General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

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Soolsma
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Soolsma » Tue May 29, 2018 10:45 am

Even more hidden sound design clues uncovered. from Reddit by /user/lightfromadeadstar

Recently, I watched season 3 at four-times the normal speed, since it was apparent Lynch included several musical cues at quarter speed ("Moonlight Sonata" in "Part 8" and "Part 17" being the most obvious).

I'm currently writing up all the interesting sounds and music I found (and there's a damn lot), but one interesting thing has stuck out: the phone call Cooper's doppelgänger receives in "Part 2".

The phone call

In "Part 2", Cooper's doppelgänger receives a call from a person he believes to be Phillip Jeffries–though it's clearly an imposter.

The voice is obviously processed and modulated, but what's more interesting is the sound design in the scene, not the voice itself. What appears to be a low-frequency drone throughout is actually a strange, edited piece of 1930s-sounding jazz music playing at quarter speed, with pad sounds from the Fire Walk with Me track "Phillip Jeffries" fading in and out.

While I originally thought this might indicate the caller was the Fireman (he clearly likes old jazz and plans to trap the doppelgänger), this particular music plays only once more in the entire season, again at quarter speed to sound like an ominous drone.

The second instance

It's only ever played again in "Part 14", after Sarah Palmer (or rather the entity inhabiting her, likely Judy) kills the trucker at the bar (the music starts around 00:11).

Many have previously speculated the uncredited voice on the phone was Grace Zabriskie. And it seems the two instances of this music seems to further connect Sarah (or rather Judy via Sarah) to the phone call to the doppelgänger.

Another clue

What's more, at the end of "Part 2", during Sarah's very first scene, an edited version of Lynch's song "Last Call" is also playing at quarter-speed.

"Last call" as a term refers to the final orders at a bar, and Sarah is obviously shown deep in alcoholism. But what if it's also a double entendre, another hidden clue in the sound design (essentially a subtle wink-wink by Lynch) to the fact Sarah/Judy was the caller?
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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N. Needleman
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue May 29, 2018 4:44 pm

Kilmoore wrote:If the Fireman and the Giant are the same character, something very significant has changed betweeen S2 and S3. Some kind of power balance has shifted, perhaps. I wrote in some earlier topic:

In the original series, the Giant clearly says he is only allowed to give Cooper hints, and a limited amount of them. But the Fireman gives Cooper a navigation guide to another dimension, imbues a Brit with superpowers to beat up BOB, fills Andy in on the situation to a level of understanding and gives brainbirth to Laura after watching an episode of Twin Peaks in a celestial theater.

Behavior is what defines a character and these two characters behave very differently.


Just because he could do one thing for Cooper during WKLP doesn't mean he can't do something else for Andy - in his own realm, no less.

Also, it's not like Twin Peaks has ever subscribed to the kind of strict narrative rules you describe.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Kilmoore » Tue May 29, 2018 9:54 pm

N. Needleman wrote:Also, it's not like Twin Peaks has ever subscribed to the kind of strict narrative rules you describe.

That is, really, the heart of the problem. It's not like Lynch and Frost went back and examined how the Giant behaved in the original. They just used a same actor as a similar character, without any intention of consistency. Therefore, speculation on the character is pointless. At times, he is the same kind, others he isn't, and there isn't any grand reason behind it. Any conclusion can be drawn, making all of them equally wrong.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby LateReg » Tue May 29, 2018 10:28 pm

Kilmoore wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:Also, it's not like Twin Peaks has ever subscribed to the kind of strict narrative rules you describe.

That is, really, the heart of the problem. It's not like Lynch and Frost went back and examined how the Giant behaved in the original. They just used a same actor as a similar character, without any intention of consistency. Therefore, speculation on the character is pointless. At times, he is the same kind, others he isn't, and there isn't any grand reason behind it. Any conclusion can be drawn, making all of them equally wrong.


Or equally right. Which is the one and only thing we concretely know of Lynch's intentions.
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N. Needleman
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed May 30, 2018 3:36 am

LateReg wrote:
Kilmoore wrote:Any conclusion can be drawn, making all of them equally wrong.


Or equally right.


Just like the last 25+ years of Twin Peaks fan theorizing and speculation. Business as usual. Expecting anything different after decades is, IMO, a mistake.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby enumbs » Wed May 30, 2018 12:33 pm

I wonder if the Fireman adjusts his communication style depending on the audience he's addressing. So where the straightforward Freddie receives explicit instructions, the detective Dale Cooper gets a series of riddles and opaque clues. As for Andy, who isn't the most educated but has a degree of emotional intuition, he sees images designed to connect with him on a gut level.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby LateReg » Wed May 30, 2018 2:16 pm

enumbs wrote:I wonder if the Fireman adjusts his communication style depending on the audience he's addressing. So where the straightforward Freddie receives explicit instructions, the detective Dale Cooper gets a series of riddles and opaque clues. As for Andy, who isn't the most educated but has a degree of emotional intuition, he sees images designed to connect with him on a gut level.


