Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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LateReg
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I can’t remember if this has been said (aloud) before, but in the Jason S. behind the scenes film for Part 1, the Fireman scene “starts” (since they shot it in reverse) with Cooper shaking (presumably having just manifested), then looking around at the place, then the Fireman entering and sitting. The Fireman then says, “Beware the thirteenth sycamore.”

Could this be referring to the tree by the gold pond? Is it possible this isn’t a “good” entryway despite appearances? Not only does the doppel get trapped there (presumably by the Fireman’s hand), but good Cooper’s plans go awry when he tries to bring Laura there.
I was going to say that it may be the Evolution of the Arm's doppelganger. But, going off what we discussed recently, it would appear that Cooper meets with the Fireman sometime after the Arm's doppelganger banishes him to nonexistence, possibly directly before he arrives in the basement of the Great Northern (given the reappearance of the pin...I think). So it makes sense that it would be that seemingly golden sycamore.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

LateReg wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I can’t remember if this has been said (aloud) before, but in the Jason S. behind the scenes film for Part 1, the Fireman scene “starts” (since they shot it in reverse) with Cooper shaking (presumably having just manifested), then looking around at the place, then the Fireman entering and sitting. The Fireman then says, “Beware the thirteenth sycamore.”

Could this be referring to the tree by the gold pond? Is it possible this isn’t a “good” entryway despite appearances? Not only does the doppel get trapped there (presumably by the Fireman’s hand), but good Cooper’s plans go awry when he tries to bring Laura there.
I was going to say that it may be the Evolution of the Arm's doppelganger. But, going off what we discussed recently, it would appear that Cooper meets with the Fireman sometime after the Arm's doppelganger banishes him to nonexistence, possibly directly before he arrives in the basement of the Great Northern (given the reappearance of the pin...I think). So it makes sense that it would be that seemingly golden sycamore.
The connection to EotA crossed my mind too. There’s not any reason it can’t refer to both the gold pond and EotA and/or his doppel, given the clear visual link.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I can’t remember if this has been said (aloud) before, but in the Jason S. behind the scenes film for Part 1, the Fireman scene “starts” (since they shot it in reverse) with Cooper shaking (presumably having just manifested), then looking around at the place, then the Fireman entering and sitting. The Fireman then says, “Beware the thirteenth sycamore.”

Could this be referring to the tree by the gold pond? Is it possible this isn’t a “good” entryway despite appearances? Not only does the doppel get trapped there (presumably by the Fireman’s hand), but good Cooper’s plans go awry when he tries to bring Laura there.
I was going to say that it may be the Evolution of the Arm's doppelganger. But, going off what we discussed recently, it would appear that Cooper meets with the Fireman sometime after the Arm's doppelganger banishes him to nonexistence, possibly directly before he arrives in the basement of the Great Northern (given the reappearance of the pin...I think). So it makes sense that it would be that seemingly golden sycamore.
The connection to EotA crossed my mind too. There’s not any reason it can’t refer to both the gold pond and EotA and/or his doppel, given the clear visual link.
BTW, it feels nicely apropos to me that this scene was shot on Leap Day (2/29/2016). That gels nicely with the sense of time displacement/confusion, as well as the idea of there being an extra of something (sycamores, days of the month).
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Pinky
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Post by Pinky »

What does Hawk see at Glastonbury Grove, and does it have anything to do with the knowing nod he gives Cooper in episode 17?

Do the curtains of the Red Room appear at the appointed times regardless of whether someone is going in or not? I can't remember. Without going in, is Hawk able to observe anything, or can we guess that by his being there, we're meant to assume he met someone coming out? And did he just forget it like they did when they saw the portal at Jackrabbit's Palace?
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mtwentz
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

Pinky wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:45 pm What does Hawk see at Glastonbury Grove, and does it have anything to do with the knowing nod he gives Cooper in episode 17?

Do the curtains of the Red Room appear at the appointed times regardless of whether someone is going in or not? I can't remember. Without going in, is Hawk able to observe anything, or can we guess that by his being there, we're meant to assume he met someone coming out? And did he just forget it like they did when they saw the portal at Jackrabbit's Palace?
I am not in the camp that Hawk really saw anything except the curtains and even that he might have assumed was some kind of optical illusions.

But to me the purpose of that whole scene was to subvert our expectations. Everyone and their brother thought Hawk would rescue Cooper from the Lodge. So let's just bring Hawk within a few feet of the entrance, and then cut off the scene and never tell you what happens.

I love it!

BTW, began my first rewatch of The Return in a few years, in anticipation of (maybe) something new being announced.
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AXX°N N.
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Post by AXX°N N. »

Yeah, and one musn't forget that, if anything, Hawk not entering the lodge is probably best for his character. Log Lady was only telling him to watch, not advising him to enter the sycamore grove or take it any further than observation. She herself is someone who positions herself as an observer and there are even many lines about how cautious she is about fire. Taken all together, this points to the "Cooper is overambitious in the way of Icarus" reading. Sure, Windom was forcing his hand when he entered, but on his own volition Cooper plunges into the deep end when the time comes.
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