The Random Season 3 Thread

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Audrey Horne
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:01 am

Yeah, I agree with you on all those points. And for some reason, the imperfections of the second season and now with The Return, it kinda gives it more life for me with the continued what if game. I’m trying to think of an hour drama show that remained tight as a drum (Breaking Bad managed to pull off that hat trick) but I’ll never revisit it like Peaks.

But in speaking of tight as a drum, Peaks first season was it.... all elements converging on the finale cliffhanger. I personally wish with all the planning they had, it had some of that ingenuity in playing with conventional plots. Even the second season didn’t have the surprises of fun like Cooper revealing how he saw James motorcycle reflected in Laura’s eye, the bottle throw or the cherry stem. I wish there were the attempt of more gotcha magic moments like that.

Funny enough, despite her disappointment, I think Fenn got the most exciting scene with that jolt of the white room. I just wish that had been like a midway point, and even Cooper’s exciting wake up, “I am the FBI.” It might be pedestrian but those are when I wasn’t watching cerebrally and just on the edge of my seat.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:30 am

Audrey Horne wrote:Funny enough, despite her disappointment, I think Fenn got the most exciting scene with that jolt of the white room. I just wish that had been like a midway point, and even Cooper’s exciting wake up, “I am the FBI.” It might be pedestrian but those are when I wasn’t watching cerebrally and just on the edge of my seat.


I do love the big reveal with the white room. I think Sherilyn seems more pleased with the final product and that twist, but it seems like her attitude on that varies by the appearance or quote. I also know that the direct link to Audrey - the MFAP/Arm repeating 'the little girl that lives down the lane' line - made my blood run cold. I think the finale for Audrey in that last episode of hers is now one of the show's enduring mysteries. As I said, she's now much more integral to the larger mythos than she was by the end of S2, whatever comes or never comes next.

I think it would've been very satisfying for Cooper and Audrey to converge in the finale - it was what I expected, so maybe that's a fair reason not to do it. (I have other suspicions on why it was held back as well, but that mostly has to do with a possible fourth installment.) But as I think we've discussed before on here, I don't know if I could've stomached Audrey taking, say, Diane's place in Odessa in the motel. That would've been too brutal for me.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:29 am

Agreed, and was the kind of jolt the show needed, no matter which character it was (as long as it was someone we have history with and is semi beloved). I know Lynch said to ideally view this as an eighteen hour movie that washes over you, but at the same time it is impossible to (especially when it airs live) to not a) not process it episodically and speculate and b) divorce yourself from any history or feelings from the original show. This show did live and thrive initially on the water cooler element after all.

I think the Audrey as Linda thing in Odessa probably would’ve worked the best to tie this thing together and have us reevaluate the show as a whole. But then probably alternate it between Diane and Audrey like Coopers reality is breaking down, especially if he is seeing Laura after. Then we’d be speculating for years what was ever real. Was it just about a broken relationship between two regular people Linda and Richard? And Richard is someone who had to make himself into a perfect hero to battle a real life tragedy? Things like Laura Palmer and Richard Horne indicating a child he had, lost, was problematic in his real life? Linda being reimagined to him as something ideal (Caroline, Audrey, Annie, Diane, Janey, Laura) that keeps breaking down on him even in his fantasy? Was Cooper Leland the whole time? It’s a small detail but would’ve been a terrific mind scrambler.

I think the “little girl who lived down the lane” is great, but sadly my gut tells me it was worked into Audrey’s scene already after it was filmed by the Arm. I like a lot of the staging to the Audrey/Charlie living room scenes. She’s sitting in a chair across from an odd, smaller man with a few standing lights... to me, it’s another version of Cooper in the red room. And Charlie/the Arm is giving broken sentences to the prisoner.

In all though, I think all the actors selected were wonderful just that there were too many of them. There should’ve been a more conventional plot to hang this on so anything supernatural or Lynchian would pop. But when it’s all slow, to me it becomes more tedious than exciting. We had a lot, a lot of sitting around and talking. (And I don’t think Lynch and Frost have the snap to dialogue that Engles and especially Peyton have)

Ha, can’t believe I’m back in talking about this! Kinda love it.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby LateReg » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:40 am

Coming at this from a slightly different angle...

