Scene 35

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applesnoranges
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Scene 35

Postby applesnoranges » Tue May 20, 2008 2:00 am

I didn't see a Scene 35 thread here but this has been discussed and I didn't see where else to put this. This is just a rough run through so feel free to make changes, but this is how I counted scenes in IE up to that point.

1. spotlight on logo
2. record player/ brain
3. hotel hallway, what's wrong with me?, rape, fear
4. LG watching Fred's blank TV
5. Rabbits: I have a secret. Jack apparates in Janek's lounge.
6. Janek and the Phantom wanting to go in
7. Visitor #1 stays for coffee
8. Tomorrow: Nikki gets the part. Lucas on the stairs.
9. Kingsley's speech in the office.
10. Starlight Celebrity Show.
11. Devin's crew warns him. Nikki's congratulates her, ties hair in pony tail.
12. Nikki arrives at work, front page of OHIBT. Nikki and Devon have coffee.
13. Kingsley talks about going through scenes, for instance scene 35.
14. Nikki and Devon go through scene 35.
15. Freddy hears something. Devon goes to look. Arrives at Smithy's house.
16. Kingsley explains the curse.
17. Nikki meets Mr. & Mrs. Zydowicz
18. Doris in the police station
19. Nikki and Devon film the grden scene.
20. "So we're going to leave this lovely weather!"
21. Freddy bums a few bucks.
22. Getting hair styled. "Who is playing Smithy?"
23. Clearing dishes. "Where did everyone go?"
24. Piotrek lays it out to Devon.
25. Stuff on the set: Bucky J. and the 2K. Work on these lighting cues. Nikki waits in blue robe.
26. Susan stays for a drink with Billy.
27. More discussion on the set, lighting, Freddy hits up a few more people.
28. Devon invites Nikki to dinner.
39. Billy gives Susan a feel under hot lights.
30. "It sounds like dialogue from our script." Susan sees the movie set.
31. The producer talks to Devon about stories.
32. The kissing scene.
33. Nikki and Devon and Susan and Billy in bed. Today but I know it's tomorrow.
34. Nikki brings groceries to Adam's car and sees the predicted Axxon N. sees herself rehearsing scene 35.
35. She runs into Smithy's house "” Devon/Billy arrives to see her looking out the window.
MichaelPW
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Re: Scene 35

Postby MichaelPW » Tue May 20, 2008 8:16 am

Thank you very much for writing down these scenes, applesnoranges! Very interesting that we have "Dern" and "Devon" at Smithie`s house in scene 35. Probably this is how it was meant to be. I would exclude the spotlight scene and include the moon scene.

btw - Why do you write "LG watching Fred's blank TV"? Is Fred the product name of the TV?

5. Rabbits: I have a secret. Jack apparates in Janek's lounge.


Maybe it`s Janek`s lounge. But maybe there`s also a further owner.

6. Janek and the Phantom wanting to go in


Why do you think that Janek wants to go in?

33. Nikki and Devon and Susan and Billy in bed. Today but I know it's tomorrow.


:)

35. She runs into Smithy's house "” Devon/Billy arrives to see her looking out the window.


So maybe we have additional information about scene 35 from scenes 13 and 14. And maybe when they talk about what was yesterday they maybe talk about the Starlight Celebrity Show. Or about things that happened in the near of scene 33.
applesnoranges
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Re: Scene 35

Postby applesnoranges » Tue May 20, 2008 10:42 am

MicahaelPW: Most of the answers to your questions are just my sloppy writing. I wrote these as notes to myself and then didn't clear them up enough.
MichaelPW wrote:Thank you very much for writing down these scenes, applesnoranges! Very interesting that we have "Dern" and "Devon" at Smithie`s house in scene 35. Probably this is how it was meant to be. I would exclude the spotlight scene and include the moon scene.

I wasn't sure about the spotlight but some people think it's a scene in the movie because of the arguments about lighting later on. Yes, that might be cut and something else put in. Or scenes I've noted combined or split apart. But somehow or other it winds up close to Scene 35 where we see Scene 35.
btw - Why do you write "LG watching Fred's blank TV"? Is Fred the product name of the TV?

