No Ray Wise?

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vicksvapor77
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby vicksvapor77 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:20 am

Mordeen wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:I saw people blaming David for not including Leland so I wanted to add my two cents. I met Ray Wise at a recent con and he had some very clear feelings on Mark Frost, especially his books. Let's just say... he's not a fan. I made a comment that I wish he was in it more and I'm pretty sure he more or less blamed Mark for it. I have a video my friend took of me talking to him that I definitely don't want to share publicly. I'll review it though.

You and I might want to compare notes.

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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby vicksvapor77 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:20 am

bosguy1981 wrote:
Soolsma wrote:Wasn't it recently suggested on this board that it was Frost imagining Cooper waking up in Vegas which got things going in the first place? I think Frost has always been very much in favor of increasing the scope of things, both historically and geographically. Just look at TSHOTP.


Frost gave an interview shortly after the series wrapped and he said that his primary focus on brainstorming the new season with Lynch was to "get out of the sleepy, creepy little town" and expand the story to other places.

And Lynch revealed that when Frost approached him with the initial idea, Frost envisioned Cooper somehow materializing inside an abandoned home in an abandoned neighborhood in Las Vegas. So that seemed to be the starting point provided by Frost.


Do you know what interview that was by chance?
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby madeleineferguson » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:23 am

As insane as this sounds, I now hope that Season 3 was mostly a cleaning of the pipes for both Frost and Lynch. They were interested in Twin Peaks, sure, but I think their focus sometimes drifted to things that didn't have anything to do with the show.

There wasn't any real reason why David Lynch had to film that scene in Paris with Monica Bellucci. He just wanted to film in Paris and work with Monica Bellucci... it didn't have anything to do with Twin Peaks. Yes, the scene is powerful as Lynch filmed it, but it would have been equally powerful or even more impactful had it been filmed in Washington State, with any number of original Twin Peaks cast members. And it would have cost a hell of a lot less too.

As for Mark Frost, just look at the Secret History of Twin Peaks. Thomas Jefferson, Illuminati, Richard Nixon, Scientology and the little green men... come on. He was all over the place. Most of that stuff didn't have anything to do with Twin Peaks, but Frost got to write about some things that apparently interest him.

So here's hoping the pipes are cleaned out and these two can seriously focus back on Twin Peaks in Season 4.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby kitty666cats » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:09 am

madeleineferguson wrote:As insane as this sounds, I now hope that Season 3 was mostly a cleaning of the pipes for both Frost and Lynch. They were interested in Twin Peaks, sure, but I think their focus sometimes drifted to things that didn't have anything to do with the show.

There wasn't any real reason why David Lynch had to film that scene in Paris with Monica Bellucci. He just wanted to film in Paris and work with Monica Bellucci... it didn't have anything to do with Twin Peaks. Yes, the scene is powerful as Lynch filmed it, but it would have been equally powerful or even more impactful had it been filmed in Washington State, with any number of original Twin Peaks cast members. And it would have cost a hell of a lot less too.

As for Mark Frost, just look at the Secret History of Twin Peaks. Thomas Jefferson, Illuminati, Richard Nixon, Scientology and the little green men... come on. He was all over the place. Most of that stuff didn't have anything to do with Twin Peaks, but Frost got to write about some things that apparently interest him.

So here's hoping the pipes are cleaned out and these two can seriously focus back on Twin Peaks in Season 4.


The Bellucci scene was, as far as I know, mainly for tax cuts that you somehow become eligible for if you film in France. The end credits of each episode mention it towards the end
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:54 am

vicksvapor77 wrote:
bosguy1981 wrote:Frost gave an interview shortly after the series wrapped and he said that his primary focus on brainstorming the new season with Lynch was to "get out of the sleepy, creepy little town" and expand the story to other places.

And Lynch revealed that when Frost approached him with the initial idea, Frost envisioned Cooper somehow materializing inside an abandoned home in an abandoned neighborhood in Las Vegas. So that seemed to be the starting point provided by Frost.


Do you know what interview that was by chance?


The Lynch interview mentioned is this one: https://deadline.com/2018/08/twin-peaks ... 202407985/

I think the Frost interview was from the Austin Film Festival. It was an audio recording as I recall.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby LateReg » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:09 am

kitty666cats wrote:
madeleineferguson wrote:As insane as this sounds, I now hope that Season 3 was mostly a cleaning of the pipes for both Frost and Lynch. They were interested in Twin Peaks, sure, but I think their focus sometimes drifted to things that didn't have anything to do with the show.

There wasn't any real reason why David Lynch had to film that scene in Paris with Monica Bellucci. He just wanted to film in Paris and work with Monica Bellucci... it didn't have anything to do with Twin Peaks. Yes, the scene is powerful as Lynch filmed it, but it would have been equally powerful or even more impactful had it been filmed in Washington State, with any number of original Twin Peaks cast members. And it would have cost a hell of a lot less too.

As for Mark Frost, just look at the Secret History of Twin Peaks. Thomas Jefferson, Illuminati, Richard Nixon, Scientology and the little green men... come on. He was all over the place. Most of that stuff didn't have anything to do with Twin Peaks, but Frost got to write about some things that apparently interest him.

So here's hoping the pipes are cleaned out and these two can seriously focus back on Twin Peaks in Season 4.


The Bellucci scene was, as far as I know, mainly for tax cuts that you somehow become eligible for if you film in France. The end credits of each episode mention it towards the end


The Bellucci scene is so layered and loaded with meaning, some of which may be lost if the scene were filmed elsewhere with Twin Peaks characters. It's integral to the numerous levels of reality the film depicts. I think you can argue that Lynch/Frost drifted from the "literal" Twin Peaks, but I think everything they did absolutely had to do with what they personally considered Twin Peaks to be - an idea, a concept, an abstraction, a playground.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby eyeboogers » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:20 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I think the Frost interview was from the Austin Film Festival. It was an audio recording as I recall.


It doesn't seem to be from the Austin talk, although Frost does go into why Vegas made it into the series from 13:36. That being said I definitely have read (not heard) that Frost quite somewhere as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q7Rgyssx9A
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Soolsma » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:13 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
bosguy1981 wrote:
Soolsma wrote:Wasn't it recently suggested on this board that it was Frost imagining Cooper waking up in Vegas which got things going in the first place? I think Frost has always been very much in favor of increasing the scope of things, both historically and geographically. Just look at TSHOTP.


Frost gave an interview shortly after the series wrapped and he said that his primary focus on brainstorming the new season with Lynch was to "get out of the sleepy, creepy little town" and expand the story to other places.

And Lynch revealed that when Frost approached him with the initial idea, Frost envisioned Cooper somehow materializing inside an abandoned home in an abandoned neighborhood in Las Vegas. So that seemed to be the starting point provided by Frost.


Do you know what interview that was by chance?


There was also a q&a at the Austin Film Festival. Here is an article summarizing both the interview and the q&a

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/twin- ... 201975099/

I've read it before but it's well worth a re-read. Real cool inside look into the writing process. Interesting that also this prevalent theme of modern decay stems from Frost's very first vision of the new Twin Peaks, while people almost always attribute it to Lynch.
Last edited by Soolsma on Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mordeen » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:40 pm

kitty666cats wrote:
The Bellucci scene was, as far as I know, mainly for tax cuts that you somehow become eligible for if you film in France. The end credits of each episode mention it towards the end

Uhhh...

That scene cuts to the very heart of what the entirety of The Return was depicting.

We live inside a dream.

Productions are required to give credit to any grants or tax breaks in order to collect them.

Also, that was one of the most secretive scenes filmed for The Return, for a very good reason, but too many sleuths existed to keep it quiet.

Hahah it's funny that a thread about Ray Wise has turned into the most active on this board of late. Gotta love the chaos of Dugpa.

- Mordeen
Moving Through Time. . .
LateReg
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby LateReg » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:36 pm

Mordeen wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
The Bellucci scene was, as far as I know, mainly for tax cuts that you somehow become eligible for if you film in France. The end credits of each episode mention it towards the end

Uhhh...

That scene cuts to the very heart of what the entirety of The Return was depicting.

We live inside a dream.

Productions are required to give credit to any grants or tax breaks in order to collect them.

Also, that was one of the most secretive scenes filmed for The Return, for a very good reason, but too many sleuths existed to keep it quiet.

Hahah it's funny that a thread about Ray Wise has turned into the most active on this board of late. Gotta love the chaos of Dugpa.

- Mordeen


One of the things that you missed while you were gone was a lot of people being very down on certain scenes, in some cases due to second guessing Lynch's intent. The Paris scene was one of them that received a lot of hate as Lynch was accused of only filming the scene for tax cuts (and no other artistic or thematic purpose) and only so that he could stare at Bellucci. I always thought it was a key sequence and was very frustrated to see so many in the disappointed thread be so cynical and not even think about the meaning of the scene.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Soolsma » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:55 pm

Paris, one of the most important art capitols, is the cradle of surrealism. Pretty sure that has something to with that scene being placed there. Lynch owns a club there. He has an affiliation to the city.

