Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D, Annie

User avatar
Driftwood
RR Diner Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:40 pm

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Driftwood » Tue May 23, 2017 7:43 am

sylviecerise wrote:Other than the fact that Lynch has made it abundantly clear in the past that Cooper was not possessed by BOB,

cooper wasn't, his doppleganger was
User avatar
Hockey Mask
RR Diner Member
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:31 pm

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Hockey Mask » Tue May 23, 2017 7:44 am

Here Comes That Bob wrote:What were general thoughts on Michael Cera scene?

I personally didn't like. It was awkward as hell and lasted far too long. Sheriff Truman's reactions were priceless though.

After seeing the four episodes the first night, when I woke up it was the first scene I wanted to see again. Loved it.
dkenny78
RR Diner Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:36 am

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby dkenny78 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:46 am

I think Evil Coop is both BOB and a unique entity in and of himself at the same time. Sort of like how, in the Christian religion, there's God the Father and God the Son: two different unique manifestations of the same overall being.

We were told in the original series that the people BOB inhabited were his children. At first, I took this in a much more metaphorical way: BOB controlled his hosts in the same way that parents controlled their children. But now I believe that MIKE was referring to the dopplegangers as the literal offspring of BOB, and the dopplegangers act as a vehicle for his essence in the real world.
Cusefan22
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:27 am

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Cusefan22 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:47 am

sylviecerise wrote:Other than the fact that Lynch has made it abundantly clear in the past that Cooper was not possessed by BOB, a strong theory for why it's DoppelCoop and not BOBcoop: the Mr. C that we're seeing cares about not dying and remaining in the physical world. BOB never cared about his hosts (other than perhaps a want for certain
ones, like Laura)—he could move from one to the next. I have a feeling that if DoppelCoop dies, he'll be brought back to the Black Lodge and won't be let out again. This is his one shot to cause mayhem in the world.

Personally, my theory is that DoppelCoop is working with BOB or another evil lodge spirit to go on killing sprees. No one has mentioned this: you could hear the sound of the arm (whooping) in the scene where Mrs. Hastings exits the jail cell and meeting lawyer George. The spirit that has left her has been discussed a bunch here. To me, the implicated is that DoppelCoop and a Lodge spirit worked together to possess Mr. Hastings and Mrs. Hastings (don't think that DoppelCoop can posses, to be clear). The Lodge spirit possesses their human hosts, commits the crime. DoppelCoop frames the killings, cleans up, and kills the hosts.


This lends to the theory that DoppleCob = Mike and Bob possesses the hosts that cause the suffering.
User avatar
bob_wooler
RR Diner Member
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:00 am

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby bob_wooler » Tue May 23, 2017 7:51 am

mtwentz wrote:
Taperecorder wrote:
LaurenceBranagh wrote:Felt the nudity was present only for nudity's sake, but I am thoroughly enjoying this show so far.


Yeah, I agree. It didn't bring anything to the show at all. It reminded me of that inane scene in FWWM where Laura takes off her towel and bares her breasts to James all the while hanging out in the janitors room at their high school. It just felt pointless. I would have much rather the two characters in the glass box room had just made out before the hologram monster thing killed them. It would have been more believable...


I do not know how you can say that until we know more about the entity that killed them.

Thank heavens DL ain't PC.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Lodge Member
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue May 23, 2017 7:53 am

dkenny78 wrote:
lotjx2 wrote:I just want to know how Dale was able to get away from Dr. Brennan and Harry after he smashes the window. They obviously would have heard him or seen the aftermath.


My guess is that Evil Coop attempted, at first, to live under the guise of Good Coop, much in the same way that Leland did. But something happened pretty quickly that made him go on the run and become this overtly bad character. In 'The Secret History of Twin Peaks,' it's implied Briggs figures out something's wrong with Cooper the very day he comes out of the Lodge. Maybe at this point, Evil Coop realizes the jig is up, kills Briggs and heads for the hills?


IIRC, Secret History's timeline suggests he booked it out of town as fast as humanly possible. As in, 24 hours or less. He sees Briggs, Briggs is onto him, heads for his listening post station to warn people; Bad Dale torches it and kills them, then flees Twin Peaks and the known world.

My suspicion is that early on, as episode 29 and the Missing Pieces suggest, the doppelgänger was barely able to function and pass as Dale Cooper. He only gained control and cold focus over time, alone.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Lodge Member
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue May 23, 2017 7:53 am

hopesfall wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:(I don't know why people think it's BOB, I don't)


Because the very last time we saw him, Bob was his reflection in the bathroom mirror.


They're in league, but it's not BOB. It's the doppelganger. Lynch has said that many times, and the premiere reinforces it.

Whether BOB is along for the ride I don't know.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
hopesfall
RR Diner Member
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:33 am
Location: Coventry, UK

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby hopesfall » Tue May 23, 2017 7:57 am

N. Needleman wrote:
hopesfall wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:(I don't know why people think it's BOB, I don't)


Because the very last time we saw him, Bob was his reflection in the bathroom mirror.


They're in league, but it's not BOB. It's the doppelganger. Lynch has said that many times, and the premiere reinforces it.

Whether BOB is along for the ride I don't know.


