Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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indyit
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby indyit » Tue May 23, 2017 9:17 am

Rami Airola wrote:
Here Comes That Bob wrote:Was it confirmed that the entity from the glass box was the same one that appeared to walk alongside Coop in the trailer?


No, I think it was clearly a man who was walking alongside Cooper. Someone took a screenshot, adjusted its brightness and it was clearly a man.
To me it looked like Mike but he seemed to have the right arm, so it either is someone else or Mike at some point gets his arm back. Or it was a mirrored image.
But it was a man.


I think it might have been a mirrored image, the man didn't look to have a left arm/hand (we only see the sleeve, no hand).
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Normonaut » Tue May 23, 2017 9:20 am

indyit wrote:
Rami Airola wrote:
Here Comes That Bob wrote:Was it confirmed that the entity from the glass box was the same one that appeared to walk alongside Coop in the trailer?


No, I think it was clearly a man who was walking alongside Cooper. Someone took a screenshot, adjusted its brightness and it was clearly a man.
To me it looked like Mike but he seemed to have the right arm, so it either is someone else or Mike at some point gets his arm back. Or it was a mirrored image.
But it was a man.


I think it might have been a mirrored image, the man didn't look to have a left arm/hand (we only see the sleeve, no hand).

Which trailer is this? I can't remember seeing Cooper walking alongside another person.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue May 23, 2017 9:27 am

The opening of Part 3 is one of my favorite Lynch things I've ever seen, in any of his works feature or short. I'd have to say it's my favorite part of The Return so far. Just so beautiful and arresting and SO Lynchian. I hope there is room for more asides, like films within the larger film, like this.

It also occurs to me that the blind woman, with the bulges of skin on her face, is reminiscent of The Elephant Man. This really is gonna call back to every Lynch film (the world outside that tower very much looks like a Dune variation). So exciting to be getting stuff like this on our screens.

And what a surprise to see Phoebe Augustine there! I wonder if she'll play Ronette as well, or if that was it. I am curious to see what we'll explore when we *fully* get back to town, as I expect we will. It will be interesting to (possibly) see a small stretch of the show anchored by geography, though I expect the whole to continue in a wandering vein.

Here are my reviews of part 3: http://www.lostinthemovies.com/2017/05/ ... -help.html & part 4: http://www.lostinthemovies.com/2017/05/ ... -back.html

As for the Michael Cera bit, God help me but I laughed and laughed and laughed...
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue May 23, 2017 9:28 am

She's not credited as Ronette, but I am still gagging over it and assume it could well be her. I don't expect to see her again but I still want answers!

And I wish Nae Yuuki's character ("Naido") had been Josie, but yes that sequence was amazing.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Here Comes That Bob » Tue May 23, 2017 9:34 am

sneakydave wrote:
Here Comes That Bob wrote:What were general thoughts on Michael Cera scene?

I personally didn't like. It was awkward as hell and lasted far too long. Sheriff Truman's reactions were priceless though.


I loved the shit out of the Michael Cera scene.

I am not ashamed to admit it.

I thought other scenes were awkward and long (the Denise scene was TERRIBLE to me) but nope, loved this one.


I agree with you here. I was really excited when Denise appeared, but my excitment drastically decreased as the conversation went on. The dialogue was really horrible and awkward in that scene.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby mtwentz » Tue May 23, 2017 9:42 am

Here Comes That Bob wrote:
sneakydave wrote:
Here Comes That Bob wrote:What were general thoughts on Michael Cera scene?

I personally didn't like. It was awkward as hell and lasted far too long. Sheriff Truman's reactions were priceless though.


I loved the shit out of the Michael Cera scene.

I am not ashamed to admit it.

I thought other scenes were awkward and long (the Denise scene was TERRIBLE to me) but nope, loved this one.


I agree with you here. I was really excited when Denise appeared, but my excitment drastically decreased as the conversation went on. The dialogue was really horrible and awkward in that scene.


I was too busy looking at Denise (hubba, hubba) to worry about the dialogue. Ha, just kidding :-)
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Troubbble » Tue May 23, 2017 9:49 am

The first two episodes were overwhelming to say the least, and like many, I was taken aback by the marked difference in content and tone. After letting them sink in a little more, and watching parts three and four last night, I am so much more satisfied... and so eager to see where we are heading. There was so much to love in episodes three and four!

