Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group

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Xavi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Xavi »

What matters is what’s onscreen.
So, lets discuss what's on screen then. What kind of label people tend to stick on Season 3 does not interest me at all. What I see is a rhythmic representation of a very complicated story, where each time the story arrives in a sort of "shared dream-place," that is known as the Roadhouse. The Roadhouse scenes give me the impression of dealing with a "mind trying to process the experiences of what happened before," in a poetical way, that is.
Pause a little while and think about the possible underlying meaning of that floor sweeping event, when hardly anything happened. The music and the lyrics (if present) reveal so much.

In short, the Roadhouse performances are well chosen, embedded parts, that enhance the story of Season 3, and they are not some random pieces of music for just enclosing episodes.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

Just because it's an interesting and fun thing to debate, I'll ramble...

I think intent matters more than the method of distribution, so Lynch/Frost writing it as a large chunk and shooting it like a film matters more than the fact it was broken up for television (in my eyes). TV was the only way this could have been shown, so it's simply the nature of the beast. So more than anything, what matters is what it feels like, and the overall lack of cliffhangers up until the very final parts as well as the "random" sequencing/shaping of the nonetheless steadily building narrative ensure that all scenes feel perfectly natural coming one after the other, notably including closing scenes and opening scenes seamlessly transitioning from one Part to the next, as though credits weren't even supposed to be there. So, that it was written/shot like a film, made by a filmmaker who (crucially for this debate, imo) directed the entire thing, has very few cliffhangers or standard episodes or self-contained episodes...all of that speaks to its status as a film, to me, one made with less attention paid to the individual chapters and more to the overall whole. Even Part 8 starts with 15 minutes that continue straight on from Part 7 before becoming what most would refer to as a "standalone" episode, even though the Atomic Bomb sequence is triggered by the emergence of Bob from Cooper's body (quite similar to how the asides in a film like Kill Bill (anime and training sequences) occur directly in response to some stimulus in the protagonist's story). To me, that feels like a natural event at that point in the narrative, and does not signal episodic television (Plus, as evidenced by the Tarantino examples, some films do have chapters and are still definitely films). Similarly, Part 18 feels not like a standalone, but as the final hour of an 18 hour film. That's how it all feels to me, especially early on, when none of the episodes resemble standard episodes of TV and each seamlessly bleeds into the next. At the very least I don't see how anyone could look at Parts 1 - 8, what with so many seamless segues from Part to Part and a total lack of signified cliffhangers, and say that it doesn't totally resemble a film that was simply broken into hour long chunks, or that a Part like 12, which was hated by so many upon airing for containing so little forward movement, is anything but a collection of scenes rather than an actual episode of TV as we know it (yes, it's built around themes, but opaque thematic assembly is in my experience a new way of putting together an hour of TV, which actually eventually reveals itself to be the guiding principle behind all 18 hours of The Return as a whole, more about theme than narrative). But that's just the way it feels to me, 100% filmlike, a continuous dream that is meant to be watched in as short amount of time as possible so as not to disrupt the dream. So I suppose it comes down to how it feels to the individual viewer, how seamless it all feels. Would this thing have been edited differently if it were being shown only in theaters? I'm sure some of it would have been, and I'd love to see that version. But that it wasn't included on the Blu-ray speaks more to me that Lynch already spent so much time editing it one way that it would be too time consuming to edit it another. Either way, to me it's still a film...as well as a Series. As well as something else entirely. Which is all a long winded way of saying: It was shot with a camera by a filmmaker and yet it's unclassifiable, so I don't care what anyone calls it, just as long as they don't put restrictions on what it's called.

And as far as objectivity goes regarding Sight and Sound determining what is and isn't a film, the precedents are all the looooooong films broken into chapters aired on TV by master filmmakers that routinely make films lists, ie Scenes From a Marriage, Dekalog, Berlin Alexanderplatz, etc. Twin Peaks: The Return is definitely part of that lineage, which is why I find it so odd that there's even a debate.

And I agree with Xavi about the Roadhouse sequences. They're so integral.
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Panapaok
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Panapaok »

Kyle just received a Golden Globe nomination! :)
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

Panapaok wrote:Kyle just received a Golden Globe nomination! :)
Kind of disappointed Twin Peaks did not get more than that one nomination, but since the TV ratings were so low, I guess I am not surprised.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

I half-expected the show to get panned a la FWWM last summer and now the critics love it, so I'll take whatever at this point.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

The original TP and The Elephant Man aside, DKL’s films don’t typically garner much awards-show attention. The show is living up to DKL’s usual MO, as I predicted: critically worshiped, a very modest financial success, and one or two awards nominations.
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

Yes I agree, my expectations are extremely low when it comes to movies/shows that I like winning at the awards ceremonies. Basically, almost none of my favorites in the theater or on TV have ever won any award.

