Episode 2

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AXX°N N.
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Re: Episode 2

Postby AXX°N N. » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:57 pm

That's a really interesting parallel! The thing with the differences between them is, largely, encoded in real world norms. The crime of the active perpetrator is much more clearly defined in terms of how one should feel towards the perpetrator, and as perpetrator how one should feel toward their own actions. Much less so in the case of the enabler, or the person who could have but did not do anything. In a way, Sarah is a victim herself--but that doesn't completely exonerate her and yet, to say that feels somewhat cruel. What can one expect of someone in that situation? It's like totally blaming the children born of a cult, as if they really had freedom -- which 'humanitarian' excuse is, at the same time, itself rather like tossing them aside as damaged goods. I think when Sarah screams, it's out of frustration. She doesn't know how to pin blame on herself either, so all that's left is to split into two, simultaneously aggressor and victim. That's what I think is going on in the scene with the Turkey Jerky--she has a part of her that is autonomous at the same time that she's losing control, and she has a part of her that is both self-abuser and self-absolver, at least to the point of removing herself from the embarrassing situation. She's actively attacking herself, but without the benefit of clearly, overtly and visually being shown and said to be possessed by anything tangible.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
Hester Prynne
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Re: Episode 2

Postby Hester Prynne » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:36 am

Thanks for bringing up this analogy. I remember watching the end of 17 and remembering Leland shattering the picture as well. I can't help but think that was intentional by L&F and we were supposed to be reminded of that scene for some reason.

Doesn't Leland also smear blood on the picture? It reminds me a little bit of the Woodsmen smearing blood on Doppel Coop's face. Don't know if there's some spiritual significance to this.

The big difference with Sarah's scene is that Laura's picture is indestructible. The glass shatters, but no matter how many times she stabs it, the picture remains intact - maybe just a visual representation that Laura lives and never died. This scene happens after Coop goes back and alters time, so technically, Sarah would have never mourned the murder of her daughter because she never died, but did go missing.

I thought the noises Sarah makes off camera before she attacks the picture was one of the most freakish moments in the series. And who is attacking the picture? Is it Sarah, Judy, or a combination of both?

I posted this in the Season 3 random thread a while back, but the numbers on Carrie's house in reverse are the date of the first self contained Titanium plant. I know it seems far fetched, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it means something being that Titanium is indestructible and is a poor conductor of electricity - the season ends with Carrie/Laura shutting down the electricity at the Palmer house.

Maybe Laura is the only one who can free Sarah from her pain.
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Cappy
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Re: Episode 2

Postby Cappy » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:39 am

Wow, those are really insightful responses about Sarah! After Season 3, is there any more fascinating Twin Peaks character? My initial impression of Sarah's scene in ep 17 was something like this:

Sarah suffers from PTSD, a response to her own denials about Leland's abuse of Laura, her pain at Laura's death, and her shame after Leland being revealed as Laura's killer, as she can't go anywhere in town without feeling everyone around her thinks she is either stupid for not knowing what was going on, or complicit for letting it happen.

She's been feeling all of this hurt for 25 years, so long that these negative emotions are the only thing she understands anymore. And when Cooper tries to take that pain away by saving Laura in the past, Sarah fights back against it, trying to save the only thing that's real to her at this point: her own pain. It's like when you have a friend who is in a destructive relationship with someone with is not good for them. If you try to talk to them and tell them their partner is trouble, they might lash out at you for helping them, and cling even tighter to their partner, no matter how awful that person might be.

When Cooper saved Laura and rescues Sarah from her pain, Sarah pushes back and clings even tighter to that hurt, violently attacking Laura's image, committing a symbolic murder of her daughter in a sense.

Of course, there is also the Spirit World aspect to all this, as Sarah is possessed by the moth frog/Jumping Man/Judy/The Experiment/?

And there's that really interesting passage in Laura's Secret Diary, I don't remember the specific line, by Laura writes about feeling like her mother is jealous of her somehow. I don't think that is a topic the show or FWWM ever really touches, but it's interesting to ponder Sarah envying or resenting her daughter based on what we've seen depicted onscreen.
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Re: Episode 2

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:41 pm

That opening dinner scene reminds me so much of many of the long lingering shots in TR (Roadhouse sweeper, etc.). It plays slightly more conventionally only because it has credits rolling over it. I’m really noticing and loving the use of “one-ers” this time around. I believe the entire scene of Coop entering his hotel room is one take until the insert of Audrey’s note. It’s not showy, but it keeps the audience in the moment and lets the actor deliver a complete performance from start to finish.