Wondering if some of the negativity I've been seeing is simply a result of everyone being overwhelmed by four straight hours of new Twin Peaks all at once. Looking forward to more opinions, once everyone has had time to step away and then rewatch everything.... Here are some thoughts on what has been discussed so far, after watching 3 & 4 last night:

    1.) DoppleCoop vomiting up a gallon of creamed corn and motor oil was as hilarious and surreal as it was disgusting. My girlfriend is not a fan of onscreen puking as a rule, yet still exclaimed with sheer glee: "It's creamed corn!!" Great moment. (And on a related note, just for fun -- did anyone else think Dougie's vomit looked like a regurgitated slice of cherry pie? An easter egg if anything, but we both did.)

    2.) The Dougie Jones storyline is odd, and almost reminiscent of the Kevin Finnerty storyline from the final season of the Sopranos...but Cooper's tenure as "Mr. Jackpots" was hilarious, and I completely loved the final breakfast scene with Sunny Jim. As soon as Dougie's wife put the coffee down in front of him, it was clear it would be a key to re-attaining his sense of self -- and as someone who finds the fetishization of pie and coffee to be the most cloying aspect of Twin Peaks fandom, I still thought this was an appropriate and ideal way to revive that aspect of the character.

    I expect the cobwebs to start falling away in the next few episodes, and wonder how he'll handle the situation as his memories return... Seems like he will have to sort out a new mystery in the Las Vegas underworld before he can make it home to Twin Peaks--and I'm eager to see how that connects to the rest of the puzzle.

    3.) Michael Cera as Wally Brennan was hilarious, and I don't know why his scene was so hated here. I can sort of understand if you dislike Michael Cera entirely, but I have found him hilarious in nearly everything he's done, and felt no different about this scene. My girlfriend and I had been hoping Michael would play Lucy and Andy's son as we waited for these new episodes to arrive, as something about that idea always felt exactly right. We were both laughing out loud throughout his scene.

    4.) I also felt the Wally scene was a nice character moment for Frank Truman, despite what others have said. Much like his brother, he demonstrates a particular kind of warmth and tolerance--reacting to Wally's idiosyncratic personality much as Harry would have reacted to Lucy's in the original run of the show. I liked everything about his introduction as the new Sheriff, and this moment particularly.

    5.) If anything felt slightly odd to me about the terrific sequence in the Sheriff's Department, it was all the new deputies and their hardware. Was the revelation of the second (true) dispatcher and her massive equipment panel just a visual joke, since Lucy is so comically ill-equipped for her job? Are Lynch and Frost implying that the Sheriff's Dept. has been expanded dramatically after the rash of crime and murder in Twin Peaks twenty five years before? Wasn't sure how to take that moment - and the deputy who mocked Lucy needs to be punched.

    6.) Knew David Duchovny would appear in these episodes before I saw them, but I was surprised and pleased by his brief cameo. Makes sense that someone like Denise would be promoted to the upper echelons of power, given today's political landscape... Wouldn't be suprised if that's all we see of Denise in this story, but I don't have a problem with that - even if that does make this a rare moment of fan-service, more than anything else.

    7.) Everything with Gordon and Albert was delightful. Gordon's excitement at the possibility of tracking down Cooper was lovely, and his instant recognition of DoppleCooper's wrongness was chilling. Albert's, too... I found myself unable to look away from Albert's face, as he simmered with rage at the obvious imposter without tipping their hand. (Of course, his anger was partially directed inwardly, as he was simultaneously realizing that the information he shared with Jeffries years ago had been requested for nefarious purposes - and not by Dale Cooper.)

    8.) Though Kyle's snakeskin-shirted Evil Coop was occasionally problematic for me in his initial scenes, I found his conversation with Gordon and Albert to be electrifying as well. His attempts to mimic Dale's affect are even more grotesque than we saw in the original series finale, after over two decades on the run. Kyle's performance and the sound design were both incredible.

