Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Xavi
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:38 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Xavi wrote:I'm not much of a believer myself, I prefer suffixing at least about seven question marks behind each statement or "person." But I do remember that Lynch saw a passage in the bible that brought him to an idea for the ending of Eraserhead, of which he said that it was his most spiritual movie.


At one point in the Lynch 2 documentary, he also mentions reading the Bible hoping to find similar inspiration for IE, and retells the “Legion” story. But of course, DKL is much more interested in Buddhism than Christianity by and large, which is why I wondered about Mark. He strikes me as an atheist, but I might be projecting.


Excuse me, but I do not recall Lynch ever talked about "reading the bible hoping to find similar inspiration for IE." Could you be so kind to give me a time mark in that Lynch 2 documentary so I can refresh my memory?
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:42 am

Xavi wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Xavi wrote:I'm not much of a believer myself, I prefer suffixing at least about seven question marks behind each statement or "person." But I do remember that Lynch saw a passage in the bible that brought him to an idea for the ending of Eraserhead, of which he said that it was his most spiritual movie.


At one point in the Lynch 2 documentary, he also mentions reading the Bible hoping to find similar inspiration for IE, and retells the “Legion” story. But of course, DKL is much more interested in Buddhism than Christianity by and large, which is why I wondered about Mark. He strikes me as an atheist, but I might be projecting.


Excuse me, but I do not recall Lynch ever talked about "reading the bible hoping to find similar inspiration for IE." Could you be so kind to give me a time mark in that Lynch 2 documentary so I can refresh my memory?


Sorry, I misremembered — it’s actually in the Lynch 1 documentary (the feature-length one that was cut from the same footage as Lynch 2, but is sold as its own standalone DVD). Don’t have an exact timestamp offhand, but he’s sitting at his desk talking to the film crew (the same desk where he used to do his weather reports for his website).
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Xavi
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:09 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Sorry, I misremembered — it’s actually in the Lynch 1 documentary (the feature-length one that was cut from the same footage as Lynch 2, but is sold as its own standalone DVD). Don’t have an exact timestamp offhand, but he’s sitting at his desk talking to the film crew (the same desk where he used to do his weather reports for his website).


Albert said something about "“the absurd forces of the strange mystery of existence.” Maybe the human mind and specifically its capacity to store words and events is vulnerable for such forces? Anyway, my memory seemed not to have stored any fragment from Lynch One nor from Lynch Two, that contains Lynch referring to the bible as a source of inspiration for IE.
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:43 am

Xavi wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Sorry, I misremembered — it’s actually in the Lynch 1 documentary (the feature-length one that was cut from the same footage as Lynch 2, but is sold as its own standalone DVD). Don’t have an exact timestamp offhand, but he’s sitting at his desk talking to the film crew (the same desk where he used to do his weather reports for his website).


Albert said something about "“the absurd forces of the strange mystery of existence.” Maybe the human mind and specifically its capacity to store words and events is vulnerable for such forces? Anyway, my memory seemed not to have stored any fragment from Lynch One nor from Lynch Two, that contains Lynch referring to the bible as a source of inspiration for IE.


Technically, he never says it actually inspired anything in the final film. Just that he was reading the Bible searching for inspiration, and clearly liked that story (as he enthusiastically retells it).
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:57 am

Btw, the Chromatics song brought to mind the iconic Laura homecoming photo, and the fact that her friends and boyfriends have moved on, as we do over time: “And now you’re just a stranger’s dream / I took your picture from the frame.”
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby p-air » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:41 am

A couple of things rewatching Part 2 - first, I never noticed before how the scene of Hawk in the woods segues into the long sequence in the Red Room. He says "something's supposed to go down here tonight" and Margaret responds "the stars turn and a time presents itself". Hawk glimpses the red curtains and next we are in the Red Room witnessing what "goes down", at this time which has presented itself. In fact it's almost as though Hawk himself is witnessing it! Most people probably followed this the first time around, I now view it differently from how I did before as Hawk's scene always seemed somewhat non-sequitur.

Secondly, the Arm's line that the doppelgänger must come in before Cooper can go out, I never really noticed how this plays out. The doppelgänger does return at the start of Part 18, Cooper then retreads the steps of Part 2, this time is able to penetrate the red curtains (the ones he was unable to before) and emerges whole.
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Snailhead » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:15 pm

Upon reflection, I have some thoughts about Part 1 and 2, with regards to Judy and Sarah.

Does anyone else think that the scene with Sarah watching the violent nature program is the moment when she gets possessed by Judy ? Right before it cuts to the Roadhouse, she raises her eyes very suddenly, as though something just happened to her.
Maybe when Judy appears in the box and kills the lovers, that's when she was set free into the world, and she is immediately drawn to the Palmer house?
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:30 pm

Snailhead wrote:Upon reflection, I have some thoughts about Part 1 and 2, with regards to Judy and Sarah.

