Differing Views on The Return

Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne

Locked

To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Still profoundly disappointed - my feelings have not changed.
7
30%
More disappointed.
5
22%
No longer profoundly disappointed but still disappointed.
1
4%
No longer disappointed at all but still have mixed feelings about The Return.
1
4%
My feelings have softened but not sure what I think of it.
2
9%
I need to rewatch before I vote.
1
4%
I need to rewatch it before I vote here, but I think I'm still going to be very disappointed.
2
9%
I need to rewatch it before I vote here, but I think I'm still going to be somewhat but less disappointed.
0
No votes
I'm neutral.
0
No votes
I now like The Return, but still have some mixed feelings.
1
4%
I now love The Return completely.
1
4%
Other - explain in comments.
2
9%
 
Total votes: 23
User avatar
JackwithOneEye
Great Northern Member
Posts: 771
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:26 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by JackwithOneEye »

the only hard documentation I see is the 389 pages in copyright database.

I feel like whatever people say in interviews is faulty memory mixed with exaggeration, when Peter Deming said 550 pages to Roger Deakins on the podacast, I think he was trying to express it was big and thick, and he wasnt under oath, so he chose 550.
IcedOver
RR Diner Member
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:31 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by IcedOver »

I was in the "profoundly disappointed" camp for most of the start of the show. I got into the groove for a while but turned out still pretty disappointed. I chose number 5 but could easily say 6 or 7. Even though I rewatched most of the parts during the run two or more times, I haven't done a full rewatch or watched a part in full since 9/2017. I own the BD but literally haven't gotten to rewatching it.

My feelings towards it have definitely softened, but for every scene I like and go back to sometimes to watch, I could probably name 1-2 other scenes or elements that did not work for me. I haven't been thinking about it too much over the past year, but for a while my feelings on its themes and intent had coalesced to considering it very unique. However, often when I think about its absurdist nature, I wonder if what is on screen is the optimal way things could have turned out. The digital cinematography is something I feel was a mistake, and that hasn't changed. It should have been shot on film or with a camcorder "Inland" style, anything to soften and warm up the image.
I DON'T FEEL GOOD!!!!!
User avatar
sylvia_north
RR Diner Member
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by sylvia_north »

Haven’t rewatched, nor have my three other die-hard since the beginning fan friends that aren’t on the board. We consider it, then agree it’s a definite nah. It’s just not compelling. The mystery isn’t compelling. I only watched Inland Empire a handful of times including twice in the theater, and dutifully engaged with the theorizing, coming to some interesting conclusions but Return feels all superficial to me, style (and I’m being generous as so much of it looked awful) without substance, although I liked seeing Sarah and Laura again and I’m satisfied with their story arcs.

So much of Return is straight up annoying it would just make me angry to even have on in the background.
I wasn’t able to find Q2’s five part fan edit. If anyone would like to hook me up, please inbox. I’m curious about seeing just the Dougie Vegas subplot as it’s own thing. I’d even pay for a disc or thumb rip. Q2’s All Killer No Filler has been the only way I’ll watch s1&2 for years. It might change my opinion to see a competent editor’s reworking.
Too Old to Die Young > TP S03
User avatar
BOB1
RR Diner Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Poland

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by BOB1 »

I've always considered myself the less profoundly disappointed of the Profoundly Disappointed community. Yet, I belonged there and still do. What more can I say than - I have never forced myself to rewatch all of it. "Force myself" is actually the key word: disliking a lot of The Return is less of an issue than the fact that I just don't feel like coming back there :-(

Then, there are a lot of 'buts'. A lot of scenes I truly liked, a couple of episodes really good. And my biggest uncertainty of all - what about that last episode?. Because this one doesn't fit to what I wrote above. I definitely AM TEMPTED to come back to it and it's like... I don't dare. Watching the last episode was a traumatic experience. From the neverending driving scenes to the painful sex scenes, from the complete mess-up about who is who, to the totally frustrating and shocking and incomprehensible ending... It kind of left me shaking and I have never seen it since THEN, whenever it was premiered. Over the next weeks and months, however, I was getting more and more convinced that it just might have been... the best part of all The Return :? The one where David Lynch really did take his artistic licence to an extreme, even more than the atomic bomb mumbo-jumbo of Episode 8, which - as unique as it was - seemed after all more predictable and lynch-like than this Last Episode where well at least I was as knocked out of ANYTHING I had ever known about Lynch as never before.

