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Discussion of INLAND EMPIRE

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applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:34 am

MichaelPW wrote:Oh, the great "three-o-clock"-scene. Ok, now I know who Gordy is. I didn`t know that he and the person in the shed are the same person. First one is one of the strangest ones. Are you sure that it is in California? Couldn`t it be in Poland? Maybe the word I'm seeking is somehow like "subconsciousness"-scene. Somehow this whole scene is like "viewing it from a perspective of a baby". We have toys in the background. We have spilling. We have "Come here...and get some hotdogs" - isn`t an adult speech, is it? We have a problem with going to the toilet. There`s an infantile quarrel about the hammer (not screwdriver). One brought along his toy: the rope. There`s this strangely artificially beginning of the two female ones for getting food. And we have three-o-clock (when we regard midnight as end of life - three-o-clock is relatively early in the life span). Also the boss brought along his toy: his cap. Maybe he is just playing boss. On the other side we have very serious "adult" themes. Like that there`s something not ok with three-o-clock. The rope could be regarded as intestines out of the body. The hammer could be used as a murder-weapon. But maybe we are at the beginning of life. "An adult mean" is maybe a screwdriver or a gun. The cap could represent dictatorship. And the music is just like "here we are in subconsiousness-areas".

Well, I never noticed all that but what you say is a true description. I'll have to think about that childhood aspect and see if anything else comes to mind.

Yes, I think it is in California, but it is a bizarre, exaggerated version of Americans in California dreamed by Lost Girl, which is why she shows up in the middle of everything as Queen Kelly talking about her dream. I don't watch television at all but whenever I see it in someone else's house, it looks like that to me. The stupidity, the hot dogs, etc. So I am guessing that American television would look that way to someone from Europe.

(I know, on line, a Lynch fan from Romania, so I should ask her about this. It seemed like she gave up talking about IE a long time ago though, so I don't know if she will answer.)

I have been thinking that the point of the scene is that it is Lost Girl's first attempt to make things happen the way she wants so in her dream she is taking Piotrek away from Sue and bringing him to eastern Europe where he will be closer. But the child theme is something to think about, especially given that there is a child who died in the story.
In the monologue he is just "They had this guy working there ... Marine from North Carolina", etc. So I still don't see where the speculation comes from about anyone really working for the phantom. I don't see the advantage of assuming that.

I know that the monologue is in this way. Working here I think is meant as how the formal relationships are. But one aspect of working is following. And the people in the circus seem to follow the phantom.

I feel like I'm on a slippery slope here, wait a minute. First, the customers followed the phantom, not necessarily the co-workers. But even if they did, say maybe he got them to go to the bar. That too is a long way from saying that her husband "works for" him.
Maybe only Gordy is left.

I don't think that is in the movie.
Maybe all other ones followed the phantom. btw - Guess that we assume that the phantom is meant with "he". I don`t know how it is with others, but my speculation comes from - as I tried to explain - Lost Girl. She says: "I have to tell you all there is someone." And it seems that it is a problem that there is someone. So who is that someone causing problems? One maybe could argue that she means "Piotrek" and that the problem is that she doesn`t know him. But I don`t believe in this so far. The advantage maybe is: If "Piotrek" follows a phantom he won`t be paid and if he won`t be paid he can`t pay the costs of a family. "I can`t father children" maybe is not meant in the infertility-sense, but in the supporting-sense.

Well, it just doesn't follow other things in the story for me. In the beginning, the phantom is like a disease trying to enter the Inland Empire and Janek is like the immune system trying to keep him out, and then, when he gets in anyway, trying to get rid of him.

I'll pay more attention to the subtitles when she speaks and compare the English, but the basic sense that I get is that she wound up in trouble and called for help, and these psychic men heard her and held a séance. In the séance she asked for Piotrek. So Janek brought him there. Logically, the scene with the shed should be next but it was before this scene. I don't know why "” maybe Janek came into the movie and found Piotrek and made a first attempt by going to his boss in the circus (in the shed) who didn't know any more than anyone else about how the phantom got in and out of the movie or where he was. But when he says that he said something about "Inland Empire", that means that part of southern California. So all those things seem to fit with Gordy being the one Piotrek works for and Merek Zydowics being the one Peter Lucas works for and so that's how Piotrek gets to the Sue and Billy story to plant the gun in Sue's drawer so that Nikki could portray Sue finding it and killing the phantom.
So maybe Devon is the little boy and Nikki is the little girl. But who knows the way to the palace? "Blue" rabbit (4.00; K)? Janek (7.00)?

I can't follow these running times; I think my player is old and has different numbers.
From the beginning of when the visitor showed her the scene of getting the part, we seem to be watching a very dreamlike story that is told to her by Visitor #1.

The thing that has always truck me as odd is how the Visitor says: "When he opened his door ..." Why "his door"? Normally we would say "the door".
It`s interesting that Nikki says that there is no murder in the movie. When we think about the death scene and the words from Kingsley to Nikki ("Nikki, you were wonderful") I think we can assume that there is a murder in the movie. But the talk from Nikki to Visitor 1 seems to be superficial ("I think I know where you live"). Visitor 1 ignores that she should go - she crosses a border. It`s interesting how she looks to the other side when the butler offers milk and sugar as if she would be disgusted and then says something like: "Yes, the coffee is very good."

The visitor doesn't seem to think she needs to pay much attention to wht she thinks. She seems confident and not worried by any of that.

But when the visitor tells her that tomorrow she would be over there, and then she turns very slowly, as if hypnotized or in a dream, then we see a different image of her getting the part. From that point on we are seeing the story the visitor is suggesting "if today were tomorrow". So the story the Dern character (not named yet) read in the script may not be the same as the one we see in the version of it that the visitor tells her. It is only in this story that she is called Nikki.

Another odd thing she says, and this is another odd thing particular to the English, is "Which house are you living in?" We would expect her to say, "Which house do you live in?", which would mean, "Which house is yours? Where do you live?" etc. But "Which house are you living in?" implies something temporary. She says "I've been going around meeting our new neighbors." It's as if these dwelling places are in an after life world where people who are no longer living are temporarily housed until they can incarnate again.
Janek seems as knowing what he does. He seems that he knowed it before that there is no phantom anymore. But "Piotrek" seems to much involved. The offered solution isn`t enough for him.

From the scene in the woods, I'd say that he knows the Phantom has something to do with the Inland Empire. But Lost Girl still needs help. In the end, she winds up in Southern California's Inland Empire with her husband, but it seems that the phantom wanted to follow there and mess things up for her there too, in the remake of the movie. Then the whole sequence with the gun etc.

But another thing I keep wondering is how did Piotrek and Janek join up?

I think what I said above was more clear this time.


