Episode 13

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djerdap
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Re: Episode 13

Postby djerdap » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:24 pm

The Ben/Josie confrontation is the only time I find Chen to be really convincing in the role of somebody who is supposed to be this duplicitious femme fatale.

Still makes me wonder how Isabella Rossellini would fare with this role.
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David Locke
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Re: Episode 13

Postby David Locke » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:11 am

Although Joan Chen seems to struggle with the material, and it's an imperfect performance, I do think she gives Josie that youthful/innocent aspect which is essential and which I wonder if Isabella would've been as good at projecting? Maybe it'd have been fine though. Isabella could've been TOO good in this, if anything, to the point of distraction. And of course one of the reasons why Chen isn't quite right as Josie is because she can't really deliver the darker aspects, the full femme fatale feeling.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Episode 13

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:28 am

I've always kinda wondered what the "temperature in the room" was/ is on Chen. As you said, she's good in the funny/innocent scenes (especially with Pete), but considering that she receives special crediting along with Laurie, and was apparently a huge "get" for the show at the time, she really doesn't give a terribly memorable performance IMO. (Of course, having to act in a language that's not her native tongue may have made it tougher on her.) i do really love her standoff with Ben in this episode though. I think she matches Beymer's smug scheming tone, and I actually buy her coming out the winner.

Oh! One thing I just thought of: LLG starting a scene on a close-up of of Lynch's ear HAS to be a Blue Velvet nod; right?
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Jonah
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Re: Episode 13

Postby Jonah » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:46 am

I started this rewatch with the Pilot, followed by Episode 1 & 2 on the first night. Then I gulped the rest of Season 1 and the first half of Episode 8 of Season 2 the next night. I took a break then, diving back into 8 and going all the way to 12. I took a break and got back to my rewatch with Episode 13 and went through to 18.

I kept meaning to write up my thoughts after each episode, but I get carried away watching them so am playing catch up now (currently reached 19 and said I'd go back and type up some thoughts on the previous episodes before I continue - maybe I'm putting off watching 19 because it's so weak). My write-ups would probably be stronger if I had written them immediately after each episode, so I'm just flicking back through them quickly to remind myself, then making some notes.

-

Great scene with Audrey and Cooper in the Bookhouse!

And I love how Audrey speaks to Ben, really highlighting how her experience has begun to change and mature her as a character. Fenn plays this beautifully.

I also really like the scene with James and Donna after Maddy drives away.

The goodbye scene with Maddy and James here is great. I love both of them in this scene. The setting is beautiful too, though a bit too sunny as is the case for all the California scenes filling in for the northwest. I guess we're just to assume Laura's death precipitated a bizarre Indian Summer in the middle of winter, maybe bringing out the sun to shine on all the corruption in the town!

Lee is very powerful as Maddy in this sequence. You get a real sense of Maddy here and in Episode 14. Too bad she wasn't given more to do and kept around longer and given more characterisation.

I like Josie standing up to Ben - and the key scene between the two of them is a lot of fun!

Given Cole and Shelly kiss later in this season - and that Shelly is credited as being the only person Cole doesn't need his hearing aid to hear - it's interesting how this is almost foreshadowed in this episode. We cut from Shelly laughing at Leo's birthday party to a direct close-up of Cole's earpiece.

Even more fun than that is Cooper's instant reaction to him when he walks into the Sheriff's Station.

It's great to see Cole. David Lynch plays the part great. And I love the reference to the small Mexican chihuahua (which of course we get a reference to in the new series!)

The Ben/Leland scene is great. And I like how Leland is so pre-meditated that he takes the hair from the fox. Looks like Bob isn't always the one in control. And at this stage, Leland doesn't even know Maddy's leaving. So why is he taking the hair? This sequence needs to be examined to show Leland (and/or maybe Bob) is already planning something.....

I think Ontkean does a great job in the scene where Harry tells Josie he loves her. You really feel for him here.

The Fumio/Ben scene is interesting. And Leland singing! (Nice throwback to when Leland was dancing in the first season and Ben got Catherine to intervene. Nice clue for viewers that Fumio is Catherine.)

And the scene with Fumio and Pete at the bar is priceless.