    9.) Like everyone, I'm wondering if Gordon and Albert were alluding to Diane in the final moments. Hope that it is true, and that she is indeed being played by Laura Dern. Endless potential there...

    10.) And finally...Agent Preston. I have to admit that I haven't gotten around to reading The Secret History yet, but from what we've seen of the character, I don't have a problem at all. She seems competent and sure of herself, and was undoubtedly brought into the fold by Gordon for a reason. The moment where she sashays away suggestively was kind of useless, but I can't understand why people are so negative on this character, big picture-wise. I'm sure she'll be passable, at worst.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Here Comes That Bob » Tue May 23, 2017 9:51 am

Another thought... It seems that Coop's doppelganger was constantly interacting with Jeffries. I think it's reasonable to assume that he could've possibly encounter Chester Desmond as well, basing the circumstances of their dissappearance and both of them holding a respectable position inside the FBI. Maybe both of them served Coop's doppelganger for the needed informations, whatever they may be. I'm positive that we'll see Chester Desmond in the future.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Manwith » Tue May 23, 2017 9:58 am

lotjx2 wrote:You realize Star Wars is for all intensive purposes a truly independent film much like Eraserhead or Clerks.


Maybe the first film, but calling the prequels "independent" films is pretty silly. Selling Star Wars toys has been big business since the first film:

Between 1977 and 1978, Star Wars sold $100 million worth of toys. 35 years later and Star Wars themed toys have generated $12 billion in revenue.


http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articl ... llionaire/
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby indyit » Tue May 23, 2017 9:59 am

Normonaut wrote:Which trailer is this? I can't remember seeing Cooper walking alongside another person.


What we're talking about is from the "it is happening again" trailer (I think).

Image

I think it's probably Gerard/Mike, but who knows. We don't actually know if this is the Lodge or if this is in the real world. I don't think we've seen this yet any way.

EDIT: The picture was manipulated, it doesn't look like that in the trailer. BEARisonFord is to thank for the sterling work.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby EwanM » Tue May 23, 2017 10:00 am

First impressions:

I absolutely loved the first 20 minutes of Episode 3. Twin Peaks meets Eraserhead. Disorientating, surreal and brain-scrambling. The combination of that weird glitching effect and the incessant thumping on the door was more akin to psychological torture than entertainment, and I had a migraine afterwards, but I was completely transfixed. The Black Lodge was never going to spit Coop back into the real world without a traumatic 'rebirth', but this was something else again. Lynch at his best.

At first, I wasn't convinced by Bad Coop. In his early scenes, he seemed like he'd wandered in from a bad Tarantino movie. Dale Cooper restyled as a badass just wasn't working for me. Then we had that great interview scene with Gordon, Albert and Bad Coop at the end of episode 4. Bad Coop impersonating Good Coop was so unsettling, it was glorious. If I was a sceptic before, I'm a true believer now. Terrifying.

Loved the downbeat scene with Gordon and Albert after the Bad Coop interview. Their mutual realisation that they were way out of their depth in the 'bluest of blue rose cases' was brilliantly done. Note the colour grading of this scene - a blue palette for a blue rose. Masterful.

Not sure I love 'Being There' Coop, but those expecting Coop to segue straight back into his 'smell those Douglas Firs, Diane' good ol' Dale routine are deluded. Not after what he's been though this past quarter of a century. Given the show's premise, his childlike bemusement at the confusing world around him feels believable. This show isn't just about Dale's journey back to Twin Peaks, it's about Dale's journey back to Dale.

So many echoes of past Lynch works here. The box / portal in Manhattan reminded me of the early scenes in Lost Highway (with the mysterious video tapes), and the smashed TV set at the start of FWWM. What are we really watching here, and who is watching us? The slaughter of the distracted young couple, when the demonic entity smashes out of the box, seems to be Lynch's way of telling us to pay strict attention, and be prepared for anything!

The police procedural aspects / murder investigation scenes in Buckhorn, South Dakota remind me of Blue Velvet and Lost Highway, Bill Hastings (a terrific performance by Matthew Lillard, I hope we see much more of him) is as befuddled and bemused as Fred Madison in Lost Highway, a man manipulated by forces beyond his comprehension, but with hints of genuine darkness lurking inside his soul.

