'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:50 pm

timeandtide wrote:OK, I can't believe I am just realizing this, so I'm sorry if everyone else just rolls their eyes and tells me they figured that out months ago, but for all the discussion of if the mistakes are intentional/why Frost would intentionally make mistakes, has anyone looked at the title?

"The Secret History of Twin Peaks"

It's right there. Remember what the Archivist tells us about secrets vs. mysteries...


Secrets are also portrayed as negative in the series ("Secrets are dangerous things, Audrey," James telling Donna it's the secrets people keep that tear them apart). Definitely a loaded (and very intentional) word choice for the franchise, but I don't see how it really helps to resolve the discrepancies. :-/

EDIT: Perhaps even more tellingly, in Episode 9, Briggs (the Archivist himself) notes, "Any bureaucracy that functions in secret inevitably lends itself to corruption." Wonder what this says about Gordon Cole (who in TSH is actively fighting against the secret-keeping bureaucracy, but in doing so, has seemingly formed his own...)
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raltenbach
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby raltenbach » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:28 pm

On my second read through something struck me (and please for give me if I missed a similar comment already on this thread), but maybe the stamp on Norma's postcard isn't a hint that timelines are being manipulated or anything to that effect, but simply a sly nod by Mark Frost to the conspiracy theory that the moon landing was a hoax. A stamp being slipped out by mistake before the event would be one heck of a piece of evidence. The book is filled with conspiracy theory, after all.

One other error I noticed that was clearly just an oversight is a double "the" on one of the many handwritten pages. I probably would've read right past it had the idea of continuity errors not been present in my mind.

And I would also like to add the obligatory statement that Annie's removal from the story is highly conspicuous and fills me with an urge to re-watch the second half of season 2 and see if I can find any clues, particularly around her arrival. Tangentially, does Margaret have any interaction with her in the series?
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby AXX°N N. » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:24 pm

raltenbach wrote:On my second read through something struck me (and please for give me if I missed a similar comment already on this thread), but maybe the stamp on Norma's postcard isn't a hint that timelines are being manipulated or anything to that effect, but simply a sly nod by Mark Frost to the conspiracy theory that the moon landing was a hoax. A stamp being slipped out by mistake before the event would be one heck of a piece of evidence. The book is filled with conspiracy theory, after all.

One other error I noticed that was clearly just an oversight is a double "the" on one of the many handwritten pages. I probably would've read right past it had the idea of continuity errors not been present in my mind.

And I would also like to add the obligatory statement that Annie's removal from the story is highly conspicuous and fills me with an urge to re-watch the second half of season 2 and see if I can find any clues, particularly around her arrival. Tangentially, does Margaret have any interaction with her in the series?

That's a cool thought re the moon landing!

If it's handwritten, isn't it more likely it was meant to be more realistic? I'm not sure I've ever accidentally handwritten the same word twice, but seems to me a lot of the errors were less cryptic, more an attempt at a different kind of 'more real' realism. Although my next read I will for sure be scrutinizing every typo.

I think the closest we get is Windom Earle in the Log Lady outfit as he steals Annie away.
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The Jumping Man
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby The Jumping Man » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:46 pm

Sequel announcement Monday? Or just a paperback release date?

https://twitter.com/Flatironbooks/statu ... 3855544322
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The Jumping Man
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby The Jumping Man » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:47 pm

(Frost retweeted that, btw.)
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Panapaok
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby Panapaok » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:58 am

Hopefully this will actually be 'The Secret Lives of Twin Peaks'.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:16 pm

So now in light of this new book;

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin ... rost-book/

We know for certain that there are two dossiers, and that all the speculation about hidden layers in the book are correct. What do we think about the apparent mysteries?

Is Major Briggs the true archivist? If so, how did he get access to the bookhouse? Is the Corona typewriter a clue? How many of the documents are forgeries and for what purpose? Is there more hidden in the bookhouse books by mirror image 'good literature is a mirror through which we see ourselves more clearly'. Are the inconsistencies planned?

