"This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

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N. Needleman
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:57 pm

It's what I'm here for.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby KnewItsPa » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:45 pm

Code: Select all

This is the water, and this is the well.
Drink full and descend.
The horse is the white of the eyes  and dark within.


Anagram:

Code: Select all

Leland hits Teresa with this, he twists.
Dale C. lends drunk find.
Sarah the kind wife, host theory, he twists. End.


Not 100% settled on that decryption. But we have Leland / Theresa / Dale C / Sarah, which suggests more than coincidence.

Leland hits Teresea with this? Something in FWWM or the Missing peices? What's the "this".
Dale C. Lends drunk find? Lends the ring to the giant. Drunk as in 'drink full'? - why Dale C rather than just Dale.
Sarah / host theory - reference to the girl swallowing the insect? BOB?. Also connecting the image of a horse and the colour white from Woodsman Poem with Sarah is a strong connection.
The repetition of 'he twists' is odd, dancing? twisting rope?
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby Jasper » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:05 pm

It might be fun, but to be honest, I don't put much stock in the anagram approach as far as it concerns creator intent. You can find almost anything using anagrams.

Henri Matisse = See, art's in him.

The meaning and feeling of the poem really seems to be about parasitic forces descending into our world to feed from our suffering. That's more than sufficiently spooky.

In any case, all of the responses in this thread have been yrev, very interesting.
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby Novalis » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:27 pm

Xavi wrote:My one penny poem interpretation.

This is the water. And this is the well.
Many call these shadow figures Woodsmen, whereas I would prefer to call them Radiation Men. To me they seem to form some sort of collective force, or maybe it’s better to say they represent an energy wave, spreading some hypnotic evil meme. That cigarette radiation man headed straight toward that radio broadcast station very determinedly. "Gotta light?" could be seen as the first sentence (smokers of course) people speak to make "contact."

The way these radiation men move, sometimes randomly jolted coincided with sound-disturbances as if they are vulnerable to interference with other waves and frequencies. They also seem to be able to “go” through objects similar to wave-particle phenomena.

Drink full and descend.
Listen carefully, resistance is futile.

The horse is the white of the eyes and dark within.
Close your eyes and let this force guide you.


Re: "Gotta Light?" I'm slightly surprised that no-one has mentioned the danger involved in lighting a cigarette when coated in what may be highly combustible soot/ash/oil. Light that cigarette and woof, no more. To me a person looking like that and asking for a light seems like a personification of the death-drive. Either that or someone who cannot die in any conventional sense. Maybe that's just my morbid thinking though.

This is the water and this is the well
To me this has connotations of a source or origin (as a well is a water source, a wellspring or origin) but also this is the substance that issues from that source. OR, and this depends somewhat on the inflection, which varies: this is the water (on the one hand, whereas) this is the well (on the other), aiming at a distinction between a substance and the vessel that keeps it together in one location. It sounds a lot like a metaphysical statement, either way. It creates a kind of ontology, albeit somewhat vague: water/well. So as well as announcing a beginning, the phrase likens what has been happening on-screen up until that point to a form of sustenance (life needs water; what do the woodsmen need? fire? light? blood?). Water/well also works to resonate with the imagery of underground currents, subterranean reservoirs, perhaps offering an image of an unconscious mind in the Freudian sense, full of drives and instincts unfettered by ego; for the more conspiracy minded, the intrigue of bloodlines and initiatic transmission of secret knowledge is more than capably handled by the well-established iconology of 'underground streams' (although this latter interpretation has never been my own preference).

Drink full and descend
Immediately puts me in mind of the Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster: "stoop not down into the darkly scintillating world". Only here, of course, the advice is inverted as given an imperative form. It says: forget those wan warnings, drink up! Fill your bellies with the fire-water, and with deep abandon of all that is good and beautiful, let's ride this handbasket all the way to hell. Let's see how far this baby goes. I also note the coincidence of moral abandon with pure consumption: it's only by drinking deep that we can really get free of this sunlit happy world and dive beneath appearances, get beneath the skin.