One of the best scenes is Mike in the Sheriff's Station. I don't think we've ever seen the one-armed man give such a sinister performance as Mike as we do here. I'd love to see something like this in the new series. It really highlights just how creepy Mike is.

Lot of great backstory on Bob and Mike here.

And that final shot of the Great Northern is eerie and brilliant. A great closing episode.

All in all I think this is a very powerful episode and a great lead-in into what will be one of the very best episodes of the entire series, Episode 14.
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bowisneski
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Re: Episode 13

Postby bowisneski » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:23 pm

Re-reading some of The Essential Wrapped in Plastic and I totally forgot about this and found it interesting with who/what Sarah may be/may be housing once we get to The Return

Grace Zabriskie: I had talked to Harley [Peyton], and we had a long conversation in which I was asking for more psychic background for Sarah. I was asking for two aunts who had looked preternaturally alike, just as the cousins did. The aunts would have been Sarah Palmer and her sister. I was asking for untold generations of, well, basically witches. I was asking for there to be generation-after-generation of women who, during one period or several periods of our history, would have been called witches, because of their knowledge and their powers. Also, in terms of backstory, this family history had been forgotten—or that it had, in fact, been denied out of shame, for a number of generations. So Sarah is in complete denial of this background, what little she’s ever heard of it. Whereas her sister, Maddy’s mother, wants it.

Sarah and Maddy are not closer because Sarah has not encouraged it. Sarah is afraid of what would happen if they get together. The line about the aunt came out of that, but then it didn’t go any further. You can imagine how excited I was when they did script that.

I was so excited when they seemed to be developing the story. Harley seemed interested in it and was buying it and wanted to go there. It seems to me there might have been three little snippets of things that hinted at the story. That always struck me as an interesting way to proceed with the character once Laura’s killer was known.


While it's something that could very well have been goofy had it been pursued in Season 2, it's interesting seeing the things that eventually came back around in some incarnation.
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dreamshake
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Re: Episode 13

Postby dreamshake » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:32 pm

bowisneski wrote:Re-reading some of The Essential Wrapped in Plastic and I totally forgot about this and found it interesting with who/what Sarah may be/may be housing once we get to The Return

Grace Zabriskie: I had talked to Harley [Peyton], and we had a long conversation in which I was asking for more psychic background for Sarah. I was asking for two aunts who had looked preternaturally alike, just as the cousins did. The aunts would have been Sarah Palmer and her sister. I was asking for untold generations of, well, basically witches. I was asking for there to be generation-after-generation of women who, during one period or several periods of our history, would have been called witches, because of their knowledge and their powers. Also, in terms of backstory, this family history had been forgotten—or that it had, in fact, been denied out of shame, for a number of generations. So Sarah is in complete denial of this background, what little she’s ever heard of it. Whereas her sister, Maddy’s mother, wants it.

Sarah and Maddy are not closer because Sarah has not encouraged it. Sarah is afraid of what would happen if they get together. The line about the aunt came out of that, but then it didn’t go any further. You can imagine how excited I was when they did script that.

I was so excited when they seemed to be developing the story. Harley seemed interested in it and was buying it and wanted to go there. It seems to me there might have been three little snippets of things that hinted at the story. That always struck me as an interesting way to proceed with the character once Laura’s killer was known.


While it's something that could very well have been goofy had it been pursued in Season 2, it's interesting seeing the things that eventually came back around in some incarnation.


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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Episode 13

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:23 pm

Reiterating my and others’ thoughts from earlier in this thread, this really is a terrific episode. All the actors really bring their A games, and definitely a shout-out to Fenn in particular.

Throughout this rewatch, one of the things I’ve been keeping an eye out for is foreshadowing of the character flaw/white knight syndrome that brings about Cooper’s apparent failure in P17/P18. This episode has a wonderful little monologue where he stands up and says, in harshly self-recriminating fashion, “Harry, this isn't the first time my actions have brought suffering to someone I care about, in the name of doing what I had to do. Dammit. I should have known better.” The line in the script is slightly harder on Cooper: he says, “doing what I thought I had to do”—emphasis mine. The line in the episode arguably is kinder to Coop because he seems to be saying in some sense his actions were inevitable and necessary despite the fallout, whereas the scripted line implies that he was misguided in his belief. I don’t know why the line was changed, but I do think the spiteful way Kyle says “what I had to do” still carries the subtext of the scripted line. Harry sweetly absolves him, which in retrospect is kind of unfortunate. If Cooper had thought about the consequences of his actions a bit more, maybe he would have thought twice before committing the ultimate act of hubris years later.

