Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

[Ickles]

Sabrina, if you're reading this please give us a little nugget of a hint so we have something else to talk about for 2 pages. Maybe dye your hair again?

[Histeria]

Fine.

What does 1977's Handy Man by James Taylor have to do with anything about anything?

[Rudagger]

With all due respect, go back to the hole you crawled out from under.

Excuse me????



You start calling me names, just because we have a difference of opinion (in a debate that I didn't even start and that I didn't want to happen, precisely because of this reason)??

After the past four years that have shown the giant brightest spotlight on racism since the Rodney King days, I really don't feel the need to be polite to people who suggest diversity is a bad thing. I could call you worse names, but, I won't because I won't put that on the mods. But, frankly, I think you're probably at least a little bit racist, otherwise the notion wouldn't discomfort you so.

I really hope mods shut your shit down (and I'm completely fine with them also then deleting my replies). It's 2021 ffs. Minorities deserve representation, grow up and deal with it.

[Rhodes]

to people who suggest diversity is a bad thing. .

WTF????

Can you stop this nonsense please?

[Rudagger]

to people who suggest diversity is a bad thing. .

WTF????

Can you stop this nonsense please?

Excuse me, you know exactly what you're saying when you say the words: "Diversity terror". Stop playing ignorant. I think this mentality is dated, and it's depressing to see it on this forum. Grow up.

'Fix your hearts or die'.

[enumbs]

Allright, this discussion is not healthy for me.

Let's get back on topic. As I said, talking politics is not allowed here, so let's not engage in provocative statements that are indeed very political.

(Although it is absurd that I have to stress it, I want to say for the record that I befriended and slept with people of all races, and I don't have any opinion about the ethnic background of actors in a Lynch-production).

It’s totally fair to suggest that a more diverse cast would be a good thing though. As an opinion, that shouldn’t be more political than a person saying they’d like more focus on the town of Twin Peaks or the Odessa-verse. Diversity is not actually a major concern for me as a viewer, but people should be allowed to talk about it without the subject being deemed “political”.

[Rhodes]

It's 2021 ffs. After the past four years thaMinorities deserve representation, grow up and deal with it.

Nobody deserves representation in art. Blacks don't and whites don't. It's all up to the artist.

[Rhodes]

It’s totally fair to suggest that a more diverse cast would be a good thing though. As an opinion, that shouldn’t be more political than a person saying they’d like more focus on the town of Twin Peaks or the Odessa-verse. Diversity is not actually a major concern for me as a viewer, but people should be allowed to talk about it without the subject being deemed “political”.

Yet, in artistic circles, there is a bit of a double standard and a liberal bias.

I notice I am more heavily criticized for my view than others despite:
- not starting the debate
- not representing others incorrectly
- not calling names

I doubt that if I behaved like Rudaggar, while advocating a white cast (which I am not!), my statement would be interpreted as non-political.

[enumbs]

It's 2021 ffs. After the past four years thaMinorities deserve representation, grow up and deal with it.

Nobody deserves representation in art. Blacks don't and whites don't. It's all up to the artist.

You don’t believe it’s all up to the artist though. Here is a quote from you:

“To think that Lynch really starts believing that he has to "improve" and correct the mistakes from Jade/Asian prostitute from IE, and that he deliberately includes a role for a minority that is also empowering and not stereotypical...... the thought is so heartbreaking and saddening.“

Here you outline a hypothetical situation in which Lynch chooses to write minorities differently, and you describe that as “heartbreaking”. When you claim to care about the artist it’s completely disingenuous; you just want media to reflect your politics and your prejudices.

[Rhodes]

No, not at all (as I explained at the time).

If Lynch has a passion for diversity, that's great. It could reflect in his work in a magnificent way. If however, he is under pressure to cast minorities (because we live in absurd times where someone who is not into "diversity politics" and obsessed with "diverse casting" is by many considered "somewhat racist"), that would indeed be a tragedy.

You put yourself at risk as an artist to cast an all-white group of friends, even though that is a very realistic situation. I don't think that is a healthy artistic climate.

[Rudagger]

It's 2021 ffs. After the past four years thaMinorities deserve representation, grow up and deal with it.

Nobody deserves representation in art. Blacks don't and whites don't. It's all up to the artist.

Ahhhh, I see. That's true, I guess, if systemic racism never affected perhaps how roles were cast. I mean, I don't think Lynch himself is a racist, he seems very empathetic. But the systems of Hollywood? Absolutely. I think of something like Dune .. where the Freman were freakin' Big Ed? There have been decades of soft spoken 'well, cast whites for this role, it's more marketable' 'hey, it'll help your budget if you cast so-and-so'. Those thoughts become implicit and part of the process, casting directors start passing books with more whites because 'well, we probably aren't going to cast minorities unless the character was explicitly noted as one ... and sometimes not even then anyway ..', and then hey 'well, there's not many minorities to even look at, all these artists are white, because so few become actors because so few found success because of the system that targets white actors .. so guess we'll keep casting white people!'.

So, yes, I think minorities *deserve* better representation in art. I don't think Lynch is infallible. And I think there's probably a fair argument to be made that The Return could've done better on the diversity front given it's a global and multi-dimensional story that somehow manages to have .. I want to say, one black person (Jade), one Asian person (the girl screaming in the Roadhouse), and one native American (Hawk).

[eyeboogers]

Rhodes, you probably don't realise that the tone with which you state your concerns is as divisive as that of the most extreme social justice warriors. There has obviously been a gigantic problem with representation both on and off screen - this needs to be fixed. And yes, you do have a point that this "fixing diversity representation by checklist" approach that many institutions are using these days, is not necessarily the most elegant approach. But take Lynch as an example, he is not going to accept a "This is the girl" command from any executive, with regards to his casting choices. But it seems that he is more thoughtful about his casting choices, he probably more often entertains the idea of whether a certain character could be played by someone who is not a white male. And that is a great first step.

Your notion that "the left" is the enemy of art and free speech is completely bonkers and without historical merit.

Histiria, a lot of people mention the casting of Jade to be unfortunate, but first and foremost Nafessa Williams was perfect in the role, and why not instead mention Ernie Hudson playing a clued-in Colonel. I also see a much bigger chance of Hudson returning, should there be more episodes.

[LateReg]

Okay, folks. Let's all calm down if we could (and if we can't then just tell me to go fook myself because I'm usually not one to plea for peace or limit conversation). I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouths, but I think there's a bit of exaggeration going on here that stems from passion. The way I interpret what Rhodes is saying is simply that if there's a mandate that doesn't really fit what an artist is going for, then that's a bad thing, full-stop. And that can sometimes extend to an artist doing things not because it's right for the art or because he's grown in some way, but because he feels pressure. Although such pressure can in certain circumstances lead to growth (as enumbs has pointed out in the past), I agree with what I perceive to be the basis of Rhodes' statement and am not looking deeper into it, or taking it as strictly about race or anything other thing.

Also, I'd like some real news and love all of you.

[Rudagger]

I forgot about Hudson! In my defense though, it is a small role. Would've been nice to see more of him (and that military angle in general, I quite liked the liason they sent: she kind of reminded me of Scully). But, that's kind of the nature of the thing.

[Histeria]

I don't think the Jade casting was unfortunate. She's awesome and she's a great character. That in isolation isn't the issue. Neither is the cast being mostly white, I already said that too has artistic merit.

But in context it's ill-judged. Also "best person for each role" is a cowardly cop out and I'm surprised to hear they've said this. I don't think he needs to explain or justify it. But if explanation is given then at least don't chat crap about how it's just "best actor for the role" as if that process is completely colorblind.

But what about the song in today's whether report.