Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

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Coffee
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby Coffee » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:14 pm

I find it very interesting that the plan was to have Earle 'infect' Twin Peaks with the Black Lodge. That sounds like it would have been wonderful. It also sheds light on the Lynch designed Gold Box artwork:

Image

Could he STILL be giving us clues after all these years?
Rami Airola
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby Rami Airola » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:01 pm

TheArm wrote:- He confirmed that BOB, MIKE and the other Lodge spirits originated from Garmonbozia, a planet covered entirely in creamed corn and where everything moved backwards. He said that he revealed this to the guys from Wrapped in Plastic in an interview for their final issue, but they didn't use it (because he thought they wanted to keep the secret to themselves).


Maybe they didn't use it because Robert had already said it in a previous interview at issue number 58. I guess Robert really has a problem remembering things :D


Anyways, thanks for sharing what you heard in the interview! It's all really interesting stuff. I'm particularly interested in Robert Angels as he seems to be so enthusiastic about these metaphysical and scifi stuff on Twin Peaks. I think I've heard more about these things from him than from David or Mark.



Jouster wrote:As best I can remember, he segued into that directly from talking about Fire Walk With Me, and my mind immediately went to Cooper seeing himself in the hallway surveillance footage. I'm still turning it over in my mind, but I think the discussion for this is definitely rooted in that particular scene.


The issue 58 of Wrapped in Plastic has an interview with Robert Engels.
He says:
"There's a great part of Twin Peaks that's builton sort of an altered reality just behind the reality that is happening. The exact same thing is happening two nanoseconds behind the thing that you're seeing. Or there is another one just in front of it that's exactly the same. For me, that means the Red Room is much more metaphysical. That would explain the two Coopers very easily - there is another Cooper just behind the other Cooper. It wasn't that we consciously put those things in the series, but David and I talked about that. It was a cool thing to think about as you wrote."

And later when talking something about the security camera scene:
"I remember that security camera stuff, and I remember us figuring that out - how you could be on camera. [...] Although it is still science fiction, we didn't want to get into time travel. But, of course, it is time travel. If you go back to what I was saying about those two reality running next to each other, it isn't time travel. They're just sort of here. It was like photographing these realities converging. He is there when he is not there. They are looking at another time."


So, yeah, they certainly had this "two realities following each other" thing thought out while filming the security camera stuff.
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby nemo » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:59 pm

Excellent work! Thank you very much :)
Could you also quote his comment about the planet from the magazine :?: I would be very thankful too :wink:

I'd like to thank dugpa for the link to the article about Judy too. The phrase "Her sister's there, too. At least part of her." is terrific. I read it for the first time, for it seems to be deleted from the script. But the author seemed to forget about Elga :lol:
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby Rami Airola » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:54 am

nemo wrote:Could you also quote his comment about the planet from the magazine :?: I would be very thankful too :wink:


Wrapped in Plastic had got a letter from someone who witnessed Engels talking about Twin Peaks at a film school in Minnesota after the release of FWWM in 1992. The letter mentioned Engels talking about the third season of TP. They asked Engels to confirm the things the letter mentioned.

The question about the planet:
Another thing the letter claimed is that the origin of Mike and Bob was a planet of corn, that they "fell out with each other on December 31, 1951, and Bob stole a can of corn from Mike. The chase eventually led to Twin Peaks." What can you tell us about this?

Engels answers:
I was being somewhat facetious there, [but] that's pretty close to it. That's one version of it. There's a draft of Fire Walk with Me that's a three-and-a-half hour movie. David and I talked about that. [But] David wants what's on film to be what it is. To go back and say they're from a planet of corn - yeah, but we didn't, so it isn't. It was part of the idea we talked about. Working with David, none of these things become solid until they're shot. The shooting script of Fire Walk with Me describes the bar scene as "everybody getting roasted and toasted." That's all it says. It's what David decides to do then. He'll decide what it is.
But there was this idea of a field of corn, and we would shoot it backwards so that Michael Ontkean would have to drive a jeep a mile-and-a-half backwards. It was a pretty cool thought! I think that's part of where the corn came from: "Wouldn't it be cool to see Michael have to drive his trooper backwards for that long?!" [Laughter]


Engels continues:
The plan was to get them back to their planet. He had to drive them to a portal. No wonder we didn't shoot it! [Laughter]

The interviewer comments:
Knowing Lynch's work, he never seems to be this specific about anything. It seems unusual that he would define their place of origin as a "planet."