I like that.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Poiuyt » Thu May 31, 2018 9:28 am

The Fireman seems to have the ability to communicate specific instructions without necessarily speaking them. Or rather, his coded language conveys a deeper meaning that only the direct recipient can fully understand.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Poiuyt » Thu May 31, 2018 9:31 am

In other words, if the Freddie/Fireman scene had been filmed, we'd have seen something like... "Green glove... department store." While Freddie would have heard everything he later told James.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Jerry Horne » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:47 pm

...
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:07 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:...


I take this as further proof that the Dougie storyline originated as a deranged Mad Men spoof before taking on a life of its own.

It’s sort of funny that the look DKL ultimately settled on for Naomi is pretty close to Mulholland Drive (pink cardigan and all).
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby mtwentz » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:39 am

In thinking back on The Return, one reason I posit for the profoundly disappointed group is that The Return is much more a 'cerebral' adventure, whereas the original series and FWWM were more a combination of cerebral and emotional, with the balance leaning towards the emotional.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Valaquen » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:50 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Great post, LateReg, although I’m still not convinced that Cooper actually changes the past — at least, not for more than a few seconds (however one temporally measures such a thing!). Yes, I know TFD seems to support the inference that he created some new timeline where Laura disappeared instead of being killed...but we’re talking about DKL’s ouevre here, not the book, and as he said of TSHoTP, “That is Mark’s book. I have never read it and I don’t want to. He has his own ideas of the history and I have my own.” Going by simply what they chose to show us in the series, Laura vanishes from Cooper’s grasp and screams, and afterward we don’t know what-all happens to the world that we knew and loved...in fact, it seems quite possible that we never see the established TP world again after that moment. All we know is Cooper’s plan to bring Laura to the Fireman’s fails because she literally disappears from his grasp, he ends up repeating a (nearly-identical) version of his earlier Red Room scenes, with Laura AGAIN being whisked away screaming, and when he finally manages to find Laura again, it’s not in an altered version of the old reality. Instead, it seems to be an entirely different world where someone who looks like Laura has been dropped into an entirely different life/identity, a phenomenon akin in some ways to the “Betty” world in MD or the “Blue Tomorrows” world in IE — which doesn’t fit cozily into the traditional definition of “changing the past.”

I certainly agree that Cooper’s EFFORTS to change the past lead to some bad mojo, but I don’t see much evidence that any part of what he was attempting went according to plan.

This was my take, also. Time travel seemed too sci-fi for Lynch and TP, I prefer to think of it as... reality-swapping. Likening Coop's predicament to "Betty" in MD is probably the best simile, except I see Betty as being stuck in a cycle, a loop that may span forever to feed Lodge-like being overseers (the Cowboy, etc, just as the Mystery Man from LH gets off on tormenting Bill Pullman). Cooper simply seems more aware (but not completely) of his predicament than Betty, who of course was willing to have her dreams played out as reality. It was my theory that the guy at the diner in MD is also stuck in one of these cycles, being fed on repeatedly, and he has been there perhaps for years, only remembering the last iteration as some misty but frightening dream. I think of Laura/Carrie the same way; another unwitting resident in an elaborate feeding pen. One thing I love about The Return is how it seems to encapsulate all of Lynch's work, especially the films post-FWWM.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:50 pm

mtwentz wrote:In thinking back on The Return, one reason I posit for the profoundly disappointed group is that The Return is much more a 'cerebral' adventure, whereas the original series and FWWM were more a combination of cerebral and emotional, with the balance leaning towards the emotional.

Yeah, what really irks me about The Return is how it's so great yet so un-Peaks. It's basically like picking up a new album from Angelo Badalamenti and hearing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egbUv_hmVcE
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Rigpa » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:18 am

Just heard a short interview on NPR with David Lynch. After talking a bit about the new book Room To Dream, the interviewer asked him about his meditation practice. Lynch spoke about how with the meditation technique stress, anxieties, tensions, sadness, depression, hate, rage, need for revenge, and fear start to automatically lift away. So why, the interviewer asks, are his movies are so dark? His answer was an artist doesn’t have to suffer to show suffering. I understand that, but what I would have asked instead was why does he choose to give the world portrayals of suffering instead of joy? This is what so bewildered me about season 3. At this point in my life, with the world so full of pain and suffering and craziness, I don’t need to add to my consciousness, through the art I choose to experience, more suffering. I was knocked down for several days after watching part 18. So bleak and hopeless…Why not spread around calm, peace, happiness, love instead? At least a better balance of light and dark. There is still much I enjoy and admire in Lynch’s work. And I did re-watch parts 1-17—but I will never watch part 18 again. I’ll go re-watch Call Me By Your Name instead.

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