To me it seems that we have two helpers in IE. One introduced at 4.00 (with applause) and one introduced at 7.00 (with slow appearing). "Blue" rabbit helps Nikki. And Janek helps "Piotrek". But - maybe - "blue" rabbit is also Janek. And - maybe - the secret of the "blue" rabbit is the way to the palace.

I'll see if I can find these numbers. They would have to be significant.

I don't think Janek is the rabbit because we see who that rabbit is; he is the man on our left with the gun.

In the first line I think we have the following solution at the séance: the understanding of "Piotrek" of whom he followed. I think that is the solution Janek intended with bringing "Piotrek" to the séance. One "rabbit" seems to think "The right solution in this case would be to kill the phantom". Janek seems that he thinks that this wouldn`t be a good solution.

The gun seems not to be an appropriate solution. It seems that "Piotrek" doesn`t use it, but lays it down into the drawer. He doesn`t do what one of the "rabbits" assume a good solution.

It seems to me that they all agreed and that was the plan and he followed the plan. He takes the gun out of the Polish story (because the phantom has escaped into the California one) and puts it where the protagonist of the California story (Sue) can use it.

It seems that the screwdriver is the right solution.

Isn't that part of the same plan? When Sue is killed, the phantom thinks he is free and clear and is looking for room 4 7. But Nikki resurrects Sue so she can kill him. She sees a part of the movie we didn't know about, the gun in the drawer. The phantom did not expect the gun to be there.

I don`t think that Janek tries to keep out the phantom out of the story. It seems that Janek has the might to decide, whethter the phantom gets access or not.

Aren't those the same thing? I don't see the difference. We know that the phantom did get into the story because there he is.
I think 4.00 and 7.00 are intended. We have so much to do with 4 and 7s in IE that David Lynch maybe has thought during he arranged the scenes "Something special has to occur at these times.".

Yes, you must be right there. I'll look.
Well, dogs like to move... :)

A new expression I had not heard! Another one I found interesting: I am working with a woman in Germany on a book and we were talking about someone we hope will publish it but whom we have not yet contacted. We know that he made a mistake in another book, so she said, "I won't tell him until he is in our boat." :)
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:53 am

In TP I think we have a "subconsciousness-scene" at the end of episode eight in which the Palmers are visiting the Donna-familiy. btw - who exactly is Kevin Young jr.?

Maybe "red" (cetchup, red telephone) and/or praying are keys for getting contact with the "rabbit-office". But one has to have a serious reason to call there. Otherwise there will be laughter.

applesnoranges wrote:I have been thinking that the point of the scene is that it is Lost Girl's first attempt to make things happen the way she wants so in her dream she is taking Piotrek away from Sue and bringing him to eastern Europe where he will be closer.


Yes, maybe you are right. I don`t know if Lost Girl has the power to do so. But this would be an explanation. On the other hand maybe Nikki sees herself when looking to "Queen Kelly". Her son died and her husband isn`t really there for her. He makes hot dogs and other people know with what he has a way.

That too is a long way from saying that her husband "works for" him.


We know what Lost Girl says: "I have to tell you all that there is someone." One of the rabbits ask: "Do you work for someone?" He says "Yes" and the rabbit says: "This is the one she talked about." Why would Lost Girl see Gordy? (btw - why does "Piotrek" say "Uri" at the shed?) What does "working for the phantom" mean? I guess it means something like "not working", "not beeing there for wife", "not beeing there for family".

I don't think that is in the movie.


In the woods we only see Gordy I think. I think we assume that "Piotrek" searches the phantom in the woods. They find only Gordy at this circus-place. Where is everyone gone?

So all those things seem to fit with Gordy being the one Piotrek works for and Merek Zydowics being the one Peter Lucas works for and so that's how Piotrek gets to the Sue and Billy story to plant the gun in Sue's drawer so that Nikki could portray Sue finding it and killing the phantom.


Think that the phantom cannot be killed. What effect has shooting on him? "Nikki" sees a projection of herself meaning - perhaps - "it is already done".

I can't follow these running times; I think my player is old and has different numbers.


It would interest me, if you see the "blue" rabbit at 4 and Janek at 7, when you use another clock.

Why "his door"?


Maybe we shall know that he comes from his house.

It is only in this story that she is called Nikki.


Yes, you are right. Maybe she is Norma Desmond before.

But "Which house are you living in?" implies something temporary.


Is it possible that people say "Which house are you living in" when they live there since short?

She says "I've been going around meeting our new neighbors."


That`s interesting. I didn`t noticed that before and only have German subtitles (not English ones).

I don't think Janek is the rabbit because we see who that rabbit is; he is the man on our left with the gun.


The "blue" rabbit could be different persons. So we know that the "blue" rabbit is also Mr. K. And isn`t he also the one on the right without gun? We see "blue" rabbit "crossing the access" at the beginning. Then we see the "Janek-phantom"-scene". Then again we see the "blue" rabbit. This could mean different things like: "blue" rabbit is Janek; "blue" rabbit knows the access; "blue" rabbit knows the access and this is his secret; "blue" rabbit knows what the phantom would like to know; "blue" rabbit knows what the phantom would like to know and this is his secret; ...

It seems to me that they all agreed and that was the plan and he followed the plan. He takes the gun out of the Polish story (because the phantom has escaped into the California one) and puts it where the protagonist of the California story (Sue) can use it.


One of the rabbits lays the gun on the table. Janek says "We go". But "Piotrek" hesitates and then takes the gun. So it seems to me that Janek isn`t convinced about the gun-solution.

Isn't that part of the same plan? When Sue is killed, the phantom thinks he is free and clear and is looking for room 4 7. But Nikki resurrects Sue so she can kill him. She sees a part of the movie we didn't know about, the gun in the drawer. The phantom did not expect the gun to be there.


Obviously the right mean is in the near of the phantom. So we know where the right mean comes from. There is this bulb in the mouth of the phantom. What is this bulb? I assume now that it is imbalance. Love from Nikki to Devon, but no love from Devon to Nikki. With the right mean there "will be" a "flushing" and the bulb "won`t be" there anymore. Obviously the "Axxon N."-door can be opened after midnight by "Nikki". But the other "unlocked" door seems to play a role as well. Yes, maybe the phantom wants to cross the 4 7 - door. "Nikki" with going backward and still thinking about negative discoveries seems that she didn`t expected to find room 4 7 there.

Aren't those the same thing? I don't see the difference. We know that the phantom did get into the story because there he is.


If he tries he could fail, if he decides it is his decision. The phantom "says" that it is good that Janek understands that the phantom wants access. But it`s unclear what Janek will do with this understanding. It seems that there could be the possibility that Janek decides to let him have access.

I am working with a woman in Germany on a book and we were talking about someone we hope will publish it but whom we have not yet contacted.


That`s interesting! Will you give me the title of this book?
applesnoranges
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Location: California

Postby applesnoranges » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:26 pm

I'll have to finish watching again this time before answering this.