Thoughts anyone?
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby Rudagger » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:25 pm

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
and that all the speculation about hidden layers in the book are correct.



I think that's vastly premature. I respect Frost, but, I find typically fans over scrutinize things. Sure, maybe the show will come out and it really be all alternate reality, and suddenly moon landing inconsistencies make sense, but, until that's the case I really do just think it's a case of:

A) A tight deadline
B) Fast editing
C) Frost not wanting to be pigeonholed by minute details of the original series (Ed/Norma/Nadine, for example).

I assume this second dossier is just going to be filling the 25 year gap, essentially a second instalment. I feel like the lack of Annie and stuff in Secret History was almost exclusively for spoiler reasons, as the liner notes are written present day, and the moment you'd put a major character in the archive, you're forced to acknowledge it somehow (i.e., if Annie died two days after the show ended, it's hard to reasonably avoid TP commenting on it).

But, keep in mind I'm a bit cynical, so, I respect people for keeping the torch alive and holding artists up to a higher standard.

As for the individual questions;

Is Briggs the real Archivist? Probably, why wouldn't he be? I didn't sense any ambiguity. At most, if there's any tampering I could see it to just hand wave stuff like Annie not being in the first volume, but, I don't think there really is (if just because if the new book really is 176 pages, it feels like a lot of ground to track what documents were altered and why)
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:23 am

Rudagger wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
and that all the speculation about hidden layers in the book are correct.



I think that's vastly premature. I respect Frost, but, I find typically fans over scrutinize things. Sure, maybe the show will come out and it really be all alternate reality, and suddenly moon landing inconsistencies make sense, but, until that's the case I really do just think it's a case of:

A) A tight deadline
B) Fast editing
C) Frost not wanting to be pigeonholed by minute details of the original series (Ed/Norma/Nadine, for example).

I assume this second dossier is just going to be filling the 25 year gap, essentially a second instalment. I feel like the lack of Annie and stuff in Secret History was almost exclusively for spoiler reasons, as the liner notes are written present day, and the moment you'd put a major character in the archive, you're forced to acknowledge it somehow (i.e., if Annie died two days after the show ended, it's hard to reasonably avoid TP commenting on it).

But, keep in mind I'm a bit cynical, so, I respect people for keeping the torch alive and holding artists up to a higher standard.

As for the individual questions;

Is Briggs the real Archivist? Probably, why wouldn't he be? I didn't sense any ambiguity. At most, if there's any tampering I could see it to just hand wave stuff like Annie not being in the first volume, but, I don't think there really is (if just because if the new book really is 176 pages, it feels like a lot of ground to track what documents were altered and why)



I think you'll be presently surprised.

Of course none of the mystery of the book will be clear until we know what the central mystery of season 3 is, but I guarantee there's a lot going on in that dossier. There may be some speed errors, I'm not denying that, but the vast proportion of the book is clearly laboured over.

Personally I think;
1) the fact that the dossier has elements from the book house will form a core mystery in the new series (who had access to the documents)
2) There will be clues hidden by Mark Frost, (visual clues, blue and red images) which may point to suspects and solutions given proper knowledge
3) I think even a lot of the seemingly irrelevant stuff will have weight to the events of season 3, even if it's just thematic links, honestly I have no idea how people became so jaded about this book so quickly, it's not MLMT or Laura Palmers diary, it was written by the major writer of the new season

There seems little doubt that the two dossiers is a direct mimickry/homage to the two mill books from season 1, and will probably implicate everyone as potential tamperers wanting to cover up secrets from the past

Keep the cynicism though, it will only make you more pumped when the new season airs
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby guildnavigator » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:20 pm

Has anyone mentioned that in episode 23 while standing in the RR just before delivering the torn note from Windham Earle to Shelley, Norma says the following to Shelley:

"You know, when she was little, I always used to think that Annie was from another place and time."