So yeah, it was a cool thing to include in your poll the options "I need to rewatch before I vote' and I gladly voted it :D but as much as I don't really believe any of the 1-17 episodes would surprise me (I did rewatch parts or even whole episodes here and there), I will know nothing as long as I don't dare to face the demons of Episode 18 one day!
Bobi 1 Kenobi

B. Beware
O. Of
B. BOB
User avatar
The Gazebo
RR Diner Member
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by The Gazebo »

"I need to rewatch it before I vote here, but I think I'm still going to be very disappointed."

And good morning/evening to you all. Four years pass quickly. After getting on with my life back in 2017, The Return popped up in my head a few weeks ago, and I decided to do a rewatch of a random episode from the second half of the show - the long, arduous slog after giving up. However, the show was no longer available on the streaming service that provided the original broadcast in 2017, so I guess that's a wrap for me.

I had a quick glance through my own posts from 2017, and it seems I was relatively satisfied with the later episodes, while at the same time bemoaning the fact that the final 90 minutes had almost nothing to do with the preceding 16 episodes. Four years after watching it, I can only echo sylvia_north a few posts above me: "It's just not compelling". I'm not completely ruling out a softening attitude if I ever were to rewatch it, but at the moment I have no desire to let the French escort, Ike the Spike, arm-wrestling Mr C or Green Glove steal more valuable minutes of my life. I suppose the possibility of an improved audiovisual experience on a bigger screen exists, considering I watched the entire original run on my laptop. I always liked the soundscapes of the show.

BTW, I see the total number of votes is relatively low compared to the traffic in the disappointed group four years ago, and I guess most people have just moved on. Nevertheless, thank you to Jonah for creating the poll and for continuing moderating the forum.
User avatar
Jonah
Global Moderator
Posts: 2815
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:39 am

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Jonah »

Thanks for responding, The Gazebo. Your take is interesting and I appreciate the kind words too.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
Kilmoore
RR Diner Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:20 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Kilmoore »

The Gazebo wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:55 am BTW, I see the total number of votes is relatively low compared to the traffic in the disappointed group four years ago, and I guess most people have just moved on.
I wish I could. I mean, it's borderline unhealthy for me to continue feeling so dissappointed and betrayed by S3. Twin Peaks is so important to me. Or at least it was. Then S3 reminded me that it's just a TV show, and in its directionless bleakness remininded me that everything is shit, including Twin Peaks.
User avatar
The Gazebo
RR Diner Member
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by The Gazebo »

Kilmoore wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:12 pm I wish I could. I mean, it's borderline unhealthy for me to continue feeling so dissappointed and betrayed by S3. Twin Peaks is so important to me. Or at least it was. Then S3 reminded me that it's just a TV show, and in its directionless bleakness remininded me that everything is shit, including Twin Peaks.
I hear you. For me, the disappointment was spending a whole summer trying to "get it" (and ultimately failing), and I decided there and then that I would move on and find other interesting things in life.

The thing we share, I think, is a deep regret that we weren't able to experience the same kind of emotions as in 1990. I knew beforehand that the show would never look exactly the same as back then (cue "you were just looking for a nostalgia trip" criticism levelled against us), but it's the emotional connection that was missing here. All of us in the disappointed group know there are other TV shows that are well-made and can provide a good viewing experience, but this was the one we were waiting for. This was where characters, scenes, imagery, music, mood, darkness, mystery, intrigue and suspense would form a magical landscape beyond the sum of its parts under the watchful eye of the two geniuses (of which at least one insisted he loved the town and its characters), and where we would annoy our friends and immediate family by not talking about anything else than the new Twin Peaks season. Well, in my opinion we got some really great scenes and a pretty decent soundtrack, some half-decent episodes, but all the other ingredients were missing. Rain Man was waddling around in bright, sunny Vegas. 95% of the original characters were reduced to cameo appearances, replaced by pseudo-intellectual supernatural bollox and Lynch's closest allies like Laura Dern. I wrote in a post back in the day that this probably wouldn't change my outlook on the original series, but I guess it has. I don't think I've done a rewatch of season 1&2 since 2017, and I have no immediate plans to do so.