We can all agree that Cappy is Harry’s illegitimate son, right? I wish we’d seen a scene where Dale assumes everyone knows this, but then realizes all parties involved are totally oblivious and decides to leave it alone (like that running Simpsons joke where Homer keeps meeting long-lost brothers of Dr. Hibbert and misses the super obvious clues).

Dale’s Diet
— In Harry’s office, Harry pours Dale a late-night cup of coffee in his FBI mug (so much for watching his after-dinner coffee consumption!)
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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AXX°N N.
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Re: Episode 13

Postby AXX°N N. » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:30 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:“Harry, this isn't the first time my actions have brought suffering to someone I care about, in the name of doing what I had to do. Dammit. I should have known better.”

It could even be read as an inchoate disapproval of official forms of conduct. Cooper is a character married to his work and his role, and when he returns as we knew him in TR, he goes as far as to identify himself as the bureau itself. However steeped in circumstance his initial plunge into the Lodge, what with Earl's interruption, Coop's later mystic shenanigans leave behind reality, and so leave behind the sanctified reality of what once was "what he had to do," ie, the rules of the profane world and the procedures of the FBI. Could this indicate an arc for him, where he eventually sees himself as rebellious against this sense of duty, choosing a different path? If so, it's interesting that stepping back into the Lodge merely led to the same outcome--an extension of the cycle of harmed women that began with Caroline. FBI or magic, Coop wields irresponsibly, and shows signs all along, like with the Audrey kerfuffle.

It's interesting, in a similar vein, to wonder about how Briggs sees his career. How does someone who seemingly ascends reevaluate their job title? Did he view his descent into the spirit world as a mere extension of his benevolent sense of justice as a government man? The tough decision making of The Fireman could be seen to resemble in a small way the kinds of decisions politicians face, where they have to measure evils and sometimes go with the lesser evil--an act that can be seen and felt as the caprice of an all-powerful entity. He sends a Laura to suffer, but weighed against everyone else... In that sense, I find Brigg's occupency of the Fireman's screening room loaded with room to tease out parallels.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Episode 13

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:47 pm

Interesting thoughts! I noted briefly in my Episode 9 comments that both Dale and Garland seem to have somewhat mixed feelings about some of their duties, particularly as they relate to keeping secrets. Of course, for both, their official duties (respectively in Blue Rose and the Listening Post) to some extent already intersected with the supernatural realm where they both end up, so that probably helped some with the transition! It does seem like they might have been selected by the spirit realm because their regimented no-bullshit personalities and dedication to higher causes made them good fits.

It's worth noting, though, that in the Episode 13 scene, when Dale refers to "what [he] had to do," he's actually talking about what he had to do as a man--which, he notes, was actually a dereliction of his official duty. He makes it a point of saying that he violated his official oaths by crossing the border and leaving his realm of jurisdiction twice (the first time to capture Jacques, leading Jean to take Audrey...the second time to rescue Audrey). So it wasn't following FBI directives, but actually flouting them, that leads to his feelings of guilt in that instance.

I forgot to mention, but Mike's line that only "the gifted and the damned" can see Bob's true face is especially interesting now. He looks at Cooper when he refers to the gifted, then looks directly to camera when saying "the damned"...but is it possible that both terms refer directly to Cooper? I don't know if he's damned, but he's not doing too well by the end of Part 18.

Also forgot to mention! For those tracking the proper pronunciation of Albert’s surname, Cole pronounces it “Rosenfield” in the episode (i.e., the way it’s spelled in the scripts and the way Albert himself says it in E2). Thus far, Lucy seems to have just mispronounced it in E1. For some reason I seem to recall hearing a lot more “Rosenfeld”s throughout the series. Am I just misremembering, or do they come later?

Also: It's a little poignant when Gordon expresses that Albert is concerned Cooper is getting in over his head, and Gordon says he feels responsibility. Given all that we know now, it's safe to say Albert and Gordon are talking about more than just Cooper getting shot, and their concerns prove very much justified given how things end up.

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