I mean Fred and Rene's TV from Lost Highway. It seems to be the same TV.
Maybe it`s Janek`s lounge. But maybe there`s also a further owner.

Just words to identify the scene.
6. Janek and the Phantom wanting to go in

Why do you think that Janek wants to go in?

Again, just not being careful with language. I meant Janek talking to the Phantom, who wants to go in.
So maybe we have additional information about scene 35 from scenes 13 and 14. And maybe when they talk about what was yesterday they maybe talk about the Starlight Celebrity Show. Or about things that happened in the near of scene 33.

I think what she says applies all through the film; she is only talking about that one scene with the groceries and the Axxon N, but the same thing, "yesterday but I know it's tomorrow", happens everywhere, again and again. It seems that this is how the story is told. In a way, she's saying the same thing Visitor #1 said as, "Me, I can't seem to remember if it's today or yesterday or two days from now." Another example: When we hear Freddy saying for the second time, "I know, I got a lot of nerve ...", etc. It's just a reflection of the first time he said it in a different place. It's why the audience laughed when the rabbit asked, "What time is it?"
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Re: Scene 35

Postby Carl » Tue May 20, 2008 3:14 pm

Well, Scene 35, IE sort of dove-tails on your List, I guess, somewhat, with the scene they are rehearsing when interupted by Sue going through the axxonN door, linking OHIBT with IE.
What is it that Sue invites Billy to see in the next room, during the scene they are rehearsing? A gun? Is she trying to warn him off?
Aopparently, they are not yet lovers, though I suppose there is an off-chance chance that they're simply shooting OHIBT out of sequence.
Kiddo
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Re: Scene 35

Postby Kiddo » Tue May 20, 2008 6:13 pm

Amazing post! (referring to the OP)

Btw, have you broken down the entire film by scenes? And if so, how many scenes are there?
applesnoranges
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Re: Scene 35

Postby applesnoranges » Tue May 20, 2008 8:38 pm

I just wanted to go that far because that is what Kingsley says he wants them to go through, scene 35. So it seems that he is talking about the movie he himself is in because scene 35 is just as he described and so is the scene that Devon goes through just as he suggested. I've been curious about that for a long time and just got around to counting. Some of my scene numbers may be wrong so maybe we can tighten it up eventually.
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jina
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Re: Scene 35

Postby jina » Wed May 21, 2008 8:18 am

nice job apples..!

applesnoranges wrote:2. record player/ brain


why brain?

35. She runs into Smithy's house "” Devon/Billy arrives to see her looking out the window.


when they start reading the script they seem as they are actually talking about what happened the previous day on the tv show.
and when sue says "oh shit Billy, look into the other room" it's like they are referring to what is going to happen.
Kiddo
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Re: Scene 35

Postby Kiddo » Wed May 21, 2008 10:16 am

I hope you don't mind my getting a little bit critical here. I like the idea of this theory, so I'm going to put it under a magnifying glass. Let's work out the kinks.

2. record player/ brain

Although I understand what you mean, I don't believe that the image we're looking at is really meant to be a brain. That said, I don't know what the heck it is.

3. hotel hallway, what's wrong with me?, rape, fear

No way is there rape involved in this scene. It is consensual, loveless sex.

4. LG watching Fred's blank TV

Fred who? All we know about this room is that it is #250 at the "Old Hotel."
MichaelPW
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Re: Scene 35

Postby MichaelPW » Wed May 21, 2008 1:28 pm

Yes, I would like to know it, too. Why brain? I have "no" idea about that.

I wonder what we can find in scene 47. :)

What Sue apparently wants to know when they go through scene 35 is whether he loves her. That is probably behind "Were they the truth?".

The woman in the hotel room seems to be in a strange manipulatable mental state. She probably is hypnotized. So "rape" is quite a good description.
MichaelPW
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Re: Scene 35

Postby MichaelPW » Wed May 21, 2008 1:33 pm

4. LG watching Fred's blank TV
...
7. Visitor #1 stays for coffee


..maybe a "hidden" message here..
applesnoranges
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Re: Scene 35

Postby applesnoranges » Wed May 21, 2008 4:20 pm

Kiddo wrote:Although I understand what you mean, I don't believe that the image we're looking at is really meant to be a brain. That said, I don't know what the heck it is.