We don't have a title; we are just researching the art history of an unknown German photographer. We are the only ones who know anything about him so we have agreed not to discuss what we know for now. Yes, interesting, but neither of us has ever written or published a book so it's all something to learn.
MichaelPW
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Location: Germany

Postby MichaelPW » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:20 am

applesnoranges wrote:Yes, interesting, but neither of us has ever written or published a book so it's all something to learn.


Me neither - wish you all the best!
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:23 pm

MichaelPW wrote:In TP I think we have a "subconsciousness-scene" at the end of episode eight in which the Palmers are visiting the Donna-familiy. btw - who exactly is Kevin Young jr.?

I have never heard of Keven Young Jr. I can't think of any new male characters in that scene.
applesnoranges wrote:I have been thinking that the point of the scene is that it is Lost Girl's first attempt to make things happen the way she wants so in her dream she is taking Piotrek away from Sue and bringing him to eastern Europe where he will be closer.

Yes, maybe you are right. I don`t know if Lost Girl has the power to do so. But this would be an explanation. On the other hand maybe Nikki sees herself when looking to "Queen Kelly". Her son died and her husband isn`t really there for her. He makes hot dogs and other people know with what he has a way.

I can't make any more conclusions other than that it might be how she imagines a California barbecue, Sue's husband looks very attractive and is going to eastern Europe, and there is Queen Kelly. I don't know much about that movie but from what I've read, there seem to be some connections to IE. It might be a good idea to get it and see.

We know what Lost Girl says: "I have to tell you all that there is someone." One of the rabbits ask: "Do you work for someone?" He says "Yes" and the rabbit says: "This is the one she talked about." Why would Lost Girl see Gordy? (btw - why does "Piotrek" say "Uri" at the shed?) What does "working for the phantom" mean? I guess it means something like "not working", "not beeing there for wife", "not beeing there for family".

I think he says, "Gordy!"

Here is what I see with English subtitles:

LG: "There's someone there ... I have to tell you ... there's someone...."

(Then Janek literally drags Piotrek in backwards. Piotrek then, seems to e the "someone" she is talking about. She knows he is there.)

Man: "Do you recognize her?"

Piotrek: "I don't see her." (I think: This is all new to him; he is an ordinary person.)

Man: "You understand she sent for you?"

LG: "I don't know where I am!"

Piotrek: "I hear her now." (Reminds me of Ruth hearing Rita but not seeing her.)

Man: "Do you see her?"

Piotrek: "No."

Man: "It was ... red. You work for someone?"

Piotrek: "Yes."

Man: "This is the one she spoke of."

Piotrek: "The one I work for."

Man: "So you understand! The horse was taken ... to the well." (lays the gun on the table. "Take the pistol."

Janek: "Let's go."

Voce from side: "Right away! It's after midnight!"

OK, what was red? Gordy's cup! What I think is being pointed to here, again, is that the movie is an object. Mr. Rabbit refers to "red" and the one he works for because he is talking about the one Peter Lucas works for! Nothing else happens to the pistol in Poland; it is found by Sue in California. That's how the movie works, it's how Lynch and Zydowics solved it.
In the woods we only see Gordy I think. I think we assume that "Piotrek" searches the phantom in the woods. They find only Gordy at this circus-place. Where is everyone gone?

I don't know about the "Everyone?", but it repeats what Nikki said at the dinner party when she walked in. ???
Think that the phantom cannot be killed. What effect has shooting on him? "Nikki" sees a projection of herself meaning - perhaps - "it is already done".

Yes, the phantom just seems to be an idea. He gets into the movie through fear and anger of the characters and Janek enters the movie and maneuvers the characters into position to throw him out. That horrible Dern face was what we saw right after Gordy said he mumbled something about "Inland Empire". He is like an infection that infected the Dern character. He seems happy when he is shot because the shooting doesn't kill him, it just makes him not evil. In one of the videos David Lynch was asked about evil in his movies and he said that talking about evil is like talking about darkness: there is no such thing, they are the absence of something.
It would interest me, if you see the "blue" rabbit at 4 and Janek at 7, when you use another clock.

I tried this again. Do you mean 4 and 7 minutes? I could try that.
Why "his door"?

Maybe we shall know that he comes from his house.

It still sounds strange and to have a special meaning. This probably means nothing but what came to mind, just because I happened to have just read it, is that there is a boy and a girl in "His Dark Materials" and the boy can open doors (into other universes) that nobody else can, so they are definitely his doors. Unknown to him though, is that when he does, something evil enters. Probably nothing to do with IE, but I just thought of it.
Yes, you are right. Maybe she is Norma Desmond before.

Another way of looking at it would be that the whole thing is Norma Desmond's dream.
Is it possible that people say "Which house are you living in" when they live there since short?

No, it is just a strange thing to say. If people met at a hotel they might say, "Which room are you staying in?" But it would not be said about a house. That is what makes the scene seem unreal.

I didn`t noticed that before and only have German subtitles (not English ones).

Mine comes with the possibility of French subtitles so sometimes if I can't hear something, I can turn on the French and piece it together. I only know a tiny bit of French and German and Spanish though.

The "blue" rabbit could be different persons. So we know that the "blue" rabbit is also Mr. K. And isn`t he also the one on the right without gun?

No, people have analyzed this and I'm convinced that it is clear: That rabbit sits in Dern's chair, not Mr. K.'s. Therefore, I conclude, that part of the Dern monolog at least, comes from him as Lost Girl's representative.
We see "blue" rabbit "crossing the access" at the beginning. Then we see the "Janek-phantom"-scene". Then again we see the "blue" rabbit. This could mean different things like: "blue" rabbit is Janek; "blue" rabbit knows the access; "blue" rabbit knows the access and this is his secret; "blue" rabbit knows what the phantom would like to know; "blue" rabbit knows what the phantom would like to know and this is his secret; ...

Yes, that is all I see. I don't see what happens to the rabbit. It could be anything. He could be Visitor #1 but there is nothing clear to indicate that. btw someone pointed out something about the tree first seen dark and then in daylight: That scene is just like in Blue Velvet before Jeffery comes to Sandy's house. In both cases, someone is going to see Laura Dern for the first time.

One of the rabbits lays the gun on the table. Janek says "We go". But "Piotrek" hesitates and then takes the gun. So it seems to me that Janek isn`t convinced about the gun-solution.

I don't know about that. Piotrek is hesitant about the whole thing but when the rabbit man says to take the pistol, Janek seems to me to accept it and just says, "Let's go!"

Obviously the right mean is in the near of the phantom.