I have some sympathy with those who think that the Black Lodge scenes lack a little of the unique texture of their equivalents from the originals, but that black and white scene with the Giant, Coop and the gramophone at the start of Episode 1 blew me away. I also love the 'evolution of the Arm.'

Some of Lynch's compositions in this thing are masterly, he has a painter's eye. The gruesome head / torso scene reminded me of Lucian Freud, and a few of the Lodge scenes have reminded me of another of Lynch's favourite artists, Francis Bacon.

That Sarah Palmer scene, with that insane wildlife tv show, reflected and projected by those mirrors was startling. Like her, we're cast adrift in a theatre of unimaginable cruelty, amplified and distorted by a confusing hall of mirrors.

Lynch's comedic talents are very hit and miss for me, (On the Air was a complete mess, with fleeting moments of inspiration) but I loved the Wally Brando scene. It was patently ridiculous, but weirdly affecting. Any son of Lucy and Andy was going to be an outsider, The Mild One pretending to be The Wild One. So many directors who have aped and appropriated Lynch's style are Wallies in Brando's clothing.

I love the glacial pace of some of the scenes. This is a slow build. It makes the first series of True Detective look like a Guy Ritchie movie, but almost every scene is suffused with dread, sadness, loss or foreboding. Like a rattlesnake slowly uncoiling, this a truly beautiful and menacing beast.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby indyit » Tue May 23, 2017 10:03 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:
Consensus now developing on reddit is that S03 is a Wizard of Oz homage (shoeless Coop finding his way home etc) in which Lucy, Andy and Hawk will later play the Cowardly Lion, the Tin Man and the Scarecrow, Lucy as the Scarecrow needing to find a brain.

To which I'd add that this probably means that S03's general emptiness and absence of decent music = The Wizard of Oz's initial sequence in black and white. So presumably S03 will burst into musical Technicolor when Coop arrives in the equivalent of Oz.


This is a cool idea. I definitely did think that the lack of music has something to do with us not being in TP with Coop, or because things aren't about Laura anymore (for Laura's theme to play during proceedings). This was confirmed by the swelling of the music when Bobby looked at Laura's picture, I thought that was great!
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby connor » Tue May 23, 2017 10:04 am

Dom834 wrote:
Here Comes That Bob wrote:Did anyone notice Franz Kafka portrait in Gordon Cole's office?


Yes, that's a fun odd thing to do for the deputy Director of the FBI.

The portrait I can't identify, but it seems familiar, is the one in the office of the casino "manager" (or whatever he is).

It's a portrait of Howard Hughes.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Normonaut » Tue May 23, 2017 10:09 am

indyit wrote:
Normonaut wrote:Which trailer is this? I can't remember seeing Cooper walking alongside another person.


What we're talking about is from the "it is happening again" trailer (I think).

Image

I think it's probably Gerard/Mike, but who knows. We don't actually know if this is the Lodge or if this is in the real world. I don't think we've seen this yet any way.

EDIT: The picture was manipulated, it doesn't look like that in the trailer. BEARisonFord is to thank for the sterling work.

Thank you, I haven't even seen that trailer. A side-effect of wanting to go in completely "blind".

When it comes to the pictures on Cole's wall: Am I the only one who wants to see him sit on his chair, so his wild hair will form the base of the nuclear explosion on the picture? :D
Agent Cooper. Listen to the sounds.
It is in our house now. It all can not be said aloud now.
Remember 4 - 3 - 0
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You are far away.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue May 23, 2017 10:09 am

dud wrote:controversial opinion coming thru: bobby's moment crying over laura's picture was actually one of the only moments i strongly disliked so far! it felt TOO twin peaks-y, too on the nose, like so little of this show so far feels like the old twin peaks that that moment came off as not being genuine. felt so out of blue and forced that it was jarring to me.


Agree 100%. Bobby cries instantly 25 years later when he sees a photo of Laura? Did he even cry at the funeral?

However,

Is there something else going on here? It almost seemed like an act of some sort? On my next re-watch I plan on paying attention to everything Bobby. Something seems off.

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