Does anyone else think that the scene with Sarah watching the violent nature program is the moment when she gets possessed by Judy ? Right before it cuts to the Roadhouse, she raises her eyes very suddenly, as though something just happened to her.
Maybe when Judy appears in the box and kills the lovers, that's when she was set free into the world, and she is immediately drawn to the Palmer house?

I've heard that theory before but since Sarah is generally considered to be the frog moth girl, it seems likely Sarah was possessed by Judy since adolescence.
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:31 pm

Is Otis the only person in season 3 to call the doppelganger "Mr. C"? I'm trying to think who else does - I think Ray calls him Cooper and Chantal calls him boss. It would be kind of wild if what may have became the most popular moniker for this character is only ever said once, by such a minor character (but early enough to make a big impression).
Last edited by LostInTheMovies on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:36 pm

I think so, yes.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:57 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:Is Otis the only person is season 3 to call the doppelganger "Mr. C"? I'm trying to think who else does - I think Ray calls him Cooper and Chantal calls him boss. It would be kind of wild if what may have became the most popular moniker for this character is only ever said once, by such a minor character (but early enough to make a big impression).


Kyle said at Comic Con that this is his preferred monicker for the character, based on that scene, which was one of his favorites. I can’t now recall if the nickname had already taken hold online by the time the Comic Con panel was held (circa the airing of Part 11), or if perhaps Kyle’s preference may have swayed the conversation?

FWIW, L/F seem to favor “Cooper’s Double.”
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Snailhead » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:24 pm

mtwentz wrote:
Snailhead wrote:Upon reflection, I have some thoughts about Part 1 and 2, with regards to Judy and Sarah.

Does anyone else think that the scene with Sarah watching the violent nature program is the moment when she gets possessed by Judy ? Right before it cuts to the Roadhouse, she raises her eyes very suddenly, as though something just happened to her.
Maybe when Judy appears in the box and kills the lovers, that's when she was set free into the world, and she is immediately drawn to the Palmer house?

I've heard that theory before but since Sarah is generally considered to be the frog moth girl, it seems likely Sarah was possessed by Judy since adolescence.


My interpretation is the following: Sarah was definitely the frog moth girl, as essentially confirmed by Mark's new book. However, I don't think the frog moth was Judy, but rather a different, unnamed spirit. That spirit lived in Sarah her whole life, hence why she had the visions in FWWM and the original series. I believe that this mysterious thing inside Sarah, along with her substance abuse and grief, had primed her for the possession by Judy which then takes place early on in The Return.

Just a thought, though.
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mtwentz
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:52 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:Is Otis the only person is season 3 to call the doppelganger "Mr. C"? I'm trying to think who else does - I think Ray calls him Cooper and Chantal calls him boss. It would be kind of wild if what may have became the most popular moniker for this character is only ever said once, by such a minor character (but early enough to make a big impression).


Kyle said at Comic Con that this is his preferred monicker for the character, based on that scene, which was one of his favorites. I can’t now recall if the nickname had already taken hold online by the time the Comic Con panel was held (circa the airing of Part 11), or if perhaps Kyle’s preference may have swayed the conversation?

FWIW, L/F seem to favor “Cooper’s Double.”


My personal favorite was from my 12 year old daughter. She called him "the Bad Dougie" :-)
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
Poiuyt
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Poiuyt » Tue May 01, 2018 6:37 am

so i watched the premiere again right after finishing the season... just a couple quick, random thoughts (spoilers!):

cooper and phyllis were seeing each other? i never put two and two together until hastings mentioned that there was "maybe somebody else" or something along those lines, in addition to phyllis' affair with george.

Spoiler:
duncan is a tulpa... jeez, it's almost like cooper went around populating the world with tulpas in preparation for his "escape plan"...

POSSIBLE PLOT HOLE: shouldn't the FBI have found footage of cooper appearing in the glass box?? alongside the footage of the experiment and cooper/weird monk guy?


overall: this story is much more complex than i gave it credit for on the first watch. what an enormous puzzle.
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mtwentz
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Tue May 01, 2018 9:15 am

Poiuyt wrote:so i watched the premiere again right after finishing the season... just a couple quick, random thoughts (spoilers!):

cooper and phyllis were seeing each other? i never put two and two together until hastings mentioned that there was "maybe somebody else" or something along those lines, in addition to phyllis' affair with george.

Spoiler:
duncan is a tulpa... jeez, it's almost like cooper went around populating the world with tulpas in preparation for his "escape plan"...

POSSIBLE PLOT HOLE: shouldn't the FBI have found footage of cooper appearing in the glass box?? alongside the footage of the experiment and cooper/weird monk guy?


overall: this story is much more complex than i gave it credit for on the first watch. what an enormous puzzle.


I never remember it being revealed Duncan is a tulpa. Where did you get that?
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