The Good Place, which is another of my favorites this year and is also on a lot of TV critics' top 10 lists for 2017 was completely snubbed: 0 nominations.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by laughingpinecone »

I'm pleased as punch to see both Loving Vincent (please check out a trailer and collect your jaw at the end) and The Breadwinner (haven't watched it yet but it's by the team that made Secret of Kells and Song of the Sea, so that's as promising a pedigree as it gets) get some love in the animation category. That looks mostly sensible, and I hope Loving Vincent gets drowned in awards.

TV shows, though, I'd have some words. The Leftovers s3, aka the other winner of metacritic's aggregated list, was also snubbed, wasn't it? I personally found it head and shoulders above any of those nominations I've watched.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

laughingpinecone wrote:I'm pleased as punch to see both Loving Vincent (please check out a trailer and collect your jaw at the end) and The Breadwinner (haven't watched it yet but it's by the team that made Secret of Kells and Song of the Sea, so that's as promising a pedigree as it gets) get some love in the animation category. That looks mostly sensible, and I hope Loving Vincent gets drowned in awards.

TV shows, though, I'd have some words. The Leftovers s3, aka the other winner of metacritic's aggregated list, was also snubbed, wasn't it? I personally found it head and shoulders above any of those nominations I've watched.
Yes, I don't think anyone should feel bad about Twin Peaks lack of a nomination when they realize that The Leftovers also wasn't nominated. How that show - brave and bold but also full of basically objectively great performances and production value - continues to get snubbed is flat-out baffling. But it's just the nature of the beast with these awards bodies - some things remain underseen, and things, such as Leftovers/Twin Peaks, simply go beyond this moment (a moment which Stranger Things, Game of Thrones, The Handmaiden and Big Little Lies are linked to in various ways) and are inadequately represented.
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

LateReg wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:I'm pleased as punch to see both Loving Vincent (please check out a trailer and collect your jaw at the end) and The Breadwinner (haven't watched it yet but it's by the team that made Secret of Kells and Song of the Sea, so that's as promising a pedigree as it gets) get some love in the animation category. That looks mostly sensible, and I hope Loving Vincent gets drowned in awards.

TV shows, though, I'd have some words. The Leftovers s3, aka the other winner of metacritic's aggregated list, was also snubbed, wasn't it? I personally found it head and shoulders above any of those nominations I've watched.
Yes, I don't think anyone should feel bad about Twin Peaks lack of a nomination when they realize that The Leftovers also wasn't nominated. How that show - brave and bold but also full of basically objectively great performances and production value - continues to get snubbed is flat-out baffling. But it's just the nature of the beast with these awards bodies - some things remain underseen, and things, such as Leftovers/Twin Peaks, simply go beyond this moment (a moment which Stranger Things, Game of Thrones, The Handmaiden and Big Little Lies are linked to in various ways) and are inadequately represented.
Let's face it, there is an industry politics element that plays a role too. I think the politics work in Lynch's favor in France for example, but not necessarily in the U.S.
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krishnanspace
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by krishnanspace »

This is so sad.Games of thrones had the weakest season and it got nominated.Same with stranger things,it was just popcorn entertainment with all the stuff copied or referenced from the 80s.Twin peaks on the other hand was some serious art that made people think and question things.Lynch and Frost deserve some recognition.This is no less than Bollywood awards
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

krishnanspace wrote:This is so sad.Games of thrones had the weakest season and it got nominated.Same with stranger things,it was just popcorn entertainment with all the stuff copied or referenced from the 80s.Twin peaks on the other hand was some serious art that made people think and question things.Lynch and Frost deserve some recognition.This is no less than Bollywood awards
Hey glad to meet someone else who thought Stranger Things was overrated. I thought it was a well done production and entertaining to be sure, but it wasn't very memorable to me. It didn't really make me want to see Season 2.
Last edited by mtwentz on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Audrey Horne »

the Globes have always been in favor of Lynch, and he is on their radar... which sometimes a lot of other shows aren't. (there's just too many shows.)

But Mulholland Dr. and Lunch were nominated. And Peaks, Machlachlan, Laurie and Fenn were nominated (with three big wins).
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

Audrey Horne wrote:the Globes have always been in favor of Lynch, and he is on their radar... which sometimes a lot of other shows aren't. (there's just too many shows.)

But Mulholland Dr. and Lunch were nominated. And Peaks, Machlachlan, Laurie and Fenn were nominated (with three big wins).
Yes, that's why I was thinking the Globes were the only shot. I'd say there's no chance with the Emmys. Although, I will say that over time the Globes have become more mainstream minded. I remember back in 2006 when A History of Violence was nominated at the Globes, but not at the Oscars. Gradually, since then, I've found little reason to defend the Globes over the Oscars.
Last edited by LateReg on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Satisfied Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

Audrey Horne wrote:the Globes have always been in favor of Lynch, and he is on their radar... which sometimes a lot of other shows aren't. (there's just too many shows.)

But Mulholland Dr. and Lunch were nominated. And Peaks, Machlachlan, Laurie and Fenn were nominated (with three big wins).
Ahhh interesting, just looked it up and did not notice that it was foreign press members that are on the Golden Globe committees. So it does appear to be somewhat of a snub of Twin Peaks this year.
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