Engels replies:
Planet is the wrong word. It would be "another place." Those are my words, but I think it's fine.

The interviewer comments:
We ask these questions because there are obsessive Twin Peaks fans out there - and I won't entirely exclude ourselves from that group - who get caught up in definitions. They think, "Well, if they said it's a planet of corn, then it's got to be a planet!" Then they start concoting bizarre scenarios around all that.

Engels replies:
Well, David would say it is a "place." It's an "area." Or it's all a dream. So if you think it's a planet, it's a planet. But the corn is real, and there are waves of corn and creamed corn; so you figure it out. David is honestly and truly not being duplicitous and facetious. He just loves that stuff, and it should be what you think it is. That's what's fun about it.




I guess David doesn't see planets and space just as material places. I think he sees them more metaphysical, more spiritual areas.
To say Mike and BOB are from a planet of corn isn't necessarily meaning they are aliens, or at least what we usually think aliens are. I'm throwing up a wild theory here, but what if it is so that our source for emotions and spiritual sides and stuff like that are also physically out there somewhere. As Mrs. Tremond said in the script of FWWM, "Why not be composed of materials and combinations of atoms?"
Space could be the area where these metaphysical things and thoughts dwell. While they roam around in space and planets, we can't physically see them but they are in our consciousness all the time. But as these forces get physically in the air of our planet, some people (the gifted and the damned) will be able to see them even outside of their dreams and see what these forces truly look like.
Why these kinds of abstractions (love, the will to do evil things, lust, fear) couldn't be also composed of materials and combinations of atoms. The source for these things could be around there somewhere. In some another place. These materialized abstractions could still be connected to our minds in our world in this earth via place such as the Red Room. And while it might seem these abstractions and the area they are from are physically far far away, spiritually they are as close as they can get. They are right around us and inside of us, just as our Doppelgangers are right here but just a couple of nanoseconds behind in time.

I guess the mythology behind Twin Peaks is heavily connected to David's thoughts about Transcendental Meditation and the Unified Field he likes to talk about.




EDIT:
Buy the magazine from http://spectrummagazines.bizland.com/storefront2.html
I got my copy from there. The interview is really interesting and very lengthy.
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby nemo » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:19 am

First of all - thank you VERY MUCH for your work!!! :D
I was disturbed by the fact(being ,,an obsessive" TWIN PEAKS lover :lol: ), that ,,they" originate from some planet. It frustrated me very much, I mean, knowing about the concrete planet, where they came from, but the interview you presented destroyed my concern 8) David Lynch's vision of ,,another place" or an ,,area" is quite reasonable, near to TWIN PEAKS world and to me also of course. After some reflection I must say, that there was always this idea with me, that there might be a ,,bigger place" behind the Waiting Room/the Red Room"/the Black Lodge".
Your theory isn't wild at all. I share it in fact. These ideas were expressed by many people also. The elusive awareness of the real existence of the abstract feelings, senses and thoughts can evidence their existence in our world. This thought was expressed by Kant in his "transcendental unity of apperception", which served as the proof of the existence of God. If there is a pure idea of good or evil, there must be its extreme concentration, which takes some forms, incomprehensible for human minds. It corresponds to the words of Windom Earle. Such character as BOB can be interpreted as the concentration of evil.

The interview must be very interesting. Anyway it would be worth buying this number.

