Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

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Jonah
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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JackwithOneEye wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:38 pm Kylie Minogue's Locomotion.
Little Eva's original version! Not Minogue's version (which I loved as a kid). Though at first I was like "what????? I don't remember that" and had to Google it lol.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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JackwithOneEye wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:38 pm This Mortal Coil he couldn't license in BV, and turned out to be blessing, we got Julee Cruise instead.
I didn't know that. So he couldn't get them for BV but later could for LH?
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Pinky wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:56 pm
JackwithOneEye wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:38 pm I agree with you 100% Reindeer.

I think these scraps are not much. it's an 18 hour show. I don't think there's much leftover.

and If he needed to license an outtake from CBS, David Lynch is not a student, he can get the money. even in his smaller scale projects, Nina Simone's Sinnerman was in Inland Empire, Kylie Minogue's Locomotion.

This Mortal Coil he couldn't license in BV, and turned out to be blessing, we got Julee Cruise instead.
Little Eva will be spinning in her grave!
:lol: true!
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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A few thoughts:

If Unrecorded Night/Wisteria is a TP continuation (either in full or in part) do you think Lynch will bring back some of the characters sorely missing in The Return?

Will he completely disregard the stuff Mark wrote about the characters in his books and have them saying/doing different things with zero regard and continuity towards their outcomes in the books - or will he take those arcs into consideration (I know he hasn't read the books but Sabrina or someone might fill him in)?

Do you think Lynch has already written most of the copyrighted scripts himself or only treatments for them?

Do you think Lynch needs a co-writer (MF or someone else) to help him in the world of TP or how do you think a fully Lynch scripted and directed Peaks (something none of us ever thought we'd see) would look like with zero input from MF?

I know these are questions without answers, but just wondering what people think.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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I do not believe Lynch cares what’s in the books or would use anything. I’m paraphrasing, but he once said something like, “That’s Mark’s history of Twin Peaks. Not mine.” For instance, if he were to theoretically continue on from the end of TR post-scream, I think it would be pretty abstract, as opposed to Frost’s more straightforward “parallel universe” approach.

It’s funny to think back on the fairly direct hints we had at TR gearing up for production (Lynch asking for McGill’s phone number on Twitter, Ontkean asking if anyone knew where Harry’s jacket was). Nothing like that yet this time.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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For some reason, I find it difficult to believe Lynch has already planned out and completely scripted all episodes of Unrecorded Night/Wisteria that have been copyrighted without a co-writer.

I wonder what a continuity nightmare it will be (for fans) if the characters go in wildly different directions than the books - or do most fans consider the MF books as an alternative take or less than strict canon?

In terms of hints like those, maybe they're being more careful this time around - or there's simply no need for that as Lynch/Sabrina know how to contact them all now that they got back in touch.

There has been arguably more social media teasing than before - at least there was up to about a year and a bit ago before it stopped, then the recent wisteria posts.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Jonah wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:26 am I find it difficult to believe Lynch has already planned out and completely scripted all episodes of Unrecorded Night/Wisteria that have been copyrighted without a co-writer.

I wonder what a continuity nightmare it will be if the characters go in wildly different directions than the books - or do most fans consider the MF books as less than strict canon?
I mean, Mark’s books completely changed all sorts of backstories and S2 storylines from the show, so there’s already a ton of contradiction just with the existing material. I think there’s generally been a consensus in the fan community that the books are “soft canon” (“Bobby killed a guy” being totally different in FWWM vs. TSDoLP, etc.). For me, the filmed material takes precedent.

And there’s really not THAT much to contradict. TFD essentially ends in the same place as the show. The only thing it adds is Tammy saying that newspapers from 1989 now show that Laura went missing as opposed to being killed, and this idea of a parallel universe. I don’t think it’s a huge deal if Lynch does something different.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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What was Bobby killed a guy in the books? I still haven't read them - I think they look beautiful and I've read bits and pieces on fandom (which includes them in most of the character descriptions) so while some of the ideas in the books (such as the one I just learned about - the Norma/Big Ed marriage in front of the Big Log) I quite like, I'm not super interested in them myself, though I may yet read them one day. I think I would have preferred them had they been a direct novel or had we not gotten a filmed continuation.

