seems to be to help out our heroes. The painting gives Laura access to Cooper (even though he seemingly gives her bad advice, saying not to take the ring), and also leads to her writing the diary entry about the good Dale being trapped in the Lodge.

In Episode 9, the Tremonds, through means unknown, seem to take over the residence of the real Mrs. Tremond for some period. Donna delivers food through Meals on Wheels, and Mrs. Tremond is very disturbed to see creamed corn. Is this because she is reformed, as Phillip Gerard allegedly is, or is it simply that ordinary creamed corn disgusts her in comparison to real garmonbozia? It’s never quite clear if Laura was delivering Meals on Wheels to these two or to the real Mrs. Tremond, but it seems to me these two are only in that apartment for Donna’s sake. They point her to Harold, and Laura’s diary.

I have to say, although the two have disturbing ties to both Jumping Man and Bob, and their parasitic habit of taking over other people’s homes is alarming, they actually seem to have a largely benevolent track record. Most of their on-screen actions benefit the human characters. Perhaps they are sort of a balancing force? Mrs. Tremond does look kind of uncomfortable throughout the convenience store meeting in FWWM.

Finally, we come to Part 18. A completely different-looking, younger woman named Alice Tremond, along with her presumed husband, is living in the Palmer house in whatever reality Laura/Carrie Page has been taken to, seemingly (maybe?) controlled by Judy. She says the house was owned by a Mrs. Chalfont before them. Given how ambiguous this reality is, it’s really tough to know what to make of the Tremond presence here, other than it clearly echoing the recurring theme of them occupying other people’s houses. They may have been called on by Judy to take over Sarah’s house and prevent Dale from awakening Laura, but it’s also possible that Dale just miscalculated and ended up in a time/universe where Sarah doesn’t live in that house.

Given all of the above, I really can’t decide if they’re malevolent, benevolent, or somewhere in between. They’re certainly Black Lodge-adjacent, and one of the more fascinating aspects of the mythology IMO, because of how obscure they are (to use Mark’s word). I’m interested to hear others’ thoughts.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby dreamshake » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:16 pm

I am gonna share my thoughts after I finish the complete series rewatch I am about to start but right now I just want to share that my stomach dropped in part 18 with the chalfont/tremonds at the Palmers. I am not so sure they're benevolent or malevolent but right now think they, along with a lot of other supernaturla entities are like gods with motives we can't understand or prescribe human motives or values to.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Soolsma » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:16 am

I've thought of them as gatekeepers, messengers or carriers between the two (or more) worlds. Though they appear to be affiliated with the Black Lodge I've considered this to be due to the fact that we haven't seen a lot of White Lodge at all. Given the right circumstances; they might have had their dealings with e.g. the Fireman or Dido.
One thing that always struck me as important and telling, was that she was very adamant on not having requested any garmonbozia, perhaps even shocked by the notion of it. This points to a more neutral allegiance. The grandson studying magic made me think that he was a discoverer of sorts, an astronaut of the unknown, or, in the Fire walk with me poem; the magician who longs to see. Also, the fact they supplied Laura with the painting, and it took her to a space definitely closely related to the Black Lodge, it's ultimately what led her to come in possession of the ring, allowing her to escape BOB. This however, makes their nature and intent just as obscure as MIKE's.

On occasion, I've also thought of the grandson to be an opposing factor of the Jumping man. The two forming a sort of asymmetric symbiosis. Perhaps of good and evil, but probably of a more unfathomable, abstract nature.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:47 pm

From what I remember they were originally called Chalfonts and then renamed to Tremonds in FWWM, but I may be off there, although the order is Chalfonts and then Tremonds no matter what.

Thus, we may perhaps also approach this subject from the "nomen est omen" perspective, and we may need at least some working knowledge of French. Chalfont sounds close to "chaffaut", which stands for "scaffold" or "catafalque". It is also referred to as a "grenier à céréales." which fits the picture here: it is a cereal barn or silo, perhaps for corn or garmonbozia.

Tremond could be interpreted as "terre monde", and we then have "pierre terre monde", which is very telling if we consider that at one point Pierre dons the mask that looks like the rocky lunar surface. What else? Chester Desmond of course: "jester des mondes" or even "jester dix mondes", a fool archetype in one or across ten worlds.

