Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Discussion of Twin Peaks TV Series, Fire Walk With Me, and Books

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

Forum rules
Welcome to the forum. We know our members are passionate about their love for all things Twin Peaks. You wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Despite having differing viewpoints it is a policy that we all treat each other with mutual respect.

Posting abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated, or any material that may violate any laws be it of your country or the country where this forum is hosted will get you permanently banned.

Posting of spoilers are allowed as long as you indicate (Spoilers) in the topic name and use the Spoiler Tag.
User avatar
StealThisCorn
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:53 pm
Location: Laying on Laura's lap in the Red Room / Gorging on garmonbozia with Bob Above the Convenience Store

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby StealThisCorn » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:05 pm

james wrote:Emphasizes which stuff that happened just before? I'm not sure about this.


No, the stuff *just* before, like the Angel appearing to save Ronette and show Laura that there exists a whole other, good, cosmic power beyond BOB, and her decision to take the Ring which protects her from his control.
User avatar
Ross
Posts: 2204
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby Ross » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:50 pm

While FWWM's train car scene doesn't pack the horrific gut-punch of the scene in the series, I don't think its supposed to. We had seen that already. It's basically like the same scene played in a different key. The series scene was played for horror- a literal nightmare. FWWM's scene was played more for sadness and sympathy, which after spending the film with Laura, was the only way to go.

I will say I preferred Laura's look in the series scene- with the matted, damp hair. Another case of the wig in FWWM being distracting.

I'd still love to see any of the cut footage from the FWWM murder. Same with the cabin scene. I'm sure there was a bunch of stuff cut from those two scenes.
"I can see half my life's history in your face... And I'm not sure that I want to."
http://twinpeakssoundtrackdesign.blogspot.com/
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:04 pm

Ross wrote:FWWM's scene was played more for sadness and sympathy


I think this is true, especially the sympathy part (the shots of Laura freaking out and crying are very humanizing compared to the more demonic look of the series, where she almost looks complicit) but for a while the "sadness" part seemed like overkill, almost cruel in a way since the film had already made us feel so sorry for her and now it was almost "rubbing it in" in a way or else being obligatory - paying the price Lynch had to pay (killing Laura) for doing what he really wanted to do (showing her alive, even though the series began with her dead).

What changed my opinion of the scene was focusing more on all the other stuff going on besides Leland tormenting Laura: the ring, Ronette, the angels (especially after reading John Thorne's interpretation, even though we came to somewhat different conclusions). I almost feel like the "murder" aspect of the scene which is what most people remember and look at for obvious reasons is a sleight of hand, distracting us - just like Laura herself was distracted up to this point - from the more fundamental spiritual nature of what's happening. It's interesting that the actual murder itself is such a small slice of the entire sequence - I think about 30 seconds out of 3 1/2 minutes? Though I'd have to go back and check the times.

I wonder how much Lynch intended this, or had his own specific personal reading of what happens there, or simply felt "this feels right" without really questioning why. Probably the latter. Regardless, much as I love FWWM the ending remained a bit of a sticking point for me until several viewing gradually warmed me to the idea that the scene was about Laura defeating Bob (specifically by - I won't say "summoning" - creating a space for the angel in the train car by her compassion for Ronette) moreso than her being killed.
User avatar
StealThisCorn
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:53 pm
Location: Laying on Laura's lap in the Red Room / Gorging on garmonbozia with Bob Above the Convenience Store

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby StealThisCorn » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:51 pm

Right. We know from the series that Leland raped Laura that night also, for example. Thankfully, since this was already explored in the horrific scene where Laura unmasks BOB as Leland in her bed earlier, this is left to our imagination. Though we don't get to see Leland wash his hands and kiss her, as Albert indicated the forensic evidence showed in the series, which could've been played both for sheer grossness like BOB sucking on Maddy's chin but also showing Leland's twisted love and obsession with his daughter. The ritualistic aspect of the murder--the dark magic--is glossed over in the film as well. We don't get to see Leland/BOB craft the mound of dirt, or stab himself (though we do see he has been stabbed when he return to the Red Room to give MIKE/the Little Man their/his garmonbozia) and write "Fire walk with me" in blood. Though we do get the addition of them placing a mirror in front of Laura's face in which she briefly sees BOB, which seems to be part of the transference.

The way the scene is played for sadness and melodrama in the film, however, does deprive me of something that I always felt was part of the story--Laura's defiance of BOB to the end. The grotesque scene of her in the Episode 8 ending shrieking always made me think it was like her screaming back in BOB and Leland's face defiantly, that he/they couldn't have her and she would rather die than give in to his/their influence. I would've enjoyed more of that in FWWM--showing Laura not only triumph but place more emphasis on the fact that Laura is the only person in Twin Peaks to *defeat* BOB--not Leland, not even Cooper.