I think you have the wrong English word so I don't follow what you are saying. "Mean" is not a noun. Maybe "meaning" or "means" would mean what you are expressing?
So we know where the right mean comes from. There is this bulb in the mouth of the phantom. What is this bulb? I assume now that it is imbalance. Love from Nikki to Devon, but no love from Devon to Nikki. With the right mean there "will be" a "flushing" and the bulb "won`t be" there anymore. Obviously the "Axxon N."-door can be opened after midnight by "Nikki". But the other "unlocked" door seems to play a role as well. Yes, maybe the phantom wants to cross the 4 7 - door. "Nikki" with going backward and still thinking about negative discoveries seems that she didn`t expected to find room 4 7 there.

I don't understand much of this part of the movie anyway, but again, I don't think there are symbols with innate meanings in Lynch films. For example, I think the light bulb was only there to scare Sue. It may be the first thing that was "red" and the others followed because the story is that Lynch showed Majchrzak three things and told him to choose one and improvise something with it. He filmed that and then went from there.
Aren't those the same thing? I don't see the difference. We know that the phantom did get into the story because there he is.

If he tries he could fail, if he decides it is his decision. The phantom "says" that it is good that Janek understands that the phantom wants access. But it`s unclear what Janek will do with this understanding. It seems that there could be the possibility that Janek decides to let him have access.

I guess so"”it must have been left unclear deliberately"”but where would that take the story? It doesn't seem to mean anything to me.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:58 pm

applesnoranges wrote:I have never heard of Keven Young Jr. I can't think of any new male characters in that scene.


He isn`t in the scene, but named after the episode ended.

I don't know much about that movie but from what I've read, there seem to be some connections to IE. It might be a good idea to get it and see.


Have ordered the existing fragments now. I`m eager to see, whether there will be parallels to IE.

I think he says, "Gordy!"


The subtitles inform that he says "Uri.".

Piotrek: "I don't see her."


Is it really "her"? German subtitles translated into English say "I don`t see a woman." "Her" would be more "personal" like "I know about whom something is going on here." "Woman" would be like "I see that I should see a woman here."

Man: "You understand she sent for you?"


German subtitles translated into English say something different here, as well: "You know, she wanted to see you." First one is expecting an answer; second one is informing.

LG: "I don't know where I am!"


No exclamation mark in German subtitles.

Piotrek: "I hear her now."


No "now" in German subtitles.

Man: "Do you see her?"


It is Janek who says this, isn`t he?

Man: "It was ... red. You work for someone?"


"It was ... red" comes from the man on the left, while "You work for someone?" comes from the man on the right. Or?

Man: "So you understand! The horse was taken ... to the well." (lays the gun on the table. "Take the pistol."


German subtitles translated into English:
Man: "Now you understand."
Man with beard: "The horse was taken ... to the well."
(Man lays the gun on the table and says "Take the pistol.")

Janek: "Let's go."


German subtitles translated into English: "We go."

Voce from side: "Right away! It's after midnight!"


German subtitles translated into English: "Right away! It`s already after midnight!"

btw - In the scene in which Janek says that he completely understands that the phantom searches an access: Which word do the English subtitles use? Do they use the word "access"? I`m thinking about the similarity between the word "access" and "Axxon N.". Maybe "Axxon N." could mean something like "access to Nikki".

So we have "There`s someone ... I have to tell you all ... there`s someone ..." and "I don`t know where I am" by LG. To me it seems that "This is the one she spoke of." refers more to the first one. Why would she spoke of Gordy?

OK, what was red?


There are different things which were red. We do not hear it the first time here (that it was red). For example, there is (the?) red lamp in the "rabbit office".

I don't know about the "Everyone?", but it repeats what Nikki said at the dinner party when she walked in. ???


Piotrek asks Gordy (Uri ?): "All?" Everything seems closed and left there. Yes, we could say here: "Where is everyone gone?" :)

In one of the videos David Lynch was asked about evil in his movies and he said that talking about evil is like talking about darkness: there is no such thing, they are the absence of something.


Think that it is a difficult unanswered philosophical question whether there is evil. Catholic church says that there is evil - the jews say that there is no evil.

Do you mean 4 and 7 minutes?


Yes, right after pressing the "enter button" the time is running. And exactly on 4.00 we have "blue" rabbit entering the door/the movie with applause. And on approximate 7.02 we have Janek. At least I believe in 4.00 - be it intended or not. :)

Unknown to him though, is that when he does, something evil enters.


Does this something evil manifest in something?

Another way of looking at it would be that the whole thing is Norma Desmond's dream.


Yes, already had this idea, too!

No, people have analyzed this and I'm convinced that it is clear: That rabbit sits in Dern's chair, not Mr. K.'s. Therefore, I conclude, that part of the Dern monolog at least, comes from him as Lost Girl's representative.


In the past this chair-argument didn`t convince me much, because the facts that the "blue" rabbit has a male voice throughout the whole movie and that there is already someone in the room, when "Dern" comes into the room upstairs could be clear hints that the "blue" rabbit is Mr. K. But more and more I like the idea that he isn`t Mr. K. This makes it all different. In the "blue" rabbit = Mr. K - variance the last factor behind the Dern character could be someone with something like a "multiple-personality-disorder". But in the "blue" rabbit = Dern character variance the last factor behind what we see from the Dern character could be the rabbit (displaying somewhat for Mr. K which will lead maybe to certain decisions by Mr. K). Maybe we have then an inate meaning of rabbit here like "causing pity" (Mr. K could "think" "What a nice sweet rabbit" and/or "I can only have love for it" (while normally I wouldn`t have "love" for Lost Girl). Mr. K could have his orders like "Horses to the well" (=animals to the well (="heaven","paradise")), "Humans to the well when behaviour was right during life". And the "rabbit" talks about humans. And how this could be (to be in the wrong waiting room?). And Mr. K doesn`t ask the rabbit much.

I am still wondering whether there is a connection between Mr. K and the "microphone" Freddy gets after the death-scene.

btw someone pointed out something about the tree first seen dark and then in daylight: That scene is just like in Blue Velvet before Jeffery comes to Sandy's house. In both cases, someone is going to see Laura Dern for the first time.


That`s interesting! I think that I only saw Blue Velvet one time and this was years ago. Plan to change that. I remember "Dennis Hopper" wanting to make tour.

Piotrek is hesitant about the whole thing but when the rabbit man says to take the pistol, Janek seems to me to accept it and just says, "Let's go!"


No, to me Janek does not seem to accept it. His "We go" is like "We have seen enough here. You shouldn`t take the gun. That would be a wrong way." I think.

"Mean" is not a noun. Maybe "meaning" or "means" would mean what you are expressing?


Yes, sorry for the wrong word and thanks for pointing to this mistake. I meant "means".

I guess so"”it must have been left unclear deliberately"”but where would that take the story? It doesn't seem to mean anything to me.