Everyone - fans and collaborators alike - is of course entitled to their own strong opinions on the series. But reading Fenn's comments here, candid and truthful and perfectly fine and fun as they are, just makes me ache for Lynch in a way. The thought that he made this visionary work of art - flawed or perfect, good or bad, it certainly is a visionary television/Film thing that stands far out from the pack - and in fact only wants to create but is met with this sort of opposition throughout his entire career even by some who are seemingly supportive, really must get annoying. No wonder he's so frustrated on set at times, with so many doubting his singular vision. Even if they're right in some cases, it still must suck when your mind is working one way and everyone else's is working another. Or if, as with most of Lynch's works, they grow in reputation/acceptance/influence over time and you have to wait for many to come around on your ideas.

Like I said, I'm not delusional. I know that if the entire world were forced to watch something as extreme as The Return then its popularity would only further diminish! And I know that at the end of the day Fenn is still supportive and has some understanding of Lynch's work/mind, and even states as much in her comment about one's interpretation being the most important part. But it still sucks to read her alluding that he should have reined it in so that people could "get something" out of it, which completely ignores how many people have gushed praise on it for being as extreme as it is.

In regards to the Lynch/Fenn relationship, I don't think there's much love lost there, but I do think Lynch was probably annoyed, even if its par for the course of the banter of their relationship. Needleman brought up the behind the scenes as proof of their friendship, but let's also not forget that in those clips Fenn eggs Lynch on and states that her character's dialogue resembles her own negotiations with Lynch...to which Lynch just mischievously smiles. So I definitely do think that her role was partially shaped by their own behind the scenes drama, though not necessarily as punishment. Which is par for the course of how The Return operates in its relationship to reality beyond the frame including Lynch's history with actors.

And in regards to the series regulars just being dropped in after the central story was concocted, I don't know that I agree or that it matters. There are some instances where certain characters had to be in the original script, while others become central due to what Lynch might refer to as "harmonics," each character staying true to the idea of the piece, bouncing off and mirroring one another in highly intuitive fashion.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:05 am

I think it makes the most sense based on the nature of their structure and in the planning, the spine was Cooper in Vegas and the FBI investigation. Then with elements of Peaks that ideally who they wanted from the original, but if they couldn’t do it, it could be reworked. From the original, I think they really only had definites were the Sheriff and Audrey and Coooer have a bad seed. I’m sure Lynch knew he had Catherine Coulsen, and most others would say yes and their stuff could be filmed in a few days each.

Filmmaking is collaborative, especially in the Peaks world. People get frustrated, there’s scheduling of real life to balance, etc. people, actors have opinions because they’re people. I’ve been lucky to know a lot of performers from the show and the overall impression is that they’re all really appreciative of Lynch and Frost for even making this happen.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby bosguy1981 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:00 am

I'm not sure if I've ever mentioned this theory here but we know that one of the scenes that Sherilyn turned down was her son Richard Horne attacking her and robbing her similar to the Sylvia scene. I have to wonder if the version with Audrey may have been scripted to include some very, like, sexualized vibes in the violent scene between son and mother. Richard is the child of a rape by Cooper and when he's assaulting his mother, having that kind of awful layer on top of the scene would bring the incestuous sexual violence themes as shown in Fire Walk With Me back in an intense, disturbing way. And David Lynch seems like he would be open to making our skin crawl in that sort of way. Like an intense awful Blue Velvet kind of vibe added to it. I have no info that this was ever part of the plan but it's a gut feeling/theory I have for some reason so I wanted to share it.

Would be great if someday she shared more details about what was originally written but oftentimes she sounds so disgusted/irked by the very mention of the early draft that it's like she doesn't want to elaborate on it at all.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:04 pm

I’m with LateReg. Fenn is certainly entitled to her opinions. But the part that rankles me about her remarks, and to an extent Ray’s as well, is this notion that Lynch needs an adult in the room holding his hand. They’re both brilliant actors, but I don’t believe either has ever written or directed. I think it’s a tad flippant to be so dismissive of one of the most universally acclaimed directors living today, talking about him like an overexcited child who needs to be constantly reigned on. I know they both have enormous respect for him, but that aspect of their remarks just strikes me as bad form.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:59 pm

I think that is embellishing what they’re saying. They praise him. But they’re also comparing and contrasting the difference between working with him under different guidelines. And they’re not talking behind his back, at least with Fenn she voiced her concerns right away.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:13 pm

I don't think Ray said anything like that. I think Sherilyn, well, Sherilyn's take spans a lot of things depending on the week. She's entitled to her feelings, but I only agree with some of them. But I also think she and DKL are fine these days. The love there is clear in the doc.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Rainwater » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:44 am

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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:54 pm