And one more thing: I've just recalled the phrase of LMFAP, who said, as far as I can remember: ,,where we're from the birds sing the pretty songs and there's always music in the air." Maybe it WAS A DIRECT REFERENCE to that ,,other place"?! This idea was once expressed by my friend, at that time we didn't even know about Robert Engels interview.
The image of Major Briggs sitting in the jungle may also refer to the ,other place" too, maybe it is one of the possible ,,areas" or the opposite ,,area" to the one, which is covered by the cream corn. It seems to me, that the boundaries of the ,,other place" weren't even in the series restricted to the ,,other place" we saw.
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby Rickio Woods » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:44 pm

Really? I don't remember Mike having someone voice his lines for him. I was on the red room set during the shooting of the final episode talking with David. (I was giving him a mix pass of an On The Air episode we were working on) I was crouched down and noticed the DP giving me the evil eye having no idea who I was. David told him it was OK and had me crouch down behind the sofa. Next thing I know they start shooting! Glad I stayed out of the shot. Mike nailed the scene and I will never forget Little Jimmy Scott. It was magical, like every other experience I had on Twin Peaks and On The Air. - Rick(io) Woods
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby eyeboogers » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:27 pm

nemo wrote:The image of Major Briggs sitting in the jungle may also refer to the ,other place" too, maybe it is one of the possible ,,areas" or the opposite ,,area" to the one, which is covered by the cream corn. It seems to me, that the boundaries of the ,,other place" weren't even in the series restricted to the ,,other place" we saw.


You are absolutely right Nemo, although this is an area where there were some creative differences between the writers. Frost and Peyton felt that the lodge/other place should transform depending on who was experiencing it, explaining the sequence with Briggs in the jungle and having Cooper be in Philedelphia and at the dentist in the script for the final episode. Lynch felt differently however and felt the lodge had to be more specific and changed it back to the red room when shooting the episode.
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby nemo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:27 am

Thank you for mentioning that. I took a look a bit once at the other version of the script of ep. 29. The specific place looks much better of course, I think. Maybe it was exactly the film, where David Lynch's idea of the expanded ,,other place" was born. Who knows? I imagined this field of the creamed corn and it isn't quite bad at all. It would be something surrealistic, weird and absurd. And this place would be also specific and have no boundaries as the Lodge, I bet. And the idea of the creation is there too(the organic nature of its world, what is soo typical for Lynch ). According to the film, BOB was only 40 years with us and the dwarf is the arm, which doesn't seem to exist too long too, what is very close to the creation idea. Surely it would contradict the Owl Cave map, where the ancient indians depicted the giant and the dwarf, wearing maybe the indian clothes. But this contradiction is already present in the story, which was told. The jungle could be specific too. Maybe some kind of White Lodge expansion opposite to the cream corn field of the Black Lodge. The green area Major was in would correspond to the image of the White Lodge told by Windom Earle. Maybe the Black Lodge could be meant as ,,one chance out between two worlds". As the place ,,they" can act through. Everything is possible.
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:34 am

rickio, what a fantastic story -I'd love to hear more from you on that.

re: Major Briggs in the forest. I can't even imagine David would be conscious of that scene when setting out to do his final. He probably didn't even see it. I don't really know what my point is -but I don't think you're going to be able to get a cohesive path because you have creative interpretation and also the shifting and changing in the floundering section of the second season.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby Jerry Horne » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:54 am

Rickio Woods wrote:Really? I don't remember Mike having someone voice his lines for him. I was on the red room set during the shooting of the final episode talking with David. (I was giving him a mix pass of an On The Air episode we were working on) I was crouched down and noticed the DP giving me the evil eye having no idea who I was. David told him it was OK and had me crouch down behind the sofa. Next thing I know they start shooting! Glad I stayed out of the shot. Mike nailed the scene and I will never forget Little Jimmy Scott. It was magical, like every other experience I had on Twin Peaks and On The Air. - Rick(io) Woods


Rick, I'd love to hear more about your work on TP and On The Air!
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby Brad D » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:32 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:
Rickio Woods wrote:Really? I don't remember Mike having someone voice his lines for him. I was on the red room set during the shooting of the final episode talking with David. (I was giving him a mix pass of an On The Air episode we were working on) I was crouched down and noticed the DP giving me the evil eye having no idea who I was. David told him it was OK and had me crouch down behind the sofa. Next thing I know they start shooting! Glad I stayed out of the shot. Mike nailed the scene and I will never forget Little Jimmy Scott. It was magical, like every other experience I had on Twin Peaks and On The Air. - Rick(io) Woods


Rick, I'd love to hear more about your work on TP and On The Air!


i concur!
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby nemo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:47 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:rickio, what a fantastic story -I'd love to hear more from you on that.

re: Major Briggs in the forest. I can't even imagine David would be conscious of that scene when setting out to do his final. He probably didn't even see it. I don't really know what my point is -but I don't think you're going to be able to get a cohesive path because you have creative interpretation and also the shifting and changing in the floundering section of the second season.