The phantom seems to think that the only way to access would be the corresponding decision by Janek. It seems to try all to make clear that Janek has its wish into mind.
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:03 am

MichaelPW wrote:
applesnoranges wrote:I think he says, "Gordy!"

The subtitles inform that he says "Uri.".

I'll check it out with French subtitles next time. But Marek Zydowicz is credited as Gordy and if you do an image search on him, that's the same guy. I think the "Uri", must be a mistake. But I'll check.
Piotrek: "I don't see her."

Is it really "her"? German subtitles translated into English say "I don`t see a woman." "Her" would be more "personal" like "I know about whom something is going on here." "Woman" would be like "I see that I should see a woman here."

Now I don't think we can make much out of these differences in subtitles. Someone translated the Polish into German and someone else into English. Unless we know Polish we can't be sure what was said. So I think it is just the general idea that counts.
LG: "I don't know where I am!"

No exclamation mark in German subtitles.

I wrote it down while watching so some of my details may be wrong.
Man: "Do you see her?"

It is Janek who says this, isn`t he?

I'll check again. From my point of view it doesn't matter much because I think they are all in agreement. Janek brought him there because she sent for him.
"It was ... red" comes from the man on the left, while "You work for someone?" comes from the man on the right. Or?

Could be. I'll see. I don't know if it matters.
Janek: "Let's go."

German subtitles translated into English: "We go."

Again, I think just a different translation.
German subtitles translated into English: "Right away! It`s already after midnight!"

I think it comes to the same thing. I think when the gun is on the table, then the plan has been made. What follows is that Piotrek takes the gun from the Polish story and puts it into the American one. It worked: it removed the phantom, which is what Janek wanted. So I don't think there is any way to see Janek in disagreement. I can't see why you think so or what story you are seeing. To me, that is how the story seems to go.
btw - In the scene in which Janek says that he completely understands that the phantom searches an access: Which word do the English subtitles use? Do they use the word "access"? I`m thinking about the similarity between the word "access" and "Axxon N.". Maybe "Axxon N." could mean something like "access to Nikki".

The word is translated into English as "opening" both times. It seems mysterious because it doesn't mean anything normal. An "opening" could be a job; someone might ask in a letter to a company if they have any openings for some kind of professional position. This has led some people to think that Janek is the director of 4 7 and the phantom is asking him for a part in the movie. He definitely wants to get into room 4 7 though. It seems like Lost Girl slipped away from him somehow and he wants control of her again.
So we have "There`s someone ... I have to tell you all ... there`s someone ..." and "I don`t know where I am" by LG. To me it seems that "This is the one she spoke of." refers more to the first one. Why would she spoke of Gordy?

The first thing that comes to mind is that she is speaking of Piotrek because he is the one she is calling for. But if she is speaking of Gordy, then she is really speaking of Marek because he is Peter Lucas' boss. He, like David Lynch, could tell him what scene to act in next, to take the gun into the American story. Why no one sees how amazingly brilliant this is puzzles me. To me it's the most wonderful thing about the movie.
There are different things which were red. We do not hear it the first time here (that it was red). For example, there is (the?) red lamp in the "rabbit office".

Yes, there are about five red lamps. I think the difference represents who is remembering them.
I don't know about the "Everyone?", but it repeats what Nikki said at the dinner party when she walked in. ???

Piotrek asks Gordy (Uri ?): "All?" Everything seems closed and left there. Yes, we could say here: "Where is everyone gone?" :)

That's true, so what would it mean? Nikki is the one who knows about it because she said it. The scene in the woods is definitely dreamlike (the way the coffee cup falls without spilling, the fact that he threw it at all, all dreamlike. So would this be something Nikki is dreaming? Something she is thinking about contrary to what Visitor #1 told her?
In one of the videos David Lynch was asked about evil in his movies and he said that talking about evil is like talking about darkness: there is no such thing, they are the absence of something.


Think that it is a difficult unanswered philosophical question whether there is evil. Catholic church says that there is evil - the jews say that there is no evil.

Well certainly each person will have their own view, but this is David Lynch's movie and the shooting of the phantom scene seems to reflect what he thinks.

Do you mean 4 and 7 minutes?

Yes, right after pressing the "enter button" the time is running. And exactly on 4.00 we have "blue" rabbit entering the door/the movie with applause. And on approximate 7.02 we have Janek. At least I believe in 4.00 - be it intended or not. :)

Still haven't tried it. It is on my list of things to do.

Unknown to him though, is that when he does, something evil enters.

Does this something evil manifest in something?

I don't want to give away many spoilers to the story, but yes, something comes through a door that he can't see and it takes people's souls and leaves them like zombies.

In the past this chair-argument didn`t convince me much, because the facts that the "blue" rabbit has a male voice throughout the whole movie and that there is already someone in the room, when "Dern" comes into the room upstairs could be clear hints that the "blue" rabbit is Mr. K. But more and more I like the idea that he isn`t Mr. K. This makes it all different. In the "blue" rabbit = Mr. K - variance the last factor behind the Dern character could be someone with something like a "multiple-personality-disorder". But in the "blue" rabbit = Dern character variance the last factor behind what we see from the Dern character could be the rabbit (displaying somewhat for Mr. K which will lead maybe to certain decisions by Mr. K). Maybe we have then an inate meaning of rabbit here like "causing pity" (Mr. K could "think" "What a nice sweet rabbit" and/or "I can only have love for it" (while normally I wouldn`t have "love" for Lost Girl). Mr. K could have his orders like "Horses to the well" (=animals to the well (="heaven","paradise")), "Humans to the well when behaviour was right during life". And the "rabbit" talks about humans. And how this could be (to be in the wrong waiting room?). And Mr. K doesn`t ask the rabbit much.

First, I'll clarify, but also, I have a different view now. My first view was that the rabbit sits in Dern's chair an then immediately we see Dern enter and sit there. I thought this meant that he became Dern, just as the men in the séance became the rabbits. So everything she said in that scene was really coming from Lost Girl; he was her advocate. This would mean that while Nikki played Sue in other scenes, Lost Girl's representative played the part here. I think that is some of what you are agreeing with above. But I have another idea now: Mr. Rabbit (Jack Rabbit is his name in the movie "Rabbits"), is just visiting Mr. K. as himself. He is just dropping by to give Mr. K. an update about what happened at the séance. That's how Mr. K. knows about "the horse to the well", "Czerwone", etc. There was a discussion about this recently on ibdb.com as to who the other person on the phone is. Many people, including myself, think it could very easily be Janek.
I am still wondering whether there is a connection between Mr. K and the "microphone" Freddy gets after the death-scene.

Kind of hard not to see it there. It could stand for Kingsley, Mr. K., or Kubric (whom Mr. K. resembles). Sue leaves Mr. K.'s office, gets killed, then that appears in Nikki's next scene. I don't know. I guess it is supposed to spark something in the viewer.
Piotrek is hesitant about the whole thing but when the rabbit man says to take the pistol, Janek seems to me to accept it and just says, "Let's go!"