Interesting in hindsight
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby kitty666cats » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:17 pm

I'm not expecting it much, but I think it would be pretty neat if Season 3 has a fair amount of scenes that take place in the 50s with an actor playing a younger Dougie Milford, somehow tying things into the current events happening in Twin Peaks!
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby kitty666cats » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:50 am

Does anyone know who is actually in the picture of the young Dougie Milford? Is it a picture of a young Tony Jay? I know the picture of young Robert Jacoby is Russ Tamblyn...
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:29 am

kitty666cats wrote:Does anyone know who is actually in the picture of the young Dougie Milford? Is it a picture of a young Tony Jay? I know the picture of young Robert Jacoby is Russ Tamblyn...


I've been wondering this since we first got a teaser preview of his army registration form! (I have a soft spot for Mr. Jay -- I was a kid when TP aired, and was at that time enjoying Jay's silky baritone impression of the great George Sanders as Shere Khan on Disney's odd Jungle Book spinoff TaleSpin.) it seems like Jay started his screen acting career in earnest relatively late in life, with his first IMDB credits popping up in the early '70s when he was about 40. I haven't had much luck locating any pictures of him online from before the '80s (as LostintheMovies delightfully noted in the character analysis on his blog, Jay had Wilfred Brimley syndrome -- he was only 57 when he played Dougie!). My hunch is that the photo isn't him -- it doesn't look much like him, and considering how little the book character has to do with the series portrayal, and how little screentime Jay has on the series, I doubt Mark would go out of his way to find a young picture of the late actor. But I'd be very interested to know who it is!
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby CuriousWoman » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:30 pm

kitty666cats wrote:Does anyone know who is actually in the picture of the young Dougie Milford? Is it a picture of a young Tony Jay? I know the picture of young Robert Jacoby is Russ Tamblyn...


Mark Frost credited " Image courtesy of the Grampound with Creed Heritage Project" for the picture of Dwayne Milford as Scout Leader. Searching through the site it was a man called Eric Bennett from this picture: http://photos.grampound.org.uk/gallery/ ... d_0379.jpg

http://photos.grampound.org.uk/gallery/ ... otated.jpg

He also credited the picture of Hank Jennings' ancestor as "Photograph of 1930s Man Standing in Field Holding Shotgun and Leash of Gordon Setter Dog by H. Armstrong Roberts/ClassicStock/Getty Images ". Which I found here:
http://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo/ ... /563938403

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We also have the line All images from Twin Peaks courtesy of Lynch/Frost Productions

So the pictures probably are from the Creed Heritage Project (since Frost put the full name of the picture for the one from Getty Images). If you can find some of the other used images please tell us.

Strangely, the picture of a young Russ Tamblyn is uncredited if we go by the book's last page

EDIT: using google search, I found the origin of the young Andrew picture: http://www.ancientfaces.com/photo/class ... out/415601
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Re: 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks' novel by M. Frost 10/18

Postby claaa7 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:59 am

not sure if i've written in this thread before, but i think "The Secret History..." was a really nice read. it looks super nice and is cleverly constructed. sure i was a bit dissapointed that we didn't get more of the Twin Peaks characters but i really like how it's 50% real history and 50% fiction. All that stuff with Men in Black, the Roswell Crash, Jack Parsons and the atom bomb, the O.T.O., etc. really had me going. i'm a big "conspiracy theorist" myself and it's evident that he did his research.. so everbody complaining about "ah he is using all these grey alien clichés and Men in Black stuff that we heard a 1000 times already", well all that sprung from these events so it's actually a well put together research book on some of the most important happenings in UFO history between the 1940's and the 60's.

and then when it finally came to Twin Peaks and the characters we know and love it was a great read although some of the material seemed a little meaningless (the RR menu, some of the stuff we already knew from the series, etc.). the ending of the book really had me on the edge of my seat too... MAYDAY, MAYDAY!!!

and where is Annie? now that is a very strange mystery in itself and i will love to finally be able to find out what's really going on there.. there's definitely something, that much i'm sure of.. much of the other stuff is most likely just slopppy fact-checking with the series but Annie is too big of a fuck up to just write out of history completely.

the only other book i've read by Frost was the first in the "Palladin Prophecy" books which was alrght but not so much my type of book so i loved this a lot more.. Well done Mark, hats off!

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