There are also some more deliberate reality vs. fiction shenanigans going on there: the inclusion of Monica Bellucci, Lynch had an art exhibition "Plume of Desire" in that very street. Some say that it's that very exhibition space which Cole turns to look at. Possibly making him/Lynch the dreamer?

In Lynch's original handwritten notes. (one of the very first "leaks", obviously deliberate) There was even something about a scene in which we'd enter a TV and the film would become the reality above the description of the Bellucci dream. Take a close look:
Image

No, this had nothing to do with tax cuts. This was one of Lynch's most creative ideas he just had to roll with. If you ask me, the man probably had a real life Bellucci dream whilst deep in the writing process and pondering over Cooper's character. One of the most powerful scenes in the Return for sure.

Oh boy, would it be great to see more of that notebook. A true goldmine of Twin Peaks secrets. Too bad it's probably the last thing we'd ever be able to lay our hands on.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby madeleineferguson » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:20 pm

I guess I just didn't get any of that in watching the scene.

Imagine if that scene had been filmed with Joan Chen, as Joan Chen. Or Laura Flynn Boyle or Piper Laurie, as themselves.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:32 pm

Soolsma wrote:Paris, one of the most important art capitols, is the cradle of surrealism. Pretty sure that has something to with that scene being placed there. Lynch owns a club there. He has an affiliation to the city.

There are also some more deliberate reality vs. fiction shenanigans going on there: the inclusion of Monica Bellucci, Lynch had an art exhibition "Plume of Desire" in that very street. Some say that it's that very exhibition space which Cole turns to look at. Possibly making him/Lynch the dreamer?


I believe the scene is also set right next to Idem, a lithograph printing studio, and one of Lynch’s favorite places (he says in his autobiography that, despite his aversion to leaving the house, he travels to Idem multiple times a year and feels very much at home there). I believe the café is the place Lynch obtains his coffee while working at the studio.

I’ve been assuming that in the script/notebook page, the scene takes place inside Sarah’s TV (it says, “All this is on her TV in living room”). The implications of Sarah watching the Bellucci scene play out are super fascinating given her associations with Judy.

Hopefully one day Lynch’s notepads will be donated to a museum somewhere, as many of Bob Dylan’s have been, so we can peruse them!
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Soolsma » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:43 pm

https://i.imgur.com/JcMGO71.png

^- I found another, more clean, screenshot of the notebook. It seems to say: "something something, what the FUCK. Grace (Zabriskie??) sees herself leave the bowling alley, then cross to bar. All this is on her TV in living room. " Of course this could just be a Lynch habit of referring to his characters with their actor names and vice versa.

Makes one wonder. Why did we get boxing and animals being devoured instead of some of that good stuff?! Maybe he decided it was a little too much of something he wanted to hint at.

Mr. Reindeer wrote: super fascinating given her associations with Judy.


Indeed. The real life Twede's in pt. 18, the real life Tremonds, also seemingly her doing.

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Hopefully one day Lynch’s notepads will be donated to a museum somewhere, as many of Bob Dylan’s have been, so we can peruse them!


He seems like the kind of guy who'd put in his will that they are to be shredded.

And yes, it's that printing studio/exhibition space I mean. "Plume of Desire" was a lithography exhibition.
Last edited by Soolsma on Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Ray Wise?

Postby Mordeen » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:06 pm

Soolsma wrote:Paris, one of the most important art capitols, is the cradle of surrealism. Pretty sure that has something to with that scene being placed there. Lynch owns a club there. He has an affiliation to the city.

There are also some more deliberate reality vs. fiction shenanigans going on there: the inclusion of Monica Bellucci, Lynch had an art exhibition "Plume of Desire" in that very street. Some say that it's that very exhibition space which Cole turns to look at. Possibly making him/Lynch the dreamer?

In Lynch's original handwritten notes. (one of the very first "leaks", obviously deliberate) There was even something about a scene in which we'd enter a TV and the film would become the reality above the description of the Bellucci dream. Take a close look:
Image

No, this had nothing to do with tax cuts. This was one of Lynch's most creative ideas he just had to roll with. If you ask me, the man probably had a real life Bellucci dream whilst deep in the writing process and pondering over Cooper's character. One of the most powerful scenes in the Return for sure.

Oh boy, would it be great to see more of that notebook. A true goldmine of Twin Peaks secrets. Too bad it's probably the last thing we'd ever be able to lay our hands on.

This is why we poke at each other, Soolzie. You get it. I was actually the person that reported this leak to Sabrina because it wasn't under the radar. The fucked up dichotomy of posting spoilers but not revealing the WHOLE FUCKING POINT of The Return was a challenge.

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