The horse is the white of the eyes and dark within.
This is the most troublesome part for me, partly because I couldn't make it out originally on my crappy headphones and had to rely on the internet to get the words right for me. However, I'd imagine that the reappearance here of a Twin Peaks staple, the white horse (which has already been used in The Return) gives to the words 'horse' and 'white' very specific connections with a well-established image. I'm not wedded to that image, despite the whinnying noises at the close of the episode. I think it's an unfinished job to stop there. After all, the woodsman says not that the horse is white, but that the horse is the 'white of the eyes'. This sclera has its own secondary significances. Closest to mind for me was the idea that in some militarised societies, in certain situations soldiers were instructed not to fire upon their enemies until the whites of the eyes were visible. Whether that idea has any historical basis I have no idea, but I have heard it said a number of times in different contexts. So the appearance of the horse might well be bound up in a clangy, associational type of thinking not unusual to Lynch (or TM practitioners) with death not just because of the old Christian chestnut of death on a pale horse, but also because of the sclera (the whiteness of which is pronounced in the case of the woodsman) reminds us that they are proximate. Perhaps too close for comfort. "Dark within" seems to ontologise again: look beneath appearances. Light can be the best place to hide something morally dark; radiance often means we avert our eyes and neglect to probe where it's coming from. We get dazzled easily.

I'm not by any stretch saying that this is what the poem 'means'. Nor am I saying that it is wholly subjective. I'm saying, these are some strands of our common linguistic and imaginal web that it disturbs when played out. There are many, many others. Tying all these fragmentary thoughts together is a task for another time, but these were my initial soundings.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby KnewItsPa » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:31 pm

Jasper wrote:It might be fun, but to be honest, I don't put much stock in the anagram approach as far as it concerns creator intent. You can find almost anything using anagrams.


Indeed you can and in many cases it's just fun messing about. But consider this well known line from the original series, for a moment:

Code: Select all

The owls are not what they seem


Anagram:

Code: Select all

The letters show a name, yet who?


As no doubt you'll notice, the anagram has a direct relation to the plot, referencing the letters on small pieces of paper that have been inserted under fingernails of the victims. Indeed, shuffling letters on small pieces of paper is a common anagramming technique - it's almost as if Lynch/Frost are telling us something beyond meer body-horror by using this motif.

All of the other of the Giants original clues are also solvable as anagrams which give further clues that directly relate to the characters in question.

Whether the Woodsmans Poem is constructed in the same way or not remains to be seen.
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby Jasper » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:58 pm

KnewItsPa wrote:

Code: Select all

The owls are not what they seem


Anagram:

Code: Select all

The letters show a name, yet who?


It's a great anagram. I enjoy it, I think it at least adds a little extra fun, and I don't think there's any harm in it, but even so, I do not accept this as slam-dunk proof that it was intentionally crafted by the creators of the show. I am not at all saying that it's outside the realm of possibility, I'm simply saying that anagrams can result in amazing results, simply owing to the nature of the process.

We're unlikely to agree on this point, because it's simply a matter of a personally feeling as to what constitutes proof. We all have our different benchmarks and biases when analyzing things like this. That said, I like the work of bluefrank, even though I don't accept some of his conclusions or theories as far as certain connections he makes between things, but I am fascinated by his savant-like ability to discover so many patterns and similarities. It's a lot of fun, and sometimes he really hits it out of the park.
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby KnewItsPa » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:52 am

Jasper wrote:
KnewItsPa wrote:

Code: Select all

The owls are not what they seem


Anagram:

Code: Select all

The letters show a name, yet who?


It's a great anagram. I enjoy it, I think it at least adds a little extra fun, and I don't think there's any harm in it, but even so, I do not accept this as slam-dunk proof that it was intentionally crafted by the creators of the show.


Glad you enjoyed it, I particularly like the fact that "The letters show a name, yet who?" is self-referential to the process of anagramming itself -almost like a message left behind by the puzzle composer to acknowledge the solver has worked out the correct solution is about arranging letters, much like a cryptic crossword where the answer makes sense of the riddle. Then it ties in with Coopers Tibetan method, resolving who is the name shown by the letter in Lauras diary, as well as indicating that the fingernail-letters show a name. And then "who" at the end, just like a hoot of an owl! It's fun stuff.

Likewise the other Giant clues have similarly entertaining 'solutions'. Of course, anagramming can throw up all sorts of sillyness, but there is a consistent pattern with the Giants speech, which along with the frequent exoteric references to codes, reversals, wordplay, that make it interesting.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of authorial intent, or insist everyone has to join in, just trying to see if the same game can be played. There's no reason the Woodsmen should follow the pattern of the Giant, but there is a certain awkwardness about the line and verse structure that suggests it may.

