Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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mtwentz
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:28 am

madeleineferguson wrote:Just watched Season 1, Episode 2. What if Carrie Page is Laura's cousin? 25 years past, it seems obvious TMFAP is talking about Maddy Ferguson. However, since the dream takes place 25 years in the future... the obvious cousin would be Carrie Page.

Why would her cousin hear Sarah's voice?
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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madeleineferguson
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:46 am

mtwentz wrote:
madeleineferguson wrote:Just watched Season 1, Episode 2. What if Carrie Page is Laura's cousin? 25 years past, it seems obvious TMFAP is talking about Maddy Ferguson. However, since the dream takes place 25 years in the future... the obvious cousin would be Carrie Page.

Why would her cousin hear Sarah's voice?


No idea! "But doesn't she look almost exactly like Laura Palmer?"
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mtwentz
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:51 pm

madeleineferguson wrote:
mtwentz wrote:
madeleineferguson wrote:Just watched Season 1, Episode 2. What if Carrie Page is Laura's cousin? 25 years past, it seems obvious TMFAP is talking about Maddy Ferguson. However, since the dream takes place 25 years in the future... the obvious cousin would be Carrie Page.

Why would her cousin hear Sarah's voice?


No idea! "But doesn't she look almost exactly like Laura Palmer?"


Part 18 is so open-ended, any interpretation is possible.

But that being said, I think the strongest evidence is that Carrie Paige is 'some version' of Laura Palmer.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby krishnanspace » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:57 pm

mtwentz wrote:
madeleineferguson wrote:
mtwentz wrote:Why would her cousin hear Sarah's voice?


No idea! "But doesn't she look almost exactly like Laura Palmer?"


Part 18 is so open-ended, any interpretation is possible.

But that being said, I think the strongest evidence is that Carrie Paige is 'some version' of Laura Palmer.

Agreed.It almost felt like a prologue to a new Chapter in Twin Peaks
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Jonah
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:41 pm

I haven't posted here in almost a year! I really hated this episode when I first saw it, having mostly liked Part 17. I recently rewatched both of the last two Parts (planning to rewatch the whole revival soon) and I've warmed a little to Part 18. I think it's well shot and eerie. I still think it's a bit disappointing that more things weren't resolved (but, come on, who was I kidding? This is Lynch!), but it's better than I remember it being. I hope they do Season 4, though, and pick up directly from here. I'm not really expecting answers if they do, but I think it would be fascinating to see Cooper and Laura (aka Carrie Page) check in to The Great Northern and start exploring the town of Twin Peaks, past present future and alternative world, together, in search of answers.

A couple of points I noticed on the rewatch - According to Google, it takes 28 hours to drive from Odessa to Washington. It didn't seem like they were driving that long. Maybe 12 hours, but definitely not a day and a bit. They never stopped to sleep and we saw it go from day to dark, but not day again. Was that Ronette's bridge they drove through when they reached the town or just a bridge that looks like it? Interesting that it never showed them passing the Welcome to Twin Peaks sign (maybe it doesn't exist in this version of the town, or in this year...though the RR does).
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:07 pm

But missing the RR2GO part.

Not Ronette's bridge. That bridge is close to the 4 way intersection where Richard runs over the kid.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby naked bat » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:13 am

Whenever I think about S3 (which is almost every day), there are several scenes that come to my mind: Coop and the fireman, the mauve room, Senorita Dido and the last scene. This one is especially haunting, even now.

To me, the Return is an incredible achievement because it's one of those rare piece of art that still haunt me long after having watched it.

A short movie about a man who goes in an abandoned morgue at night.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:38 am

[quote="Jonah"Interesting that it never showed them passing the Welcome to Twin Peaks sign (maybe it doesn't exist in this version of the town, or in this year...though the RR does).[/quote]

They showed us the RR which could simply be the Mar T café, they showed us the Palmer house, just as it looks in real life, and the door was opened by it's current real life owner. However her name was Alice Tremond. Even though the conclusion of the scene seems to be that the characters did not cross over into "our" world, I do think those images were meant to tease us that it could be what was happening, until the eventual illusion shattering scream.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:03 pm

So is the general consensus that Richard and Carrie ended up in "our" world?

I'm not saying they realize they are (or were) characters in a TV show, but maybe the existential horror they exhibit in the very last scene suggests they're realizing they're not in their "correct" universe as their "correct" selves? And earlier when Cooper's face looks directly at the audience telling us they live inside a dream, they're breaking the fourth wall and more or less setting up Part 18?

Head. Hurts. For me the entire season is Lynch and Frost criticizing TV revivals and how you can never recapture nostalgia and Richard/Coop and Carrie/Laura themselves as characters in a TV show realize this in the last scene.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby kitty666cats » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:54 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:So is the general consensus that Richard and Carrie ended up in "our" world?

I'm not saying they realize they are (or were) characters in a TV show, but maybe the existential horror they exhibit in the very last scene suggests they're realizing they're not in their "correct" universe as their "correct" selves? And earlier when Cooper's face looks directly at the audience telling us they live inside a dream, they're breaking the fourth wall and more or less setting up Part 18?

Head. Hurts. For me the entire season is Lynch and Frost criticizing TV revivals and how you can never recapture nostalgia and Richard/Coop and Carrie/Laura themselves as characters in a TV show realize this in the last scene.


You probably can recapture nostalgia if you bring Robert Engels and Harley Peyton on board and have them write with Frost a lot and leave the imagery/mood to Lynch :lol:
My bitterness and bias isn't showing AT ALL, is it? ;)
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:04 pm

I was lying awake til the early hours last night, indulging in my favourite past time of trying to work out what the hell happened in the last episodes of S3. I came to a new understanding, and apologies if any of this is old hat. This post is a bit epic, but it's not a nutty theory.

I've been really obsessed with the second departure of Cooper from the lodge. Why does he meet Diane? Why do they ask each other "is it really you?!", and "do you remember everything"? It suddenly struck me as obvious in the following way.

In the original series history, Cooper entered the lodge and his doppelganger left (in 1990? 1989? Whatever). At some point, probably shortly after, his Doppelganger raped Diane and took her somewhere outside of the normal timeline (the lodge? the Dutchmans? It's months since I watched it, so I can't remember). He released a tulpa in her wake. Since then, Diane was somehow shepherded via the fireman back into the same timeline, after the death of theh tulpa. We see all that in S3. In this timeline, Cooper himself leaves the lodge 25 years later, and eventually gets to Twin Peaks and kills the doppelganger. Then, he enters a portal, goes back in time and saves Laura, but loses her as we all know.

What happens next? Cooper in the "revised original timeline" still goes to the lodge (on blue rose business?). But he can come out naturally, which he does, and he is in cahoots with the fireman. It isn't really clear exactly when he does this, but in a sense it doesn't matter. He meets Diane, who he is collaborating with, and this Diane still vaguely remembers everything from the original version of events (in which she was raped and kidnapped by the Doppelganger), because The Final Dossier makes clear that people in this revised timeline can still sort of remember the "unofficial version" until their memory becomes hazy. That's why Cooper asks her if she remembers everything, and if it is really her. He is checking the plan, and needs to make sure the tulpa has been dispatched, and he is indeed on course.

He then goes into an alternate timeline via a portal, with the real Diane. Diane suffers a loss of identity in this new timeline after seeing the version of herself that exists in this timeline, and she becomes subsumed in a new identity. I think the traumatic sex scene is partly showing us her loss of identity (she is suddenly having sex with a stranger instead of the man she loves), or it equally relates to a traumatic memory of the doppelganger. In either case, erotic is not an apt description. Cooper then continues with the fireman's plan after that, which remains mysterious.

Cooper needs to take Diane to the alternate timeline, because the sex magic attracts Judy somehow (we see that in the first episode). Something about his plan is about attracting Judy. I think the two birds with one stone are "get Judy and find Laura", but we all know that.

I'm interested to hear how much of this chimes with other views, and indeed if I'm simply recycling lots of stuff from other members, but it finally settled in my head.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:50 pm

One thing I forgot to make clearer: the Diane that Cooper meets when he exits the lodge (the second time we see it) is therefore the real Diane that has not been raped by a Doppelganger, since this never happened in that timeline. But she has a memory of it happening in another version of events, that is now receding.

When they get to Odessa, she is therefore really confused. Not only is she still coping with the creep of events in the original universe, she is now having to hang on to her identity in a parallel universe.

Cooper does better at this because he has been primed or trained by the Fireman (and indeed it is his job on the Blue Rose taskforce to engage in this realm). He is starting to suffer the same confusion we saw in Jeffries in FWWM though. The "we live inside a dream" scene to me visualises his confusion as the portal opens and he enters it. Spacetime itself is being messed with.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TwinsPeak » Thu May 02, 2019 5:15 am

I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions on why the old Palmer house used to be owned by the Chalfont's in final scene. I have my own ideas but would love to hear others. Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Rainwater » Thu May 02, 2019 7:24 am

TwinsPeak wrote:Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?

I don't think so. I think Lynch cast her because he thought she'd be right for it when he met her, that's all. And she was, wasn't she?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Thu May 02, 2019 9:16 am

Rainwater wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?

I don't think so. I think Lynch cast her because he thought she'd be right for it when he met her, that's all. And she was, wasn't she?


There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.

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