The names may have been random, but this is one way of looking at them.
Last edited by boske on Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:52 pm

boske wrote:From what I remember they were originally called Chalfonts and then renamed to Tremonds in FWWM, but I may be off there, although the order is Chalfonts and then Tremonds no matter what..


Except that it was Tremonds first and then Chalfont.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:58 pm

eyeboogers wrote:
boske wrote:From what I remember they were originally called Chalfonts and then renamed to Tremonds in FWWM, but I may be off there, although the order is Chalfonts and then Tremonds no matter what..


Except that it was Tremonds first and then Chalfont.


My bad, all these years I thought it was the other way around, maybe it is the lodge doing it. :-)
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:04 pm

boske wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:
boske wrote:From what I remember they were originally called Chalfonts and then renamed to Tremonds in FWWM, but I may be off there, although the order is Chalfonts and then Tremonds no matter what..


Except that it was Tremonds first and then Chalfont.


My bad, all these years I thought it was the other way around, maybe it is the lodge doing it. :-)


Well, in production/release order, eyeboogers is correct. But chronologically, FWWM occurs first where they are Chalfont, then the series where they are Tremond.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:35 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Well, in production/release order, eyeboogers is correct. But chronologically, FWWM occurs first where they are Chalfont, then the series where they are Tremond.


And to be strict, in FWWM they are credited as "Chalfont/Tremond"
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:01 am

eyeboogers wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Well, in production/release order, eyeboogers is correct. But chronologically, FWWM occurs first where they are Chalfont, then the series where they are Tremond.


And to be strict, in FWWM they are credited as "Chalfont/Tremond"


Right, but in the world of the film, they were going by the name Chalfont when they rented the trailer at Fat Trout before we ever see them use the name Tremond. Not that I think it really matters, but insofar as it helps boske’s theory, we may as well be accurate.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Cappy » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:35 am

I don't know about what motivates or drives the Tremonds as individual characters, but in terms of their overall significance to Laura Palmer's arc, they seem to be arbiters of the realization of bad things.

Their interactions with her in FWWM precipitates her realization that her father is her abuser, and Alice Tremond's interaction with Carrie Page at the end of S3 seems to trigger some sort painful recollection from the hidden Laura.

Initially I viewed the final scene of Part 18 as Alice Tremond trying to hide Sarah/JUDY from Laura and Cooper, with Laura seeing through the ruse anyway. But thinking of the Tremonds as agents of realization and epiphany makes them more coherent entities, as opposed to them being conflicted agents of the Black Lodge who sometimes help the heroes and sometimes don't.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:35 am

Cappy wrote:I don't know about what motivates or drives the Tremonds as individual characters, but in terms of their overall significance to Laura Palmer's arc, they seem to be arbiters of the realization of bad things.

Their interactions with her in FWWM precipitates her realization that her father is her abuser, and Alice Tremond's interaction with Carrie Page at the end of S3 seems to trigger some sort painful recollection from the hidden Laura.

Initially I viewed the final scene of Part 18 as Alice Tremond trying to hide Sarah/JUDY from Laura and Cooper, with Laura seeing through the ruse anyway. But thinking of the Tremonds as agents of realization and epiphany makes them more coherent entities, as opposed to them being conflicted agents of the Black Lodge who sometimes help the heroes and sometimes don't.


I like this.

I wonder if there was any thought behind the name Alice being used. Perhaps a Lewis Carroll reference (another work about transitioning between worlds)?
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:38 pm

FWWM's "above the convenience store" apparently depicts some processes that these entities are part of, and based on it, it would seem that Tremonds are sinister, at least from our human point of view. We have Pierre the child who puts on the lunar mask, which would make him, in simple terms, a "moon child", whatever that may mean in that context. But it is this child that sets events in motion, by issuing that "fell a victim" command, likely for the purpose of collecting garmonbozia for his needs.

I do not think we have enough information to speculate on the Jumping Man. S3 does hint a bit on that overall scene. We do see the woodsmen again (albeit with a darker appearance), but only with Mr.C., as Cooper does not encounter them, which would therefore place all these entities on a lower plane from Cooper's, and definitely on the maleficent side, Tremonds included. But what about the cone-like feature on the Jumping Man and Tremond's mask? It does resemble those vortices in S3, doesn't it?