No, to me Janek does not seem to accept it. His "We go" is like "We have seen enough here. You shouldn`t take the gun. That would be a wrong way." I think.

Again, I don't see why you think that. I don't see what story it would tell.
The phantom seems to think that the only way to access would be the corresponding decision by Janek. It seems to try all to make clear that Janek has its wish into mind.

In mind doesn't mean favorably. Using the model of asking for a job (whether that is what is happening or not), he says he is looking for an opening and Janek says, Yes, I know what you want. He seems completely unmoved to me, uninterested in doing anything to help him.
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Postby MichaelPW » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:42 pm

applesnoranges wrote:Someone translated the Polish into German and someone else into English.


Would really like to know whether Piotrek says "I don`t see a woman" or "I don`t see her" in Polish. And whether the man says "You understand she sent for you?" or "You know, she wanted to see you." in this language.

Janek brought him there because she sent for him.


And it seems that this information comes from the hereafter or the information that she wanted to see him, respectively. Maybe Lost Girl was murdered as the actress of 4 7 by the wife of "Piotrek" who ("Piotrek") was maybe the actor of 4 7 and killed, too. It seems then that only "Piotrek" was reincarnated as Piotrek (learning in the new life how his wife felt in his former life), while Lost Girl is lost between two lifes and doesn`t know where she is. Maybe she is in the staircase crouching with the screwdriver. Mr. K would be the one who decides about the next step or the next life, respectively.

I don't know if it matters.


The man on the left could be "blue" rabbit. "Blue" rabbit seems to be the one who transcends "worlds" with the help of magic. Maybe he identifies where the phone call came from. "Nikki" obviously was trying to call "Devon" with a red telephone. The connection "crashed" and was diverted to the "rabbit office". Maybe Lost Girl diverted the connection.

I can't see why you think so or what story you are seeing.


The man lays the gun on the table and Janek says "We go" or "Let`s go", respectively. If Janek was on agreement with the gun-solution, I think he would maybe have said "We go" or "Let`s go" after Piotrek took the gun. A gun is a means by which people can be murdered. So when Janek isn`t in agreement with the gun-solution, he isn`t in agreement with the possibility of murder. I think that this can`t be ignored in favour of a certain theory. But the man/rabbit seems to know what he is doing. Maybe he knows that the gun will lead to a discovery in Nikki and to the liberation of Lost Girl.

The word is translated into English as "opening" both times.


That`s strange. In German subtitles it is "Zugang" which could easily be translated in access I think. So maybe the phantom worked for Janek in the past and because the phantom didn't do things right Janek hesitates in the presence to give him a "job". Maybe Janek likes people to reach Mr. K, but the phantom maybe hypnotized Lost Girl and maybe this doesn`t allow her to take the last steps in the staircase.

Why no one sees how amazingly brilliant this is puzzles me.


So I think you mean we have a "loop to reality" here as we maybe have also when we are asked "Who is she?" (if it is true that this is said to the viewer and not to Nikki) and in the "Queen Kelly" - scene. But in case she spoke of the phantom (which makes her fear) this is brilliant, too. So "Piotrek" would know where the problem is. He would understand why Nikki searches for more luck, although she already have a marriage.

That's true, so what would it mean?


I guess it means that everyone followed the phantom. Everyone apart from Gordy. Not interested in the hard facts of life. Wanting more luck.

I thought this meant that he became Dern, just as the men in the séance became the rabbits.


Think this now, as well. And it seems that there was a certain expenditure in the rabbit office to make this possible. Maybe it wasn`t possible for Lost Girl to reach Mr. K. So it seems that the rabbit makes something impossible possible by magic.

Many people, including myself, think it could very easily be Janek.


Why do you think that?
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:12 am

MichaelPW wrote:
applesnoranges wrote:Someone translated the Polish into German and someone else into English.

Would really like to know whether Piotrek says "I don`t see a woman" or "I don`t see her" in Polish. And whether the man says "You understand she sent for you?" or "You know, she wanted to see you." in this language.

I have a lot of trouble with the player and this time it would not play past chapter 22. I took notes of French subtitles and other things I'd noticed this time, but I think I'll have to leave it off for a day and try again. Usually I have to put the disk in and turn it on and off 5 or 6 times before it will play at all, so once it is playing I leave it on and watch part over several days. But this time I'm guessing that it overheated so maybe tomorrow I'll see the rest then answer with all the notes.
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:08 pm

OK let's try this again. I got through it with French subtitles and took notes. The French subtitles are wrong in places about the English but it gives us a third language to look at the Polishi.
MichaelPW wrote:Would really like to know whether Piotrek says "I don`t see a woman" or "I don`t see her" in Polish. And whether the man says "You understand she sent for you?" or "You know, she wanted to see you." in this language.

Here's the whole scene:
LG: Quelqu'un est là. Il faut que je vous dise.... Il y a quelqu'un.
(Janek drags Piotrek into the room.)
Left man: Tu la reconnais ?
Piotrek: Je ne la vois pas.
LM: Tu comprends qu'elle l'a _____ ?
LG: Je ne sais pas où je suis. (She cries.)
P: Je l'entends, maintenent.
Janek: Tu la vois ?
P: Non.
LM: C'était ... rouge.... (To Piotrek): Tu travailles pour quelqu'un ?
P: Oui.
LM: C'est celui dont elle a parlé.
P: Celui pour qui je travaille.
LM: Alors. Tu comprends.
Man with beard: On a conduit la cheval ... au puits....
LM: Prends le pistolet.
J: Allons-y. (This is imperative mood: Let's go. Indicative mood (We are going) would be: Nous allons.)
Voice from left (outside?): Tout de suite ! Il est minuit passé !
And it seems that this information comes from the hereafter or the information that she wanted to see him, respectively. Maybe Lost Girl was murdered as the actress of 4 7 by the wife of "Piotrek" who ("Piotrek") was maybe the actor of 4 7 and killed, too. It seems then that only "Piotrek" was reincarnated as Piotrek (learning in the new life how his wife felt in his former life), while Lost Girl is lost between two lifes and doesn`t know where she is. Maybe she is in the staircase crouching with the screwdriver. Mr. K would be the one who decides about the next step or the next life, respectively.

That fits nicely. When we see the Lucas character dead, I noticed that he is on the stairs, head down. Maybe she killed him by accident. Or maybe the woman in white killed him. Maybe LG was involved in a fight which started when she climbed the stairs. So maybe she is a little bit guilty but didn't quite really commit murder, so she is in a between state unable to reincarnate until some things are learned and a bill is paid (which Nikki pays for her as Sue).
The man on the left could be "blue" rabbit. "Blue" rabbit seems to be the one who transcends "worlds" with the help of magic.