Of course, I don't pretend to anything...It's just my flux of ideas. Some time ago I would agree with you, that David Lynch possibly haven't even seen some scenes. But after reading some interviews of him I started to realise, that he is the man, who really loves, what he does, even after abandoning his work. He has a very good memory. Maybe sometimes he isn't sociable enough, but I would do the same to preserve the secrets.
And he LOVES TWIN PEAKS so much.
As for me actually I always relied on what is going on the screen. The pure idea is a very elusive and fragile thing to stick to for any judgements.
I think, the FATE ITSELF decided, that TWIN PEAKS should begin with Laura and end with Laura too. Despite the ideas Robert Engels told about according to his words they already knew at that time, that it could be the end. And it is very visible at the end of the film. I'm sure, not only for me.
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:10 pm

sorry my post sounded kind of negative -and wrote it really fast. And I probably have to reread this entire thread to wrap my brain around what I'm even trying to say.

I think I meant Major Briggs scene in his memory on the forest throne was most likely linked more towards Frost, Engels and Peyton's notes for the second season White Lodge/Black Lodge. And this would have climaxed in the Black Lodge that was a black and white version of the Great Northern. And the planet of creamed corn might have been part of something that originally from F, E, & P's notes that was more specific -but in Lynch's hands would be more ambiguous and discovered on the spot while planning and filming (if they ever got to that stage of writing the episode where it's revealed). Does that make sense? I'm still kind of rambling.

What I think is most important though no matter what the situation though, or how abstract it gets -it is nothing without character. ie. how it affects the characters in the story. The show will/was always about self discoveries.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby missoulamt » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:17 pm

I don't think depicting Bob etc on a planet of creamed corn would be a problem at all. Lynch would make it work, the same way showing Bob and Mike in the convenience store in FWWM only added to the Peaks vibe. Damn, that scene is a strong one. Overall, the cinematic qualities of FWWM cannot and should not be underestimated.

I notice some of you would rather not see TP continued in any shape or form. I can see what you mean, and although I don't have a problem with the ending of the show (Coop in front of the mirror) it just feels pretty harsh if there will never be a chance to go back to that place again :)
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Re: Twin Peaks evening w/Robert Engels in LA on April 9

Postby blair » Tue May 04, 2010 1:26 pm

TheArm wrote:- He confirmed that the decision not to move forward with the Cooper-Audrey romance was entirely down to Lara Flynn Boyle (who of course was involved with Kyle at the time). While he said that both Sherilyn Fenn and Lara Flynn Boyle were lovely and he was friends with both, that they were on "very different ends of the spectrum." He said that had Cooper and Audrey gotten together, they would have specified on the show that Audrey was actually 19, so as to avoid it being an illegal affair! He also added that they had also discussed doing a "10 years later" jump in time after the Laura Palmer storyline was resolved. (I have a hard time believing they'd jump that far, but I do remember hearing about a "5 years later" jump that was discussed, to get the kids out of high school, which makes more sense.)


I have a question about that, Audrey was supposed to have 19 according Robert Engels, but Audrey was in the same class that Laura and Donna, and they have 17 years old during the two seasons, I don't remember that there are lot of times between the first and the last episodes (sorry for my bad english), so how she could be older that them ?

Somebody know the true about the Lara-Sherylin-Kyle ? sometimes it's simply an artistic decision to give an end between Audrey and Cooper (something I have really understand, she was just a high school girl), sometimes it's more about the behind the scene stuff, somebody have more detail about that (tension between the actors etc...) ? I really would like to know the true about this story, I find that weird that a young actress could have so much power in a TV show, maybe the true is something between these two versions.

Thanks for advance for the answers.

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