OK, whatever it is. I just called it a brain as a guess.
No way is there rape involved in this scene. It is consensual, loveless sex.

I don't agree with that at all. Too many things suggest that this woman has been hypnotized and made to believe that she is a prostitute. That's why she thinks it is her room but can't find the key. He says she gave it to him as part of the suggestion but we know from the Kinski retelling of the story that it was his room. Then he continues to prompt her by asking her if she nows what whores do. Then she is terrified during the sex. Kidnapping and forcing women into prostitution is an enormous problem in Eastern Europe almost impossible to do anything about. There is a PBS Frontline movie about this on the web which is really an eye opener. http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=161 btw I don't think there is a room 250 in this movie.
Fred who? All we know about this room is that it is #250 at the "Old Hotel."

Fred Madison from Lost Highway. It's the same TV. It was originally a note to myself. I thought I explained that. There are a number of things like that from other movies. Like when they are arguing in bed about who they are and Dern says to Theroux she's bringing groceries to his car, we wonder which Theroux character owns the car, Devon or Billy. But then we see that it is Adam Kesher's car.
applesnoranges
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Re: Scene 35

Postby applesnoranges » Wed May 21, 2008 4:24 pm

Carl wrote:What is it that Sue invites Billy to see in the next room, during the scene they are rehearsing? A gun? Is she trying to warn him off?

I don't know. I don't think we see what comes next from there.
applesnoranges
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Re: Scene 35

Postby applesnoranges » Wed May 21, 2008 4:28 pm

jina wrote:when they start reading the script they seem as they are actually talking about what happened the previous day on the tv show.
and when sue says "oh shit Billy, look into the other room" it's like they are referring to what is going to happen.

Jina: Can you say more about this? I'm not following why these refer to the day before and the day after. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow seems to be one of the major themes of IE but I'm not clear about what you mean about these lines.
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Re: Scene 35

Postby Kiddo » Wed May 21, 2008 5:45 pm

OK, whatever it is. I just called it a brain as a guess.

Yeah, this is another one of IE's ongoing little mysteries.

I don't agree with that at all. Too many things suggest that this woman has been hypnotized and made to believe that she is a prostitute.

I am also open to the possibility that the woman is hypnotized, but that's just one possibility. The woman casually undresses, engages the man in sultry banter, and expresses a clear awareness that she is about to have sex with him.

Also, we should keep in mind Kinski's description of how this scene went down. She begins by saying something to the effect of "I just had the most incredible experience." And she says it with quite a dreamy smile.

And finally, when Sue recounts this scene to the prostitutes, she and the girls get a big kick out of it. Clearly they are not laughing at a story about rape.

So the bulk of the evidence tells me there is no rape in this scene. In fact, there is mounting evidence to suggest that it is the woman who is up to no good here.

Fred Madison from Lost Highway. It's the same TV

and

Dern says to Theroux she's bringing groceries to his car, we wonder which Theroux character owns the car, Devon or Billy. But then we see that it is Adam Kesher's car.

Fred's TV is all black, while LG's is silver with black framing the screen. Totally different models.

But on a more positive note, Adam's car looks pretty much identical to Devon's if you ask me. And while there are no plate shots to verify that they are the same car (as opposed to same model) I think it is a very interesting observation. Good eye, apples.
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Re: Scene 35

Postby jina » Thu May 22, 2008 6:18 am

applesnoranges wrote:
jina wrote:when they start reading the script they seem as they are actually talking about what happened the previous day on the tv show.
and when sue says "oh shit Billy, look into the other room" it's like they are referring to what is going to happen.

Jina: Can you say more about this? I'm not following why these refer to the day before and the day after. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow seems to be one of the major themes of IE but I'm not clear about what you mean about these lines.


they rehearsing in a very serious way (like they should), so there's the impression that they are talking as nikki and devon.

she asks him if those things he said were the truth. The previous day he said that there was no way he would do anything with her. (but he actually did)
the dialogue is very open and since OHIBT is about a forbidden love story, it relates to this.

and then she tells him to look into the other room, which he actually does.

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