Code: Select all

This is the water, and this is the well.
Drink full and descend.
The horse is the white of the eyes and dark within.
"Crack the code, solve the crime."
claaa7
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby claaa7 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:46 pm

KnewItsPa wrote:All of the other of the Giants original clues are also solvable as anagrams which give further clues that directly relate to the characters in question.


i really like that and never seen about it.

what are the other anagram re: The Giant

Make sense of it.
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby sylvia_north » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:43 am

A well in Twin Peaks could also be the natural oil "well" in the sycamore grove. This is the "water" meaning "oil" and this is the well/gateway. And the poem is like a sleeping spell from Arthurian legend, with images of darkness and descent, occult references to an element, as the "fire walk with me" incantation was.
The water supply surrounding ground zero in White Sands was contaminated by radiation. Devil's Gate Dam in CA, Parsons and the OTO considered it a supernatural hotbed/gateway (mentioned in SHoTP.) The elements are important in occult ritual "From pure air we have descended."

Wells are gateways to the spirit world in Welsh and Irish mythology. Chalice well, founded by Druids, is at the base of Glastonbury Tor- a gateway to the underworld. Magicians, witches, pagans. Christians and UFO watchers gather there. Famously, sessions of "automatic writing" took place there in the early 1900's (see Glastonbury Scripts) in which the spirit world communicated new knowledge about the Abbey- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, subject of Mark Frost's historical fantasy fiction, was a player in this chapter of history.


Reflecting on the Arthurian references (Dougie lives on Lancelot Court near Merlin's Market,) I got to thinking about the Chalice Well at Glastonbury in England, where the Holy Grail and crucifixion nails are buried, coloring the water red (iron deposits.) The water is said to have inspirational and healing properties. It is warm, warmer the deeper the water, it coagulates like blood, it causes roses and the Glastonbury Thor (tree) to thrive.

The Vesica Pescis symbol on the Chalice Well covering, two overlapping circles like the swim bladders of fish signifying spiritual truth via the eternal process of sacred geometry, a major feature of Glastonbury (and the pyramids, and other ancient structures that the Masons have preserves through the ages.)

There is a sword and foliage in the middle of the symbol- representing Excalibur and also the Glastonbury Thor. This design is essentially the same concept as the Bookhouse Boy patch if you look at the trunk as a space under interlocking circles that are a fir tree shape. It's a symbol that combines the male and female energies of Glastonbury.


Sir Gawain rides a white horse, from the Grail stable. The white horse of the Apocalypse is Pestilence, also symbolizes fertility in Celtic tradition.
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby IcedOver » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:22 pm

I wonder who was the one who came up with this intriguing little poem - Lynch or Frost. One could make a case for either.
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby Saturn's child » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:40 pm

"Ascend and descend; descend with Nephthys, sink into darkness with the Night-barque.
Ascend and descend; ascend with Isis, rise with the Day-barque."

- Pyramid Text 222
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby Novalis » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:00 pm

I watched Blue Velvet again last night and Frank Booth says: 'I shoot when I see the white of the eyes'. It's during his outrage when taking Jeffrey Beaumont and Dorothy Vallens for a 'joyride' with his motley crew, and Dorothy has been looking concernedly at Jeffrey. Frank goes ballistic, turns round from his position in the front seat of the car and starts intimidating Jeffrey directly face to face, at which point Jeffrey makes the cardinal mistake of looking him in the eye.

To bring this back home again; the horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within.

What horse? The get-go? The off? The impulse or urge to move, to fire the shot, to begin? It's an intriguing and emotional idea.

Also a cursory search on my putative military order 'don't shoot until you see the white of their eyes' returned the result Battle of Bunker Hill. Stories about the battle apparently popularized the saying. Maybe many of you already knew all this; being British I didn't.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby sylvia_north » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:52 am

Adding to my Grail/Glastonbury theory :

"The literal view of the Tree of LIfe is derived from ancient cosmogonies that viewed the realm of the divine as a real place that could be reached by travelling upwards (although paradoxically the Merkavah mystics travelled down). There was a sub-lunary realm, the spheres of the planets, the fixed stars, and then various divine realms. The divine realm was structured into heavens, or experienced as the palace of a king that must be negotiated in a manner somewhat like the protagonist in KAFKA's The Trial." ---> *Kafka's portrait is hung in Cole's office

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/themes/fourworlds.php ** see the bottom right Extended Tree 4 world representation that includes the realm of Binah; the episode 3 ocean (the Abyss) and the mauve tower of Binah, the Supernal Maternal who is associated with SUFFERING and understanding, the beginning of time and the solidification of energy into the physical universe.