I also think Alice is a reference to Lewis Carrol, as was the case with Kubrick and EWS.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby Jasper » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:13 am

Not that this is especially new, but it might help to look once more at the cut dialogue from the above-the-convenience-store scene in FWWM. We don't know why some of it was cut. Maybe Lynch didn't like some of it, or maybe Frances Bay had trouble speaking backwards. Who knows? It does seem to be in part about these ethereal entities invading the earthly realm, and Mrs. Tremond's dialogue could certainly be seen as reinforcing this impression, perhaps even to the point of ultimately being deemed too on-the-nose.

https://dugpa.com/features/twin-peaks-f ... en-part-2/

Six people in a large, barren, filthy room. Cheap plastic storm windows flap in the cold wind. In the foreground the Man from Another Place (Mike) and BOB sit at a formica table. Behind them on plastic torn chairs huddle Mrs. Tremond and her grandson. Two big woodsmen with full beards sit quietly.

FIRST WOODSMAN (subtitled):

We have descended from pure air.

MAN FROM ANOTHER PLACE (subtitled):

Going up and down. Intercourse between the two worlds.

BOB (subtitled):

Light of new discoveries.

MRS. TREMOND (subtitled):

Why not be composed of materials and combinations of atoms?

MRS. TREMOND’S GRANDSON (subtitled):

This is no accident.

MAN FROM ANOTHER PLACE (subtitled):

This is a formica table. Green is its color.

He touches the table.

FIRST WOODSMAN (subtitled):

Our world.

MAN FROM ANOTHER PLACE (subtitled):

With chrome. And everything will proceed cyclically.

SECOND WOODSMAN (subtitled):

Boneless.

MIKE [sic] (subtitled):

Yes, find the middle place.

Bob begins to scream with anger.

BOB (subtitled):

I HAVE THE FURY OF MY OWN MOMENTUM.

TREMOND’S GRANDSON [sic] (subtitled):

Fell a victim.

The Man From Another Place raises his hand.

MAN FROM ANOTHER PLACE (subtitled):

Fire Walk With Me.

Bob claps his hand and a circle of fire appears in the room.

BOB (subtitled):

Fire Walk With Me.

THROUGH THE CIRCLE

We see the RED ROOM.

Bob crawls into the Red Room and Mike [sic] starts to yell and leaps in after him.

SECOND WOODSMAN (subtitled):

Thus time moves on.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby boske » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:36 am

That's interesting: the script is mentioning six people, and yet there are seven in the film, so either the script further evolved, or the jumping man is somehow representing Jeffries himself ("I've been to one of their meetings"). Also, Jeffies was associated with numbers 6 and 7 in FWWM, first as the electrical pole sported number 6 and he showed up on the 7th floor of the Philadelphia office. And then he gets stuck between floors, probably 6th and 7th, or maybe 7th and 8th. And in season 3, he is definitely at number 8.

Has it ever been raised who Tremond's parents were? That said, for some reason while watching S3, I was wondering if Red was actually the Tremond child 25 years later, but decided (knowing what we know about Tremonds), that it was perhaps Little Nicky, if Red were to be an existing character. And the age seems about right, Getty is 5-6 years Amick's junior, just like they were in S2.
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Re: The Tremonds

Postby moonmadness76 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:34 am

I always thought it was strange that people with the surname Tremonds showed up at the Palmer house in part 18. It always struck me as the the grandmother and grandson didn't actually have/use names of their own, that they just assumed the name of whoever's house they have taken over. Which is why there is a Mrs Tremond who has no knowledge of the grandmother and son, and why Carl Rodd says to Dale Cooper that there were "two Chalfonts" renting the same trailer. Unfortunately this wouldn't have been possible with the passing of Frances Bay, but wouldn't it have made more sense/been more in line with the history of these characters if the grandmother and grandson opened the door to Cooper and Carrie Page in part 18 and stated that they were the Palmers? As far as I know Tremond was a just a random lady on the Meals on wheels route, that those two lodge characters assumed the name of. I still haven't quite come up with a good interpretation as to why there is a previously unseen character in the Palmer house who identifies themsevles as a Tremond, except the vague lodge connection.

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