There’s something comically ableist (and very much of its time) in everyone just immediately assuming the one-armed man is in some way sinister solely because he’s deformed! “There was a one-armed man.” Immediate response: “Did you question him?” :lol: And then Cooper instructs Hawk to beef up Ronette’s guard. Ohhh, 1990.

Albert pronounces his last name “Rosenfield,” which is how it’s spelled. I’m pretty sure it’s pronounced “Rosenfeld” in most other episodes. Will try to be attentive to whether Albert himself ever says it again.

I know people noted that a sound similar to the “ringing” in the Great Northern in TR appears in the International Pilot when Bob asks if Mike can hear him (it can also be heard briefly in the E2 edit on that shot). I can’t recall if anyone has pointed out that we also hear it when MfAP rubs his hands together, as the bird flies by. (There are actually two moments in the International Pilot edit where MfAP rubs his hands and seemingly makes the sound, but one was cut from the E2 edit.)

Dale’s Diet:

Dale’s digestive system gets a break this episode. We see him drink two cups of coffee from his FBI mug at the rock-throwing excursion (“Damn good coffee...and hot!”), and that’s it. Although there is a beautiful spread of donuts as well, Dale is never seen partaking.
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Re: Episode 2

Postby TwinsPeak » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:51 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:That opening dinner scene reminds me so much of many of the long lingering shots in TR (Roadhouse sweeper, etc.). It plays slightly more conventionally only because it has credits rolling over it. I’m really noticing and loving the use of “one-ers” this time around. I believe the entire scene of Coop entering his hotel room is one take until the insert of Audrey’s note. It’s not showy, but it keeps the audience in the moment and lets the actor deliver a complete performance from start to finish.

There’s something comically ableist (and very much of its time) in everyone just immediately assuming the one-armed man is in some way sinister solely because he’s deformed! “There was a one-armed man.” Immediate response: “Did you question him?” :lol: And then Cooper instructs Hawk to beef up Ronette’s guard. Ohhh, 1990.

Albert pronounces his last name “Rosenfield,” which is how it’s spelled. I’m pretty sure it’s pronounced “Rosenfeld” in most other episodes. Will try to be attentive to whether Albert himself ever says it again.

I know people noted that a sound similar to the “ringing” in the Great Northern in TR appears in the International Pilot when Bob asks if Mike can hear him (it can also be heard briefly in the E2 edit on that shot). I can’t recall if anyone has pointed out that we also hear it when MfAP rubs his hands together, as the bird flies by. (There are actually two moments in the International Pilot edit where MfAP rubs his hands and seemingly makes the sound, but one was cut from the E2 edit.)

Dale’s Diet:

Dale’s digestive system gets a break this episode. We see him drink two cups of coffee at the rock-throwing excursion (“Damn good coffee...and hot!”), and that’s it. Although there is a beautiful spread of donuts as well, Dale is never seen partaking.



Just wanted to say I've been enjoying reading these. Keep them coming. :)
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Episode 2

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:03 am

BTW, who do people think the Red Room “Laura” actually is in this episode? Later media (E29, FWWM, TR, even E16’s repurposing of the E2 scene) seem to present Laura in the Red Room as simply being the real Laura’s spirit. However, it seems pretty clear that Lynch’s initial intention was more complicated than that (the script only credits her as “Beautiful Woman”). I know one interpretation is that she’s a foreshadowing of Maddy due to the “cousin” line, but I think there’s more to it than that. The way MfAP talks about her, it seems like Beautiful Woman is a Lodge spirit. She could be a tulpa, or Laura’s doppelgänger, although she doesn’t behave at all like the feral Laura-doppel we see in E29. She could also be the real Laura, just confused about her identity. Notably, if the scene metaphorically takes place 25 years in the future, even though time is meaningless in the Lodge, it would roughly correspond to the timing of when Cooper fractures the timeline and leads her to forget she is Laura in P17/18. An early hint to Cooper not to proceed on that path, perhaps?

The fact that MfAP indicates that he and Beautiful Woman/Laura come from the same place could also be seen as alluding to Laura’s seemingly supernatural origins (being sent to Earth in an orb 27 years before she is actually born to two people inhabited by Lodge spirits). Obviously none of this was intended at the time, but it’s fascinating to think about in light of the expanded mythology. This is where it all started, and yet that initial Red Room scene still feels so impenetrable all these years later, even after all that’s been built on it!