"If you drink or eat from a Holy Grail, or even just touch it, its power will enter you and initiate a process of alchemical transformation that will subsequently heal you, enlighten you, and possibly even make you immortal" - wikipedia

The occult (the secret or shadow Graille wisdom) has everything to do with the Tree of Life. "it is an ancient lifeline to the spiritual origins of creation. Its energetic forces radiate out from the Earth and in from the constellations and planets, while interacting with human individuals. It represents the key to fulfilling humanity’s quest and the next step in human evolution" - Sylvia Francke, The Tree of Life and the Holy Grail.

The Bhagavad Gita talks about the Descent or "Avatarna" as a soul that's experienced many lives of suffering and seven lives of effort returning the Light (fruit of the tree) of the universe back to share with his still-perfected vehicles of mind and body (which are etheric body, the mental body, the emotional body and the physical body aka “the four lower bodies”) on the material plane as opposed to keeping the fruit and becoming one with the universe.

*** The etheric body is the FIRE body *** More about the vehicles here, https://www.summitlighthouse.org/inner- ... o-healing/ **


The Self leans on or “embraces” the Dark
Nature, and at that embrace the seeds of plurality buried
within from previous universes shoot into life and the Great
Descent begins. This Descent is a graded perception of
increasing objectivity. As the Self “gazes” at each level a
further objectivisation takes place, resulting in plane after plane
of being. Through the mystic union with these levels ® the
whole Cosmic Machine, down to the so-called gross objective
matter, whirls and revolves with the indwelling Life, for, as
Hermes says, “not a single thing that is dead hath been or is or
shall be in this Cosmos.”


It says that the cosmic tree's branches, from which all things are created, spread up and down- with every reincarnation as one ascends and descends the ladder of the Tree and its spheres or Sephirah (upper- spiritual, consciousness; lower- humanity, material sense objects like a chair,) the Cosmic Tides move upward in the upper realm and downward in the lower. Each Sephirah acts as a container or vessel through which Divinity is emanated into man. The sticky sprouts ensnare the karma of man and he goes from one universe to the next and back. The Tree is symbolic of the flow of creation from the divine to the lower world and back again.

(Also, didja know the text mentions that the sacred sycamore fig-tree (Egypt) has seven branches, as do some representations of the Tree of Life?)


Crowley talks about the Tree of Death which descends as the shadow aspect aligned with the Tree of Life as in the photo) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qliphoth
Fans in the past have noticed the possibilities of a Tree of Life as White Lodge / Tree of Death as Black Lodge interpretation.

* Samael: The Desolation of God, or The Left Hand
“Hod is the complex working of the will of the Absolute. Samael represents the barren desolation of a fallen and failed creation
* Golachab: Burning Bodies
“Geburah is a going forth in power to rule in righteousness, in an upright manner. The order of Golab is composed of those who burn to do destruction, enforce their will upon others through strength and not righteousness, in a non-upright manner --- even on themselvesAsmodeus: The Destroying God or Samael the Black.
To Golachab, Asmodeus is attributed. “This name is half Hebrew and half Latin. Asmodeus is often mentioned in the literature of demonology. The name can also be translated as 'The one adorned with fire'.” Whom they call also Samael the Black.

Here is the sword (Excalibur and the Bookhouse symbol) as Tree of Life.
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KnewItsPa
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby KnewItsPa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:37 pm

claaa7 wrote:
KnewItsPa wrote:All of the other of the Giants original clues are also solvable as anagrams which give further clues that directly relate to the characters in question.


i really like that and never seen about it.

what are the other anagram re: The Giant

Make sense of it.


I'll put some S1 notes together in a different thread another time, but for now:

The giants clue

Code: Select all

there is a man inside a smiling bag

Which we discover is a reference to Jaques Renault. The clue can be anagrammed to:

Code: Select all

gambling den is his main area site

which also seems to be a reference to Jaques Renault, whose main job is as a croupier at One Eyed Jacks. The other two clues can also be 'solved' in such a way that refers to the characters the original lines refer to - Leo Johnson and Mike Gerrard.
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Re: "This is the water, and this is the well..." poem (Spoilers)

Postby rmholt » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:35 pm

Pardon me if this has been mentioned but I think it's a spell that wakes up the evil (including dragon bug) & sedates the people for the moment. The sleeping girl appears to dream after the bug enters but not later.

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