So I watched The Grand Budapest Hotel the other night, and it changed my opinion about some of the Season 3 scenes that were viewed as "lacking music". There have been many who found certain segments, such as "It's not about the bunny", to be kind of empty without the familiar jazzy interludes that were featured so prominently in the first two seasons of the show. Sometimes I agreed with those opinions, but I have to say, many scenes in The Grand Budapest Hotel were spoiled by such treatment. They were reduced to feeling like car insurance commercials, essentially. The combination of quick wit, fast pacing, and flippant music was a bit much at times, as if it was trying too hard, resulting in dulled impact. Great film overall, though. Anyway I've changed my opinion, I'm going all in and standing by the scenes without music.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Cappy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:37 am

I'm still not sure if Leland Palmer's request to Cooper to "Find Laura" is:

a) a sincere act on the part of remorseful (good?) Leland, the one who went to the light and saw Laura as he died in S2E16, whose intent is to save Laura from whatever is happening to her in S3.

b) a deceitful act on the part of Leland's doppelganger, the one from the Season 2 finale, who wants to ensnare Laura for his own malicious intents.

c) a conflicted act on the part of FWWM Leland, the one who seemingly can carry out heinous acts with or without BOB's control, who wants Laura back so she can give his soul forgiveness, but simultaneously wants to destroy Laura and the redemption she may represent to him.

d) This version of Leland exists along different parameters from the depictions we have seen in the past, and primarily exists to restate Cooper's goal of finding Laura for the purpose of defeating the Judy entity. Maybe this Leland wants to save what's left of Sarah Palmer's soul, but that's never explicitly hinted at.

or e) none of the above. We just get so little of Leland Palmer in S3, that it's really impossible to nail down his character's deal in the Red Room. He seems sad and remorseful, so that would suggest a good intent, but Leland was adept and feigning those emotions in FWWM to achieve his aims. So who knows?
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:02 am

Cappy wrote:I'm still not sure if Leland Palmer's request to Cooper to "Find Laura" is:

a) a sincere act on the part of remorseful (good?) Leland, the one who went to the light and saw Laura as he died in S2E16, whose intent is to save Laura from whatever is happening to her in S3.

b) a deceitful act on the part of Leland's doppelganger, the one from the Season 2 finale, who wants to ensnare Laura for his own malicious intents.

c) a conflicted act on the part of FWWM Leland, the one who seemingly can carry out heinous acts with or without BOB's control, who wants Laura back so she can give his soul forgiveness, but simultaneously wants to destroy Laura and the redemption she may represent to him.

d) This version of Leland exists along different parameters from the depictions we have seen in the past, and primarily exists to restate Cooper's goal of finding Laura for the purpose of defeating the Judy entity. Maybe this Leland wants to save what's left of Sarah Palmer's soul, but that's never explicitly hinted at.

or e) none of the above. We just get so little of Leland Palmer in S3, that it's really impossible to nail down his character's deal in the Red Room. He seems sad and remorseful, so that would suggest a good intent, but Leland was adept and feigning those emotions in FWWM to achieve his aims. So who knows?


I think Between Two Worlds gives us a clue as to Lynch’s mindset, re: Leland during the period he was scripting TP:TR. In BTW, Leland—even after twenty-five years in the afterlife—is in complete denial about his own culpability, insisting that it was someone else who carried out those acts (which we know from FWWM is a vast oversimplification/obfuscation). Therefore, I think he is sincere in wanting Cooper to save Laura on the surface, but may be more conflicted deep down...so, (c) might be the closest, IMO. Significantly, it seems that by aligning himself with the misguided/self-righteous Leland’s agenda, Cooper does Laura more harm than good.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby LateReg » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:57 am

Cappy wrote:I'm still not sure if Leland Palmer's request to Cooper to "Find Laura" is:

or e) none of the above. We just get so little of Leland Palmer in S3, that it's really impossible to nail down his character's deal in the Red Room. He seems sad and remorseful, so that would suggest a good intent, but Leland was adept and feigning those emotions in FWWM to achieve his aims. So who knows?


I've said this before, but I don't think Leland was exactly feigning those emotions. He would realize his wrongdoing, and in that moment feel genuinely awful. When that veil falls or lifts, I believe it is something that Leland is not in control of, but he gains awareness in the moments in which he comes down. That's how it looks to me in the scene before he apologizes to Laura, and I'm offering that insight from experience.
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Re: The Random Season 3 Thread

Postby TwinsPeak » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:59 am

I think C) or B) fit best for how I see it. Its amazing how its open for interpretation. Nice topic cappy.

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