Another curious detail not often addressed is Dale’s three lapel pins (we’re not gonna talk about that awful tie at all!). A few years ago, Mordeen identified the top pin as a Masonic insignia, and I think he may be right although it’s never seen in enough detail to tell for sure. Interesting choice if true. Masons of course are grouped by Lodge (although the Black Lodge terminology was WAY off in the future at this point), and the Masons of course figure prominently into Mark’s vast conspiracy web in TSHoTP, although the initial Red Room scene was solely Lynch, interestingly... There’s never any other indication that Dale is a Freemason.

The second pin is two flames, definitely appropriate and intended.

The third I believe Mordeen identified as a 25-year military service pin. Again, I’m not sure...it’s definitely a red bar, but it’s impossible to make out any more detail on my Blu Ray. The 25 years could certainly be a cheeky allusion to the time-jump, but again, there is no indication anywhere that Dale ever served in the military.
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AXX°N N.
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Re: Episode 2

Postby AXX°N N. » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:45 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:BTW, who do people think the Red Room “Laura” actually is in this episode? Later media (E29, FWWM, TR, even E16’s repurposing of the E2 scene) seem to present Laura in the Red Room as simply being the real Laura’s spirit. However, it seems pretty clear that Lynch’s initial intention was more complicated than that (the script only credits her as “Beautiful Woman”). I know one interpretation is that she’s a foreshadowing of Maddy due to the “cousin” line, but I think there’s more to it than that. The way MfAP talks about her, it seems like Beautiful Woman is a Lodge spirit. She could be a tulpa, or Laura’s doppelgänger, although she doesn’t behave at all like the feral Laura-doppel we see in E29. She could also be the real Laura, just confused about her identity. Notably, if the scene metaphorically takes place 25 years in the future, even though time is meaningless in the Lodge, it would roughly correspond to the timing of when Cooper fractures the timeline and leads her to forget she is Laura in P17/18. An early hint to Cooper not to proceed on that path, perhaps?

The fact that MfAP indicates that he and Beautiful Woman/Laura come from the same place could also be seen as alluding to Laura’s seemingly supernatural origins (being sent to Earth in an orb 27 years before she is actually born to two people inhabited by Lodge spirits). Obviously none of this was intended at the time, but it’s fascinating to think about in light of the expanded mythology. This is where it all started, and yet that initial Red Room scene still feels so impenetrable all these years later, even after all that’s been built on it!

This is an instance of something I felt happened a bunch in S3, where so much of the I guess "sanctified" interpretations of things were flouted in favor (unsurprisingly) of Lynch's original meanings, there all along but not yet reaffirmed. What you talk about is very present in the P2 red room scenes, where Coop asks Laura who she is, and her emotions and responses are impenetrable but also, in a way, foreshadowing that later she is herself but not herself, in the form of Carrie. And just like with Maddy, there's the theory that in P2, owing especially to the hair, this is Carrie, either before being sent out, or after returning, what with the potential for time-fluidity.

I always got the impression in Ep 2 that the Laura there is some kind of Ur-Laura, or ascended Laura, or Platonic Ideal of Laura. She has this almost cosmic vibe to her, like she's some kind of divine presence, distant and maybe even somewhat amused by the still mortally-bound Coop. Interestingly, Coop's presence in FWWM is like an inversion of this, where he seems like a guardian angel to a Laura just having left the mortal coil, reacting (cathartically?) to it being over, and perhaps even ushering her into her own divine status he would (in our world) meet an inversion of very soon.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Episode 2

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:28 pm

AXX°N N. wrote:This is an instance of something I felt happened a bunch in S3, where so much of the I guess "sanctified" interpretations of things were flouted in favor (unsurprisingly) of Lynch's original meanings, there all along but not yet reaffirmed.


It’s crazy to rewatch this early stretch of the show and realize that, from the Pilot through Episode 2, we’re experiencing pure unadulterated L/F: the same formula that gave us TR (obviously Duwayne Dunham directed E1, but other than that it’s all L/F scripts and Lynch direction, just like TR).

Sarah’s line, “What is going on this house?” also feels like it takes on a lot more significance in light of TR. In the original show, the answer ended up being pretty straightforward: Leland is inhabited by Bob. The new revelations in Between Two Worlds, P8, P12 and P18 make it seem much more complicated, like there may actually be something inhabiting not only Sarah but the house itself.

Another thought I forgot to post earlier: Do we think the “devilish one” Mike mentions could be Judy? Or is it someone/something we still haven’t gotten any inkling of yet?
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Re: Episode 2

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:51 am

It’s fun to revisit Donna and Audrey’s interaction in this episode and Episode 4, realizing that they may well be half sisters.

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