Do you see Lynch scripting an entire new show himself without a co-writer, especially if it's TP? Think it's been a while since he's scripted a major project himself, unless you count Inland Empire, and a lot of that was unscripted, I believe.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Jonah wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:41 am What was Bobby killed a guy in the books?
It was a drug deal gone wrong as in the movie, but totally different circumstances. Bobby, Laura and Leo go to some house in the middle of nowhere to make a buy, and Laura steals a kilo of the guys’ cocaine and hides it in her skirt. A big shootout happens, and they drive off. One guy manages to climb into their truck bed and is struggling with Leo, so Bobby shoots the guy.
Do you see Lynch scripting an entire new show himself without a co-writer, especially if it's TP? Think it's been a while since he's scripted a major project himself, unless you count Inland Empire, and a lot of that was unscripted, I believe.
Yes. I think people have always underestimated Lynch as a writer. I personally have no worries about his scripting abilities. He’s never let me down. YMMV of course.

INLAND EMPIRE was scripted, just not all at once. He started out writing and shooting standalone scenes as they came to him, then eventually found the connective tissue and completed a full feature script that tied everything together.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Thanks. I could see that process he used for Inland Empire coming to the fore on the new show, but that means the scripts he's copyrighted aren't complete - maybe one is but the rest are either brief treatments or placeholders. I just don't see them all being pre-scripted, but maybe. He scripted BV, which had a very coherent - imo - script. This would be his first time going TP alone, if this is in fact a TP continuation. He even had Engels as a co-writer for FWWM. He did throw out a lot of the script for E29 and went it alone, but even then he had a blueprint to follow.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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My hunch is that he has full scripts (albeit some/all could be more a sketchy blue print like the Eraserhead script where the story was more in his head than on the page). But who knows, the way he writes seems to change/evolve depending on the project to some extent. I don’t think the copyright filing mentioned a page count, right?

I can’t see Netflix booking studio space on the basis of him saying “Don’t worry, I’ll wing it on the day.” I doubt even Lynch has enough faith in himself to completely make up a day’s shoot on the spot (it happened on E29 out of necessity because he hated the script, not because he wanted to work that way). Of course, he may improvise plenty, but I imagine both he and Netflix would want to have actual scripted material prepared to avoid the entire cast and crew standing around in a rented studio waiting on Lynch's writers’ block to pass. This is different from IE, where he was working on his own schedule over several years with a loyal skeleton crew whenever he felt like shooting.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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my two cents on the above -

a) Lynch as storyteller. Yeah, I don't think he necessarily needs a co-writer.

Mark Frost in the Greg Olson book says Lynch is not a great storyteller, but Lynch wrote Blue Velvet by himself, I find that to be a storyteller's movie.
it's as instantly engrossing, and suspenseful as a Hitchock movie like Rear Window, if not more so.

it very definitely follows Joseph Campbellian hero's journey beats. ordinary world -> finding the severed ear > off to Oz. It's a great hook.

Even in some of his early work, The Grandmother, Lynch has strong storytelling. You feel for the kid, and his wanting to be loved, and not getting it from his parents.

I don't think Barry Gifford contributed to the screenplay of Wild at Heart, at least not credited, I read the novel, but I thought Lynch really enhanced the storytelling with some of the flashbacks/ backstory, with Sailor's rejection of Lula's mother in the bathroom, and the film had more clarity in that regard than in prose. it's been around 30 years since I read it, but that's what I recall.

Inland Empire - you could argue what is dream, what is reality, it's open to interpretation certainly,
but there is a concrete floor with the storytelling foundation - The Phantom is the villain, and Nicky/Sue is protagonist/ sympathetic
which is pretty clear.
There are films like El Topo, and Holy Mountain, I find more impenetrable than Inland Empire, and far less storytelling friendly.

b) licensing - oh, I wasn't aware it wasn't Kylie's version of locomotion in IE, my mistake, but I would still guess it was someone's else's IP and not PD, and had to licensed.

Fred Caruso who produced BV, was I believe friendly with Angelo from some previous projects, and was the big proponent for involving Angelo more than just coaching Isabella's vocals. The amount of money it would have cost to license This Mortal Coil, Caruso was insistent wasn't in the budget.

Maybe if Lynch had tightened his belt and not shot all the scenes with Jeffrey at college, he woulda had more cash on hand for Mortal Coil.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Mr. Reindeer wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:27 am My hunch is that he has full scripts (albeit some/all could be more a sketchy blue print like the Eraserhead script where the story was more in his head than on the page). But who knows, the way he writes seems to change/evolve depending on the project to some extent. I don’t think the copyright filing mentioned a page count, right?