If anyone from the "other side" is reading this, I'm happy for you, and I wish I were one of you. It wasn't to be, and it's ok.
User avatar
mtwentz
Lodge Member
Posts: 2185
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by mtwentz »

sorry have to interrupt here, everyone entitled to their opinion. The idea of the old characters being reduced to cameos is just not true.

The only real cameos were Mike Nelson and Betty Briggs.

Sylvia and Leland each had two scenes. Leland was a disappointment for everyone but I think would not qualify as a cameo.
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
User avatar
Jonah
Global Moderator
Posts: 2815
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:39 am

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Jonah »

Leland's two-line appearance was so short it wasn't even a cameo.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
User avatar
mtwentz
Lodge Member
Posts: 2185
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by mtwentz »

Jonah wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:02 pm Leland's two-line appearance was so short it wasn't even a cameo.
I'll add Leland and Sylvia as Cameos. And Jumping Man, even though that was a small role in FWWM as well.

Oh yeah and Johnny :-)
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
User avatar
Henrys Hair
RR Diner Member
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:28 am
Contact:

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Henrys Hair »

While it's not strictly true that the old cast were reduced to cameos, it's certainly true that they had smaller parts this time round.

Cast from S1/S2 opening credits who appeared in the Return: Cooper, Shelly, Bobby, Ben, Audrey, Doc Hayward, Norma, James, Big Ed, Lucy & Leland. Apart from the variations of Cooper (and possibly Lucy), all had noticeably smaller parts in the Return (sadly unavoidable in Doc Hayward's case, and I'm just glad we got that last scene with Warren Frost).

As for the recurring cast in the original, Gordon Cole & Albert were as close as the Return got to having lead characters, and I reckon Hawk, Andy, Sarah Palmer, Dr Jacoby & The Log Lady had roughly similar sized roles as they had the first time round, although in Jacoby's case it really feels like the scenes were all shot in one go with limited interaction with other characters (I think his only interactions are with the truck driver who delivers his shovels and Nadine outside her drape shop).

Whether the newcomers with bigger roles (Diane, Janey-E, Richard Horne, The Mitchum Brothers etc) made up for having less time with the original cast is a matter of personal taste, but I can't really blame anyone for wanting to see more of the original cast and don't think it's got anything to do with only wanting cheery pie and nostalgia. I mean, given the choice between Michael Ontkean and Jim Belushi for who they'd rather see in a hypothetical season 4, I reckon most Twin Peaks fans, including the most ardent fans of the Return, would go for Ontkean. (And I say that as someone who liked Jim Belushi in the Return much more than I'd expected to!)
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Lodge Member
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Audrey Horne »

I think that had to do with the nature of the story they constructed prior to making the announcement. Most likely the spine was just the adventure of the Cooper character, and then they found out which actors would say yes, and then formulated mini plots around them.

This of course makes practical sense when they first started collaborating again… basically making a new story with a familiar element (Cooper). However, there were a bunch of actors in their circle that had made it well known to them that they were chomping at the bit to return prior to 2014.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
User avatar
sylvia_north
RR Diner Member
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by sylvia_north »

Kilmoore wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:12 pm everything is shit, including Twin Peaks.
Put it on my gravestone.
Too Old to Die Young > TP S03
User avatar
mtwentz
Lodge Member
Posts: 2185
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by mtwentz »

Twin Peaks Fans 2013: 'God what we wouldn't give to see just one scene, please just ONE SCENE, with Ed and Norma together again. That's all we ask, is one scene and we won't complain after that, promise'

Twin Peaks Fans 2017: What?! Only TWO scenes with Ed and Norma? What a ripoff!!!! What a disappointment! Screw you Frost and Lynch!'
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
Locked