He is the one who became the blue rabbit when the scene dissolved. We are certainly expected to make the connection.
Maybe he identifies where the phone call came from. "Nikki" obviously was trying to call "Devon" with a red telephone. The connection "crashed" and was diverted to the "rabbit office". Maybe Lost Girl diverted the connection.

1. You mean that when Sue called and said "Billy?" that was really Nikki? Why?
2. "... where the phone call came from": Do you mean the call to Mr. K.?

The man lays the gun on the table and Janek says "We go" or "Let`s go", respectively. If Janek was on agreement with the gun-solution, I think he would maybe have said "We go" or "Let`s go" after Piotrek took the gun. A gun is a means by which people can be murdered. So when Janek isn`t in agreement with the gun-solution, he isn`t in agreement with the possibility of murder. I think that this can`t be ignored in favour of a certain theory. But the man/rabbit seems to know what he is doing. Maybe he knows that the gun will lead to a discovery in Nikki and to the liberation of Lost Girl.

Oh. You think he wants Piotrek to leave without picking up the pistol? That the pistol made him change his mind? Hmm. Well, as for the theory, I see many puzzle pieces fitting together there forming something that has never happened in a movie before, so it is what makes the story so overwhelmingly powerful. I don't see how it can be easily replaced. But, about guns killing people, in a way, in this movie, the phantom is the monster and the monster always gets killed but nobody really gets killed. There is always a hint that the monster will come back someday.

I think a mistake was made in the first StarWars movie when it showed everyone so happy that the death star was blown up (the same scene in that movie). Then, after 9-11, American audiences didn't think that was so cool after all, so George Lucas had to back peddle and fill the death star with "clones" to make it not so bad. That's what I think; I think he didn't realize he made a mistake and then tried to cover it up. But in Lynch's movie, we get the same payoff with nobody being killed.

The word is translated into English as "opening" both times.

That`s strange. In German subtitles it is "Zugang" which could easily be translated in access I think.

The French says, "accès". Access. I think he also says somewhere in there "You are looking to go in?" All the same thing.
So maybe the phantom worked for Janek in the past and because the phantom didn't do things right Janek hesitates in the presence to give him a "job". Maybe Janek likes people to reach Mr. K, but the phantom maybe hypnotized Lost Girl and maybe this doesn`t allow her to take the last steps in the staircase.

Are you getting all this from the idea of his wanting to go in? Or is that a general description of the movie? The phantom seems to want to get into the rabbit room because that is what we saw first and which Jack Rabbit left to overhear the conversation. And that's where he is headed, room 47, before Nikki as Sue stops him.
So I think you mean we have a "loop to reality" here as we maybe have also when we are asked "Who is she?"

Like that but more: Nikki meets Mr. and Mrs. Zydowicz, presumably the parents of Marek Zydowicz, the Polish producer of the film. A character meets someone from the real life of someone who helped make the film and also acted in it. Then when the left man tells Piotrek he understands when he says, "The one I work for.", it means that a character in the story, Left Man (blue rabbit) knows something about the people who are making the film: He is talking to the actor, Peter Lucas, who understands that the one he works for, or one of the people he works for, is Marek Zydowicz, who also plays the part of Gordy, the one for whom Piotrek works in the circus. Other actors play the parts of Marek Zydowicz' parents here who are introduced to Nikki by Piotrek. In a way, we could see this scene as Peter Lucas introducing Laura Dern to the parents of the Polish producer. Yes, a loop of reality, but one like which I've never seen before. But that has to be why the character of Piotrek Lucas (Piotrek Król) is given the same name: So that Left man can talk to the character and the actor at the same time. (Gordy had told him he was nothing and had done nothing, but that was Piotrek Król he was talking to. But Piotrek Lucas was very easily able to solve the whole thing by sneaking into Smithy's house and putting the gun in the drawer for Sue to find.)
I thought this meant that he became Dern, just as the men in the séance became the rabbits.

Think this now, as well. And it seems that there was a certain expenditure in the rabbit office to make this possible. Maybe it wasn`t possible for Lost Girl to reach Mr. K. So it seems that the rabbit makes something impossible possible by magic.

The simplest thing is that he just went to talk to Mr. K.
Many people, including myself, think it could very easily be Janek.

Why do you think that?

I'm not completely convinced of it but he is the most likely person because Janek is the one trying to get rid of the curse in the movie by getting rid of the phantom. He and the rabbits and Mr. K. would all be part of the plan to help free Lost Girl by correcting the story.
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Postby MichaelPW » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:31 pm

applesnoranges wrote:Piotrek: Je ne la vois pas.


So it seems that he already knows that he should see here a "la".

This is imperative mood: Let's go.


Aha! :)

So maybe she is a little bit guilty but didn't quite really commit murder, so she is in a between state unable to reincarnate until some things are learned and a bill is paid (which Nikki pays for her as Sue).


Or until it is cleared how far she is guilty. Maybe "blue" rabbit gives Mr. K information as "Dern" by which he can decide how guilty Lost Girl was. When he knows how guilty Lost Girl was/is and Nikki died, he shows Nikki in the hereafter how to free Lost Girl.

1. You mean that when Sue called and said "Billy?" that was really Nikki? Why?


It`s like in the "Don`t you remember anything?"-scene. Names are still corresponding to roles, but the plot is already on a reality-level.

2. "... where the phone call came from": Do you mean the call to Mr. K.?


No, I mean the call to the "rabbit office". The source is Nikki, the mediator is Lost Girl.

You think he wants Piotrek to leave without picking up the pistol?


Of course!

I think a mistake was made in the first StarWars movie when it showed everyone so happy that the death star was blown up (the same scene in that movie).


I think that there was also a mistake in TP, when Hawk killed somebody in the whorehouse with no concern about that. But it seems that David Lynch corrected that in the scene in which Cooper shot Renault. But maybe this mistake went over to Cooper there.

The French says, "accès".


And when Axxon N. means "access to Nikki" Nikki has access to her own after she died. What does she find there? The means to free Lost Girl.

Are you getting all this from the idea of his wanting to go in? Or is that a general description of the movie?


I think it`s a "confundation". :)

Like that but more: Nikki meets Mr. and Mrs. Zydowicz, presumably the parents of Marek Zydowicz, the Polish producer of the film. A character meets someone from the real life of someone who helped make the film and also acted in it. Then when the left man tells Piotrek he understands when he says, "The one I work for.", it means that a character in the story, Left Man (blue rabbit) knows something about the people who are making the film: He is talking to the actor, Peter Lucas, who understands that the one he works for, or one of the people he works for, is Marek Zydowicz, who also plays the part of Gordy, the one for whom Piotrek works in the circus. Other actors play the parts of Marek Zydowicz' parents here who are introduced to Nikki by Piotrek. In a way, we could see this scene as Peter Lucas introducing Laura Dern to the parents of the Polish producer. Yes, a loop of reality, but one like which I've never seen before. But that has to be why the character of Piotrek Lucas (Piotrek Król) is given the same name: So that Left man can talk to the character and the actor at the same time.


Maybe you are right about that and maybe this would work with Janek trying to hold back Piotrek from taking the pistol. I would like such a loop.

Gordy had told him he was nothing and had done nothing, but that was Piotrek Król he was talking to.


Wouldn`t be this problematic?

But Piotrek Lucas was very easily able to solve the whole thing by sneaking into Smithy's house and putting the gun in the drawer for Sue to find.


Maybe this is meant with the "Piotrek sneaking "in the dark""-scene, when "Nikki" is coming home. So he wouldn`t ignore his wife (btw - I meant "my woman & my man, not "my wife & my husband") who says "hello!".

The simplest thing is that he just went to talk to Mr. K.


Too much expenditure in the "rabbit office".
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Postby applesnoranges » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:52 pm

MichaelPW wrote:
applesnoranges wrote:Piotrek: Je ne la vois pas.

So it seems that he already knows that he should see here a "la".
He is answering the question that he was asked, if he knows her.
Or until it is cleared how far she is guilty. Maybe "blue" rabbit gives Mr. K information as "Dern" by which he can decide how guilty Lost Girl was. When he knows how guilty Lost Girl was/is and Nikki died, he shows Nikki in the hereafter how to free Lost Girl. If that is what Mr. Rabbit is doing, it leads somewhere like that. But if he is only there as himself (the man on the left), then it leads somewhere else. It is simpler and I like that simplicity so I hope to see more about that.

1. You mean that when Sue called and said "Billy?" that was really Nikki? Why?
It`s like in the "Don`t you remember anything?"-scene. Names are still corresponding to roles, but the plot is already on a reality-level.

Nikki can play no part in that scene except perhaps to be playing the part of Sue, because Devon has no wife. What is strange about this scene to me is why Sue would do something so completely crazy as to talk like that. It is as if she is deliberately trying to provoke Doris. So several possibilities: Either Nikki has brought Sue into that scene and made her act like that to set the whole death scene in motion (but that doesn't feel right somehow) or the phantom has made this happen. Yet, supposedly Sue got the idea to drive over there after looking through the silk. What she saw we don't see.
You think he wants Piotrek to leave without picking up the pistol?

Of course!

I see how you can see it that way, but what would have happened if he had left without the gun? The phantom would have found his way to the rabbit's room and Lost Girl would be completely under his control (insane). Surely the men/rabbits don't want that, so why then would they even have let Janek bring him there? It would be a completely different story which I don't follow.

btw: On imdb someone identified Janek as the Roman god Janus, a keeper of doors, and it does fit because here he is the guardian of the door to room 47. I don't usually like these mythological things, but that does fit.
And when Axxon N. means "access to Nikki" Nikki has access to her own after she died. What does she find there? The means to free Lost Girl.

People talk about different things axxon n might mean by the way it sounds but none of it rings true to me. There has been a lot of talk about "axons" too, as in the axons of nerves.
I think it`s a "confundation". :)

That could describe the whole movie. :)
Maybe you are right about that and maybe this would work with Janek trying to hold back Piotrek from taking the pistol. I would like such a loop.

I don't see the story of Janek the guardian trying to hold Piotrek back, not on my own, but I'll think about it.
Gordy had told him he was nothing and had done nothing, but that was Piotrek Król he was talking to.

Wouldn`t be this problematic?

Wonderfully so! People talk about the wormholes in the fabric of time that allow characters to move between stories but this is very simply what that wormhole is. Another one is at the end when Lost Girl leaves her room (which she could have left at any time) when she sees that it is only a movie set and she can just walk into Smithie's house and be there. It is Karolina Gruszka who does that. The kiss is like a message of congratulation between Dern and Gruszka for their work together in making the movie.
But Piotrek Lucas was very easily able to solve the whole thing by sneaking into Smithy's house and putting the gun in the drawer for Sue to find.

Maybe this is meant with the "Piotrek sneaking "in the dark""-scene, when "Nikki" is coming home. So he wouldn`t ignore his wife (btw - I meant "my woman & my man, not "my wife & my husband") who says "hello!".

Yes, I think that and also in the earlier scene when he sees Billy/Devon and Nikki/Sue in bed. He is carrying his green coat and it winds up under the gun in the drawer.
The simplest thing is that he just went to talk to Mr. K.

Too much expenditure in the "rabbit office".:D :D :D :D :D

Or invited him to Rooster's bar in Lodz for pancakes.:lol:
Garfed
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Re: "I like pancakes"

Postby Garfed » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:00 pm

I think I should start I think what is happening here: Gordy is a person who will appear in in California and meet Piotrek backyard picnic. Nobody else does, because he is the boss of the tour....
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arigatou
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Re: "I like pancakes"

Postby arigatou » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:29 pm

He looks the way through his glasses remind me "supercilious." His investigation of the facts. He showed her a way of drama.
erniesam
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 6:14 am

Re: "I like pancakes"

Postby erniesam » Thu May 29, 2014 7:12 am

Wow, alot of insights in this thread where I hadn't thought of before. And lots of details discussed that I hadn't noticed. I'd like to address one thing in this post: 47. Like someone said here this is very important. The discussion here has cleared up something for me, at least, I think it has.

Mr. K gets up after the phone has rang 4 times. He answers after the 6th time. So, the number 47 has not been reached.

The girls on the street snap their fingers 4 times. After that Sue snaps her fibgers 3 times. She herself is responsible for the number 47!

When the shoot is over we see that this LB is off her hand. Kingsley calls her Niki 3x but she does not answer. The obvious reason being she is totally confused after that experience, but most importantly: she isn't Niki at all but someone else, that is she is the woman in trouble.

WIT (woman in trouble) refuses a white robe and takes on a blue robe. WIT isn't "innocent" yet and the colour blue represents truth or reality (just like in MD). When she sees herself in the theater on the screen doing something that has not been filmed, she knows she has to confront her demon (drug addiction). So, she leaves the blue robe for she has to go back into this fantasy world.

When we see her hand as she takes the pistol out of the drawer the letters LB are crossed out. I always wondered what this could mean, but thanks to the discussion here I think I understand. We are no longer in WIT's fantasy, that is her unconscious one, but in her conscious imagination (for she is now at the point of confronting the Phantom, her drug addiction). So, the LB (love billy) has been crossed out for at this point she knows all too well that Billy does not exist. It is only when she embraces with lost girl, that is gives this girl her role back and leaves this particular fantasy for good that she is free. So naturally the LB on her hand has disappeared.

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