I can’t see Netflix booking studio space on the basis of him saying “Don’t worry, I’ll wing it on the day.” I doubt even Lynch has enough faith in himself to completely make up a day’s shoot on the spot (it happened on E29 out of necessity because he hated the script, not because he wanted to work that way). Of course, he may improvise plenty, but I imagine both he and Netflix would want to have actual scripted material prepared to avoid the entire cast and crew standing around in a rented studio waiting on Lynch's writers’ block to pass. This is different from IE, where he was working on his own schedule over several years with a loyal skeleton crew whenever he felt like shooting.
Good point - yeah, so it's probably fairly scripted/sketched out then with room to improvise, like the script for E8 but more detailed maybe. Do you think if he had a co-writer or someone helping him with scripting/typing, they'd necessarily be credited in the copyright filings or would it be added later? I think Engels was mentioned on the copyright filing for FWWM.
JackwithOneEye wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:28 am my two cents on the above -

a) Lynch as storyteller. Yeah, I don't think he necessarily needs a co-writer.

Mark Frost in the Greg Olson book says Lynch is not a great storyteller, but Lynch wrote Blue Velvet by himself, I find that to be a storyteller's movie.
it's as instantly engrossing, and suspenseful as a Hitchock movie like Rear Window, if not more so.

it very definitely follows Joseph Campbellian hero's journey beats. ordinary world -> finding the severed ear > off to Oz. It's a great hook.

Even in some of his early work, The Grandmother, Lynch has strong storytelling. You feel for the kid, and his wanting to be loved, and not getting it from his parents.

I don't think Barry Gifford contributed to the screenplay of Wild at Heart, at least not credited, I read the novel, but I thought Lynch really enhanced the storytelling with some of the flashbacks/ backstory, with Sailor's rejection of Lula's mother in the bathroom, and the film had more clarity in that regard than in prose. it's been around 30 years since I read it, but that's what I recall.

Inland Empire - you could argue what is dream, what is reality, it's open to interpretation certainly,
but there is a concrete floor with the storytelling foundation - The Phantom is the villain, and Nicky/Sue is protagonist/ sympathetic
which is pretty clear.
There are films like El Topo, and Holy Mountain, I find more impenetrable than Inland Empire, and far less storytelling friendly.

b) licensing - oh, I wasn't aware it wasn't Kylie's version of locomotion in IE, my mistake, but I would still guess it was someone's else's IP and not PD, and had to licensed.

Fred Caruso who produced BV, was I believe friendly with Angelo from some previous projects, and was the big proponent for involving Angelo more than just coaching Isabella's vocals. The amount of money it would have cost to license This Mortal Coil, Caruso was insistent wasn't in the budget.

Maybe if Lynch had tightened his belt and not shot all the scenes with Jeffrey at college, he woulda had more cash on hand for Mortal Coil.
Really great points about BV which I agree with, and also some excellent points about IE.
Last edited by Jonah on Fri May 07, 2021 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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JackwithOneEye wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:28 am

I don't think Barry Gifford contributed to the screenplay of Wild at Heart, at least not credited, I read the novel, but I thought Lynch really enhanced the storytelling with some of the flashbacks/ backstory, with Sailor's rejection of Lula's mother in the bathroom, and the film had more clarity in that regard than in prose. it's been around 30 years since I read it, but that's what I recall.
I think that’s all accurate. I read the books a few years ago and posted a comparison here: http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=62218#p62218

In terms of Lynch’s writing, what he did in Mulholland Drive is just stunning. He took something that was one thing, and managed to find a completely different thing inside it that feels like it was always meant to be there. I don’t think he could talk to you articulately about Campbell and the Odyssey like Frost can, but he’s got a terrific intuition for this stuff. It’s funny to me that Frost sells him short in this regard. (Frost also hated Mulholland Drive when it came out IIRC, but seems warmer to it in the Bushman book I think.)
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Jonah wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:33 am Do you think if he had a co-writer or someone helping him with scripting/typing, they'd necessarily be credited in the copyright filings or would it be added later? I think Engels was mentioned on the copyright filing for FWWM.
Oh, I’m sure someone typed it for him lol. Lynch often says he can’t type (I think he just refuses to learn). It was probably a mixture of him handwriting and dictating to an assistant. But if the person was just transcribing, they wouldn’t be credited.

If anyone had contributed substantively (by actually adding material), I imagine that person would want to be included on the copyright filing and would be pretty pissed not to be. So I think Lynch is going it alone.
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