Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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LateReg
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:15 pm

I know this has nothing to do with the plot, per se, but metaphorically, or whatever, Mr. C is Cooper's id, or whatever, so of course he wants to stay as far away from Cooper and exist on his own and run rampant. Getting too close to Cooper would be risking unwanted mediation or suppression (/death).
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:39 pm

Regarding Naido/Diane in the Purple Room, I've always been confused as to what she was trying to get Cooper to do. She keeps him from exiting through 15, where he presumably would have switched places with DoppelCoop in the car, and DoppelCoop would have been sent back to the Red Room. Why wouldn't she want this to happen - is it because if he switched with him, he would be held accountable for everything that DoppelCoop did, and no one would believe him? When she flips the electricity on top of the space box, did she want him to follow her falling into space? Did she know she would exit at Jack Rabbit's Palace and wanted Cooper to do the same where they would be close to the TP Sheriff's department and where he would be safe, or did she mean for him to go through gateway 3 where he would switch places with Dougie? Why would she want Cooper to do that? Did she even know about "3?" What is she trying to accomplish by turning the electricity on and why doesn't she want Cooper to switch places with his doppelgänger/tulpa?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:46 am

So BOB was afraid of Cooper? I don't know...

The whole story of Lois Duffy murdering her Tulpa (or was it vice versa?) foreshadowed this ultimate end sequence between BOB and Cooper which never happened. To me, this is one of the major signs that Season 3 was not the conclusion of the series. Why mention that encounter, with all of that amazing foreshadowing, only to drop it?

Yes, Mr. C is gone. He's done, burning in a chair in the Lodge. But we have no real proof that BOB was truly defeated, or that he couldn't return in some other form. The notion that some random British guy with a plastic green glove could eliminate the evil of BOB with a punch seems so ludicrous, which is probably why that entire fight sequence with Freddie in Part 17 feels so lame. I think BOB was stopped, for that moment. But annihilated? No.

I hope Season 4 begins with an owl flying over the Twin Peaks Sheriff Station, magnetically gathering the remnants of BOB as it passes.

LateReg wrote:I know this has nothing to do with the plot, per se, but metaphorically, or whatever, Mr. C is Cooper's id, or whatever, so of course he wants to stay as far away from Cooper and exist on his own and run rampant. Getting too close to Cooper would be risking unwanted mediation or suppression (/death).
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:09 am

I'll just copy/post my reply from the other thread since it's in both:

I think BOB is done (and I loved Freddie and that ending for him - I found it very satisfying that this sweet naif took him apart). But I've been wrong before.

I don't think it was ever between Cooper and BOB or ever will be. BOB was Laura's nemesis and Laura beat him in FWWM. BOB got dispatched for good(?) by the forces of the White Lodge in Season 3. The true enemy is Judy, and more importantly, man's own weakness - Cooper's own pride. If he'd left well enough alone and not resurrected his 25-year-old manchild's scheme to take "two birds with one stone" and save Laura, everything could've come to a better end.

To be clear, I don't believe it was a purely personal mission. I think Cooper also intended to use Laura to defeat Judy, as he, Briggs and Cole had discussed - but I don't believe he needed to rewrite history to do that. Saving Laura was personal - he did it because he wanted to be the ultimate hero and rewrite his own past with Caroline. Two birds, one stone. Man's weakness, man's overreach. Same as Episode 29.

(I also think the Lois Duffy story is largely there to foreshadow the Diane reveal.)
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Xavi
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:43 am

Mr C was "contaminated" with BOB, so not all of his characteristics can be attributed to Cooper. And BOB was only an egg, just one egg of many, which means that defeating "him" would not terminate "evil," not in a million years.

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” ~ Nietzsche


Did Dale Cooper become that monster when he tried to defeat "death"?
LateReg
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:09 am

madeleineferguson wrote:So BOB was afraid of Cooper? I don't know...

LateReg wrote:I know this has nothing to do with the plot, per se, but metaphorically, or whatever, Mr. C is Cooper's id, or whatever, so of course he wants to stay as far away from Cooper and exist on his own and run rampant. Getting too close to Cooper would be risking unwanted mediation or suppression (/death).


If your quote is in response to mine, then I should clarify that I never said anything about Bob. I was talking about Mr. C as a metaphorical piece of Cooper's psyche. Bob has nothing to do with what I was saying, which is that Mr. C would not want to risk an encounter with Cooper, because to risk that would be to risk being suppressed whereas he is now free to roam. Cooper usually supresses his dark side to the point that he doesn't even acknowledge it. Acknowledging that dark side is part of what his arc is all about. Once again, this is all metaphorical based on the idea of the different Coopers being part of Cooper's psyche/identity. And it has nothing to do with Bob.

But I agree with you that Bob wasn't truly defeated as I don't think true evil can be defeated (and Bob resides within man, a representation of their evil). However, if the series were to go on, we may never see Bob again if only because Silva is dead and Judy is the larger evil, perhaps.
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Saturn's child
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:12 am

Mr. Strawberry wrote:I can understand Mr. C outsourcing low level assassinations in order to free himself up for more important stuff, but eliminating Cooper would be absolute top priority, wouldn't it? The fact that Mr. C stays well away from him could imply that he is worried about the outcome of the meeting.


One of the ways I interpret this is that Cooper & his doppelganger cannot meet, it's like matter & anti-matter. I see it as significant that Cooper/DougieCoop never enters Mr C's presence until he's dead. This also kind of forces us to assume that the various iterations of Cooper are the same individual, since one of them never meets another.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:03 am

Saturn's child wrote:
Mr. Strawberry wrote:I can understand Mr. C outsourcing low level assassinations in order to free himself up for more important stuff, but eliminating Cooper would be absolute top priority, wouldn't it? The fact that Mr. C stays well away from him could imply that he is worried about the outcome of the meeting.


One of the ways I interpret this is that Cooper & his doppelganger cannot meet, it's like matter & anti-matter. I see it as significant that Cooper/DougieCoop never enters Mr C's presence until he's dead. This also kind of forces us to assume that the various iterations of Cooper are the same individual, since one of them never meets another.

Yeah, I'm on board with that. Back in the day when I saw the final scene with Cooper smashing his face into the mirror, I was convinced that it was actually Dale corrupted by BOB, not some "evil clone" or what have you. I've basically stayed with that and feel that had Cooper gone through the socket without the switch being thrown, that he would not have emerged into the reality where there is a Dale with BOB, but rather into one where Dale Cooper had up and vanished from Twin Peaks 25 years earlier, just as Chester Desmond had from Deer Meadow. It makes sense to my mind, because how can Dale be in The Red Room but also out in the world unless there are multiple realities running simultaneously? It's like halves or facets of a whole, or as you put it, versions of a self.
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