Obviously, I know it's the doppelganger. But they were laughing together before the doppelganger bolted it out of the lodge, and the reflection shows Bob got out somehow too. Not to mention the voice on that phone call says something like "You will be back here soon, and I will be back with Bob once more."

I thought Lynch said specifically that it wasn't Cooper himself that was possessed?
speedbeatz
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:20 pm

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby speedbeatz » Tue May 23, 2017 7:59 am

A few final stray thoughts after finishing a rewatch of all four episodes:

-There are a total of 3 new characters all named Bill.
-Andy talks to Lucy on a mobile vocal communication device in the pilot, and she didn't seem to have any problems with it then, so that whole scene is just extremely strange and over-the-top.
-All the scenes I expected to grow on me on a rewatch absolutely did, Wally had me cracking up, mostly out of secondhand embarrassment but I think that's the intended reaction.
dkenny78
RR Diner Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:36 am

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby dkenny78 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:59 am

Soolsma wrote:I don't feel like he's BOB either, if he were, we'd see him rather trying to mimic poor good ol' Coop who couldn't help occasionally breaking out in random singing and dancing than being so obvious and forthcoming with his evil traits.


This bugged me at first too but then I realized there is precedent. In FWWM, when Leland is with Theresa, he's much darker, seedier and more sinister than the Leland we knew and loved from the series - he's actually very similar to Evil Cooper from The Return. BOB only mimics Leland (or lets Leland be himself, it's not exactly clear) when he's around people he knows and has to, for lack of a better term, maintain his cover. For the first four hours of the Return, we've pretty much only seen Evil Coop interact with strangers - why would he need to mimic Cooper around people who don't know him? When he does finally get in front of people who know Coop - Gordon and Albert - there is an attempt (awkward and creepy as it might be) to mimic gestures like the thumbs-up, etc.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Lodge Member
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue May 23, 2017 8:00 am

hopesfall wrote:I thought Lynch said specifically that it wasn't Cooper himself that was possessed?


He did, a number of times. He created the doppelganger concept himself to allow this. So I assume BOB is not in there. But he's somewhere. I hope they make it explicit soon.

I am really confused/curious about the scene where the faux-Jeffries and Dopplecoop talk about Cooper(?) seeing Briggs recently. Briggs has been dead since 1989.

Unless he means one of them using the corpse, as others have suggested the headless male in Buckhorn is Briggs.

I think we will see Phillip Jeffries, one way or another.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
Normonaut
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:18 am

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Normonaut » Tue May 23, 2017 8:03 am

I don't think I want to live in a world where people can seriously say "Madeline Zima's butt brought nothing to the show at all" :D
Also, the second scene with nudity was completely natural and fit with the characters. Dougie is a cheating, sketchy character. They just did the deed and she needed to be out of the picture for a minute so DerpCoop could switch with Dougie. It would be very unnatural for her to be clothed just before taking a shower or to "hide" her private parts just for the sake of hiding them, considering what they just did.
Agent Cooper. Listen to the sounds.
It is in our house now. It all can not be said aloud now.
Remember 4 - 3 - 0
Richard and Linda. Two birds with one stone.
You are far away.
User avatar
Soolsma
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:28 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Soolsma » Tue May 23, 2017 8:06 am

I think they're going to use BOB later on, in later and more climaxing situations. E.g. when the Coopers will be having their confrontations. BOB is still a big part of the mystery of the cliffhanger that still is intact, would be silly to take the drive behind it away so early.

Nudity/sex > felt pretty natural to me, unlike for example with GoT.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
User avatar
Nocturne
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:19 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Nocturne » Tue May 23, 2017 8:08 am

sneakydave wrote:
Nocturne wrote:I liked the two first episodes. But I thought episode 3 & 4 were so much better. It was nice to see Gordon Cole! "Holy Jumping George!”


I pretty much adored episodes 1 and 2. I have major issues with 3 and 4 which MAY be related to watching them all in one go.

I rewatched 1 and 2 last night and am going for 3 and 4 tonight. The Cole stuff with Bad Coop was the best stuff so far. More of that please.



I should rewatch episode 1 & 2. I was extremely tired when I watched them...
User avatar
Driftwood
RR Diner Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:40 pm

Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Driftwood » Tue May 23, 2017 8:10 am

the doppleganger comes across like a cooper driven by bob to me. bob but with cooper's disciplined personality and intelligence and skillsets and 25 years of being in full control and well fed and nothing but murder and degradation to do. he's not a wild laughing man now cause he's not a repressed pillar of the community lawyer who only gets to let his dark side out now and then. I don't really see bob as just clear cut possession by some completely foreign entity though, more like that character acting on henious impulses. he's like how sometimes in real life people get head injuries that causes them start acting anti-socially or violently, but also a seperate entity himself at the same time. BOB being some whole other plotline, somewhere else, in some character we haven't even seen yet maybe, just seems unlikely to me. Though maybe. Either way solo doppleganger or bob possessed doppleganger or regular coop driven insane by windom earle, they would all behave the same to me and that would be just like how mr. c has been. also the guy on the radio thing said once he goes back in he gets to be with bob again, which also to me sounds like something mike or the arm would say, but who knows yet.

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests