Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:49 am

It seems to me like Belushi is just goofing around. If it did screen at the White House, I doubt the President got past the first five minutes. Doesn’t strike me as his cup of tea.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby sylvia_north » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:41 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:It seems to me like Belushi is just goofing around. If it did screen at the White House, I doubt the President got past the first five minutes. Doesn’t strike me as his cup of tea.


Then it was a scripted joke, because the cardboard cutout personalities (don’t know their names) prompt it: “Eight executives saw it and then there was..” then Belushi, Kimmy and Dana- in unison- continue, and Kyle gives the punchline. It’s the plausibility of the joke that makes it funny. 45 is contemporary in celebrity culture to WKLP and is all about his Hollywood juice, anyone alive then would be hard as a rock to get in on yuge secrets whether they cared or not.

Honestly, I took it literally when I saw it, even talked about it with someone who chats with Kimmy from time to time who took it literally. *shrug* I think I even told my parents. In a world of possibilities... Trump is a character in SHOTP :lol: and I bet he loves it, too.

New Yorker article on Trump and Lynch’s “intersection in the cultural imagination” from last week https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultu ... avid-lynch
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:29 pm

Donald Trump is a man who his sons said liked to fast forward through the 'slow parts' of Die Hard. I have absolutely zero doubt he's never seen a frame of Twin Peaks.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:35 pm

Just watched the clip again in a quieter environment than earlier. It’s very clearly a dual joke about the secrecy of the shoot and Trump’s loose-lipped nature. The joke is that the strictly enforced secrecy DKL fostered on TP is enough to keep even Trump mum.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby bosguy1981 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:53 am

It was definitely a then-timely joke about President Trump's loose lips. They gave that interview the day of breaking news that Donald Trump revealed highly-classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador when they were visiting the White House.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby sylvia_north » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:11 am

Room to Dream was a fast read (audible listen) that I truly enjoyed. Every chapter opened a memory scrapbook of my own life, and I really liked the structure. And it touched on some of the critical things from this thread I think it’s worth noting.

* Al Strobel talks about Return wasn’t trying to entertain anyone, that he was just ‘going deep into his art’ instead of playing with the conventions of TV. It was ‘serious’ and the play was absent.

* The success of MD was due in large part of the forced constraints. Success thrives in adversity, right?

* It is stressed that without DL, we all know how bad TP can get, but at the same time TP at its best was a collaborative effort.

These open admissions are refreshing and appreciated. Now onto the less comforting admissions:
SKIP to the last two paragraphs if you don’t want to hear woman complainin’ about woman things that you personally feel left out of :

* The frankness of DL’s callousness toward women, and his fascination with mystery/secrets in his personal life (which I’ve heard from others) leading to chronic infidelity that is so accepted in Hollywood, even Mary Fisk tried to push past her discomfort into an open marriage- are possibly an admission of remorse, or at least an admission of fault. Lynch himself mentions ‘sowing corn’ when you intent to reap wheat immediately after the story about his high school sweetheart Judy who he discovered during FWWM had killed herself - it isn’t dwelt upon, and the context of the statement isn’t confirmed, but I believe personally it indicates he’s aware of his selfishness. In the BTS of TR, Lynch jokes that he ‘keeps it separate,’ hiding the French girl from Tammy. Gordon’s lack of empathy, denying Tammy informed consent, is funny to him, and it’s just a joke but also a reflection of his personal values- call it what you want, “old school,” I’m too old to laugh along.

* Enough has been written elsewhere online about directors doing to horrible things to female actresses to get an authentic performance, even though male actors aren’t expected to truly break bones or suffer flesh wounds, so I won’t repeat them here, but what Isabella did out of trust and love- doing the nude scene unexpectedly on a totally open set with local spectators and having to show her vulva to Dennis Hopper instead of it being blocked, and her feelings about Lynch’s laughter during the rape scene, (“I still don’t know why...”) and detailing the awful and cold way he dumped her .. We already knew about this things, and that she thought he was loyal when they were long distance but was mistaken and how deeply this hurt her. It doesn’t make them less sad.

I liked, however, hearing that Emily complements his lifestyle well, is supportive while demanding little.



Naomi, a survivor, continuously has said DL is responsible for her having an acting career at all when no doors opened to her, talking about the brutality of shooting the masturbation scene- I don’t think I’ll be able to watch that again. The final word on it was, I guess, he got what he wanted out of it. The end justified the means. Justification, minimization- all normal for survivors, who are also easy targets for revictimization- they blame themselves, their boundaries are compromised, they put trust in inappropriate often opportunistic people and find themselves permissive of revictimization. It was icky to hear described, the endless takes, the trauma .

Ditto with the promise to Laura Harring that her nude out-of-shower scene would be shot in the dark and every take was.. until the last one, (SURPRISE!) Sure, these actors said ‘yes’ to the roles knowing there would be nudity, and I noticed Patricia Arquette calling him Satan was omitted, but what choice do actresses really have? Quit, or surrender is not much of a choice. It’s a gross industry, and women suffer within it. I hope this changes as social sensitivity increases.

As Neil Gaiman says, substitute PC for “basic human respect.” Louis L’amour’s quote about choosing not to use obscenity or pornography in his writing and still being able to “make it real” and what he feels much of that writing is covering up for comes to mind, as well.

I appreciate how personal this all was, DL allowing himself to be held up for judgment, exposed, which must be difficult for him. Spirituality should come with personal awareness and accountability.

* After reading Room to Dream, I’m sympathetic about the great expenditure of energy TR took. Jeebus knows I don’t have a fraction of that attention and commitment. This thread has discussed possible senility, but I’ll make allowances for just lack of energy due to age. DL complained he was “so tired” to Strobel and “so much older than everyone else on set” and Emily tried to detail the magnitude of his exhaustion doing what amounted to 9 feature films back to back. All things considered, it was really a feat. The book detailed how well he keeps up with his young team post DL.com era around the house.
Considering the demands he put on himself, I’m impressed it was as successful as it was. It softened my ambivalence because there was so many scenes I did enjoy.

*Also curious about the Antelope Don’t Run No more project and how good the script is supposed to be, and the rumors DL has been spotted at Netflix. Related?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby mtwentz » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:41 am

sylvia_north wrote:Room to Dream was a fast read (audible listen) that I truly enjoyed. Every chapter opened a memory scrapbook of my own life, and I really liked the structure. And it touched on some of the critical things from this thread I think it’s worth noting.

* Now onto the less comforting admissions:
SKIP to the last two paragraphs if you don’t want to hear woman complainin’ about woman things that you personally feel left out of :

* Enough has been written elsewhere online about directors doing to horrible things to female actresses to get an authentic performance, even though male actors aren’t expected to truly break bones or suffer flesh wounds, so I won’t repeat them here, but what Isabella did out of trust and love- doing the nude scene unexpectedly on a totally open set with local spectators and having to show her vulva to Dennis Hopper instead of it being blocked, and her feelings about Lynch’s laughter during the rape scene, (“I still don’t know why...”) and detailing the awful and cold way he dumped her .. We already knew about this things, and that she thought he was loyal when they were long distance but was mistaken and how deeply this hurt her. It doesn’t make them less sad.

Naomi, a survivor, continuously has said DL is responsible for her having an acting career at all when no doors opened to her, talking about the brutality of shooting the masturbation scene- I don’t think I’ll be able to watch that again. The final word on it was, I guess, he got what he wanted out of it. The end justified the means. Justification, minimization- all normal for survivors, who are also easy targets for revictimization- they blame themselves, their boundaries are compromised, they put trust in inappropriate often opportunistic people and find themselves permissive of revictimization. It was icky to hear described, the endless takes, the trauma .

Ditto with the promise to Laura Harring that her nude out-of-shower scene would be shot in the dark and every take was.. until the last one, (SURPRISE!) Sure, these actors said ‘yes’ to the roles knowing there would be nudity, and I noticed Patricia Arquette calling him Satan was omitted, but what choice do actresses really have? Quit, or surrender is not much of a choice. It’s a gross industry, and women suffer within it. I hope this changes as social sensitivity increases.

As Neil Gaiman says, substitute PC for “basic human respect.” Louis L’amour’s quote about choosing not to use obscenity or pornography in his writing and still being able to “make it real” and what he feels much of that writing is covering up for comes to mind, as well.

I appreciate how personal this all was, DL allowing himself to be held up for judgment, exposed, which must be difficult for him. Spirituality should come with personal awareness and accountability.


For some reason, this is reminding me of the situation with Peggy Lipton in Season 2, in which she essentially says Chris Mulkey assaulted during the jailroom scene (she did not use the word 'assault' but I think that's what she's hinting at).

Can a director or actor assault another person under the excuse of the movie making process? That's an interesting question, because you essentially seem to be saying Lynch violated these women 'legally', and I'm not sure you are wrong on that point. Is all this in the book or did you cull some of it from other sources?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby NormoftheAndes » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:46 am

sylvia_north wrote: Lynch himself mentions ‘sowing corn’ when you intent to reap wheat immediately after the story about his high school sweetheart Judy who he discovered during FWWM had killed herself - it isn’t dwelt upon, and the context of the statement isn’t confirmed, but I believe personally it indicates he’s aware of his selfishness.


Great post, thanks! I didn't understand your analysis above, can you explain more please? Are you saying Lynch is selfish trying to find out more about this Judy?

Also, what did you mean about Naomi Watts being a 'survivor'?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:04 pm

sylvia_north wrote:* Enough has been written elsewhere online about directors doing to horrible things to female actresses to get an authentic performance, even though male actors aren’t expected to truly break bones or suffer flesh wounds, so I won’t repeat them here, but what Isabella did out of trust and love- doing the nude scene unexpectedly on a totally open set with local spectators and having to show her vulva to Dennis Hopper instead of it being blocked, and her feelings about Lynch’s laughter during the rape scene, (“I still don’t know why...”) and detailing the awful and cold way he dumped her .. We already knew about this things, and that she thought he was loyal when they were long distance but was mistaken and how deeply this hurt her. It doesn’t make them less sad.


It’s worth noting that Kyle also talks about being a very young and inexperienced actor who was required to be fully nude in front of the crew on BV, and essentially describes disassociating as a coping mechanism to get through. I’m not trying to negate any of your points and I largely agree, but DKL’s insensitivity can be equal-opportunity.

It is also interesting to note that, on the newest Twin Peaks Unwrapped podcast, McKenna says that Patricia Arquette did not return McKenna’s calls for three years, one of the very few people McKenna reached out to who did not participate (the only other people she mentions are Nic Cage and DKL’s two sons refusing). Has Arquette commented on LH at all since the late ‘90s?

EDIT: Also, in the interest of keeping misinformation from spreading, nowhere does he say the woman who committed suicide was named Judy. He very deliberately avoids mentioning her name at all. He does mention dating a Judy Puttnam and a Judy Westerman, but those are different people.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:08 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mb3 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:24 pm

Sorry, I'm too stupid to post a link but if you go to this video on youtube from last year you'll hear Arquette talk a little bit about her experience on LH:
Naomi Watts, Laura Dern & Patricia Arquette Tell Stories About David Lynch | W magazine
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:27 pm

Oh yes, I forgot about that W Magazine feature! Interesting that she participated in a magazine feature commemorating her work with DKL but declined to be interviewed for his book.

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