(LostInTheMovies, apologies if me going into these thoughts moved this thread away from the discussion about this detail from Cannes but they just sort of came out since we were talking about the murder scene)
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:53 pm

No problem at all, personally I like to see the threads wander from time to time!

I think the film means to show Laura's defiance but in a cryptic, allusive way: it is a defiance she herself doesn't totally understand, more to do with compassion or spiritual capacity than outright confrontation (which is how it is presented on the show). The question I guess is why? Why bury the lede so that most people's takeaway is that the scene is about her death above all else (a takeaway that may be incorrect, but has to be corrected by repeat viewings, paying close attention to a scene that is viscerally overpowering and hard to watch, or being caught on first viewing by someone really attuned to the details and sleights of hand which I certainly wasn't the first few times I watched it).

I think, in a way, this may be Lynch's way of preserving the mystery. It's there, hidden in plain sight, but hidden nonetheless. He had somehow felt that the essence of Laura's story was so sacred it had to be kept secret and in a way, FWWM shows him inventing a new essence and one rather more optimistic and beautiful than the original (which was more to do with her corruption than her salvation). Hopefully that makes sense.

Kind of a change of subject, because I know what you meant by defiance, but in a way I guess that too is part of the transformation Lynch makes. If Laura's secret on the show is that she was abused by her father & Bob, and was killed because she resisted him in a negative sense (saying "no" to her corruption) than Laura's secret in the film may be that she discovers something bigger than the limits placed upon her by Leland/Bob and that she was killed because she resisted him in a positive sense (saying "yes" to her transcendence, embodied by both angel and ring). Hence instead if defiance of him we see acceptance...of something else.
User avatar
Agent Sam Stanley
Posts: 1021
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:04 pm

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:28 pm

Ross wrote: It's basically like the same scene played in a different key. The series scene was played for horror- a literal nightmare.


Talk about horror.
I'm an avid horror fan and nothing scared me like that scene back in 94.
rocketsan22
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:30 am

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby rocketsan22 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:28 am

Can someone tell me more about this Wrapped In Plastic compilation?
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:37 am

rocketsan22 wrote:Can someone tell me more about this Wrapped In Plastic compilation?


John Thorne is compiling pieces of interviews and analysis into a big book that will organize the material by episode, of course with a huge section on the film at the end. Can't wait!
User avatar
underthefan
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:21 pm

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby underthefan » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:59 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:
rocketsan22 wrote:Can someone tell me more about this Wrapped In Plastic compilation?


John Thorne is compiling pieces of interviews and analysis into a big book that will organize the material by episode, of course with a huge section on the film at the end. Can't wait!

That sounds amazing! I still keep all of my Wrapped in Plastics, even after I got rid of most of my TP books, memorabilia, and old DVDs. They truly had some of the most astute, beautiful writing about TP and especially FWWM, so I will be first in line to have this all compiled in one place! Do you know anything about when it will be released or how we can get updates on it?
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:56 pm

underthefan wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:
rocketsan22 wrote:Can someone tell me more about this Wrapped In Plastic compilation?


John Thorne is compiling pieces of interviews and analysis into a big book that will organize the material by episode, of course with a huge section on the film at the end. Can't wait!

That sounds amazing! I still keep all of my Wrapped in Plastics, even after I got rid of most of my TP books, memorabilia, and old DVDs. They truly had some of the most astute, beautiful writing about TP and especially FWWM, so I will be first in line to have this all compiled in one place! Do you know anything about when it will be released or how we can get updates on it?


I think it's coming out early next year (or in the spring anyway). I will pass along any updates I hear! I don't think John is updating his blog right now but he spoke to Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast a few months ago and will probably appear again before the book comes out.
Andreas Halskov
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:15 am

Re: Lynch modified FWWM at Cannes chief's request?

Postby Andreas Halskov » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:38 am

@LitM: You should definitely write a book on Fire Walk with Me, and I will continue my work on the Mark Frost monograph. It was so great to talk with you, and I love your take on Twin Peaks, Fire Walk with Me and David Lynch.

As for the Douglas Murray quote, I cannot say that he remembers everything correctly. Many of the cast and crew members have different versions of how different scenes and sequences were made, yet I am certain that they had done a different sound design for the ending of Fire Walk with Me just as Murray says. I love these (mythical) production stories, and I find the discrepancies between different 'crew stories' interesting too.

Return to “Twin Peaks Movie, TV, Books”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests