What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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Mr. Strawberry
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

Post by Mr. Strawberry »

Not unpopular opinions by any means but likely minority ones:

01) I'm down with Season 2

Back in the day, I had zero problems with Season 2. Everything seemed endearing and interesting. Even when Andy and Dick were trespassing to get their hands on Little Nicky's file, I was 100% into it. In fact during that particular stretch of the season I remember feeling like the show was seriously taking its time, intentionally displaying all sorts of seemingly trivial discussions and bits of everyday life, as if trying to sit the viewer right in amongst the daily happenings of each resident, painting a complete picture of the town one vignette at a time. It was great!


02) I'm not down with Coop and Annie

I really identified with Cooper, being, at the time, a straight-laced, upright, virtuous, optimistic, detail-oriented, hard-working young guy, and driven by seemingly righteous intentions (I'm more of a Mr. C these days). Guess I was experiencing the show through Coop's eyes, somewhat. I was way into Audrey, and an eventual relationship was like, the greatest thing that was surely going to happen. Except that it didn't! And by the way I don't have anything against Annie, it's just that, it felt kind of tacked on and a bit rushed after a seemingly contradictory and befuddling break of trajectory with the Dale and Audrey arc, which itself had already developed at a rapid pace.

Afterthought: Coop falling in love with two different women in the span of two weeks, plus his affair with Earle's wife, is serious insight into a greatly flawed person that at first appears to be a knight in shining armor.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

Post by mtl »

love Richard TREmayne

"3" = past present future = coop coop richard

"main" = key = got a light?
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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TwinsPeak wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 7:55 am
Brad D wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 5:38 pm My primary issue with The Return (among many) was the legion of tertiary characters that pop in for a scene or two and disappear. Many of them were intriguing at first sight, but there turned out to be no arc, no journey, no nothing. Same with the glass box and Hastings. I have no issue with all the action lingering on out of town, but there was just no story to invest in for me. Mr. C was by far my favorite part of the show, and even he wasn’t honored with an end game.

Part 17 did me in, and I don’t think I was ready to consume pt 18 properly with that horrid taste in my mouth. Maybe, maybe it’s time to give that last part a separate chance... but then again I’m not sure I wish to see Coop and Diane do it again. There’s my unpopular opinion... lol
You mentioned not enjoying part 17, I personally quite like part 17. Instead of defending my popular opinion and trying to prove you wrong, I would like to know more about what you didn't like about episode 17? Was it the old footage? The storyline?

And I think you should try watching the entire Return again rather than just part 18. I think any re-watch whether just part 18 or all of season 3, will be enjoyed more than the 1st time watching.
I haven't seen 17 in almost 4 years, so I'll do my best. A-1, my favorite part of the Return was Mr. C, and when we got to 17, it felt like he had no real mission or objective, other than to show up to the Sheriff's and kill Truman. He did not need a portal to do that, and seems to have had the resources to do it for the prior 25 years.

I guess he was looking for Judy, right? A Gozer and Key-master thing? That whole deal was just kinda frustrating. Finally getting Cooper back, and then for him to not really do anything of consequence was pretty anticlimactic. BOB in a black orb did not work for me. Either re-cast Frank Silva, or make BOB into another being - but the green glove kid destroying BOB does not live in my TP canon. That whole montage just looked and felt cheap in the effects and the edit, as if Lynch simply had written something he couldn't technically pull off. Naido, one of the few women of color in TP, turning into a white woman also was a bad look for me. When I think of 17, and the journey to get there, The Return feels pretty hollow in substance. The emotion and the stakes feel pretty low in hindsight, because there was no story to do the actors justice. I suppose its all a meta message of "you can't go home," so I must ask, why even try? I realize that's a very broad stroke, but I did enjoy quite a few scenes and some of the characters along the way. But as a whole? Not for me. My love for TP is rooted in season one and the first half of s2 - all the characters matter, they all are served by the story. Each scene matters in the grand scheme, which is hardly anything I felt with the Return when I got to the end. One of these days I'll get around to a re-watch and maybe I'll feel differently.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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Brad D wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:07 am
TwinsPeak wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 7:55 am
Brad D wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 5:38 pm My primary issue with The Return (among many) was the legion of tertiary characters that pop in for a scene or two and disappear. Many of them were intriguing at first sight, but there turned out to be no arc, no journey, no nothing. Same with the glass box and Hastings. I have no issue with all the action lingering on out of town, but there was just no story to invest in for me. Mr. C was by far my favorite part of the show, and even he wasn’t honored with an end game.

Part 17 did me in, and I don’t think I was ready to consume pt 18 properly with that horrid taste in my mouth. Maybe, maybe it’s time to give that last part a separate chance... but then again I’m not sure I wish to see Coop and Diane do it again. There’s my unpopular opinion... lol
You mentioned not enjoying part 17, I personally quite like part 17. Instead of defending my popular opinion and trying to prove you wrong, I would like to know more about what you didn't like about episode 17? Was it the old footage? The storyline?

And I think you should try watching the entire Return again rather than just part 18. I think any re-watch whether just part 18 or all of season 3, will be enjoyed more than the 1st time watching.
I haven't seen 17 in almost 4 years, so I'll do my best. A-1, my favorite part of the Return was Mr. C, and when we got to 17, it felt like he had no real mission or objective, other than to show up to the Sheriff's and kill Truman. He did not need a portal to do that, and seems to have had the resources to do it for the prior 25 years.

I guess he was looking for Judy, right? A Gozer and Key-master thing? That whole deal was just kinda frustrating. Finally getting Cooper back, and then for him to not really do anything of consequence was pretty anticlimactic. BOB in a black orb did not work for me. Either re-cast Frank Silva, or make BOB into another being - but the green glove kid destroying BOB does not live in my TP canon. That whole montage just looked and felt cheap in the effects and the edit, as if Lynch simply had written something he couldn't technically pull off. Naido, one of the few women of color in TP, turning into a white woman also was a bad look for me. When I think of 17, and the journey to get there, The Return feels pretty hollow in substance. The emotion and the stakes feel pretty low in hindsight, because there was no story to do the actors justice. I suppose its all a meta message of "you can't go home," so I must ask, why even try? I realize that's a very broad stroke, but I did enjoy quite a few scenes and some of the characters along the way. But as a whole? Not for me. My love for TP is rooted in season one and the first half of s2 - all the characters matter, they all are served by the story. Each scene matters in the grand scheme, which is hardly anything I felt with the Return when I got to the end. One of these days I'll get around to a re-watch and maybe I'll feel differently.
It's definitely better/more palatable on a rewatch, but the issues you point out are relevant and a rewatch is unlikely to change your opinion on them. Good point about Naido, who if she really had to turn into another character, having her turn into Josie would have made more sense. Good point about Mr. C too.

And I especially like this:
I suppose its all a meta message of "you can't go home," so I must ask, why even try?
While I do like The Return (although I infinitely prefer the original series) and, with some grumblings aside, mostly accept it for what it is - I have to admit, this resonates with me. All its anti-nostalgia stuff and this can't go home message, the underusing original characters and locations, did make me wonder why call it Twin Peaks at all, why not just have it focus more on Good/Bad Coop. It feels like a combination of it's own FWWM spin-off movie (the Good vs. Bad Coops), a Twin Peaks continuation (in bits and pieces, almost like deleted scenes, ala The Missing Pieces), and an original variety/anthology series. I do appreciate it mostly for what it is, I really like some parts and think they're genius, but I have issues with other parts, and you make some great points here.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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I've often thought about how some of the imagery of The Return would have worked better for me with LESS context, like maybe a completely disconnected and disorienting edit, or a book of Lynch's paintings. Seeing Cooper in the room with American Woman, or Mr. C with Ray and his people at the SD diner, Dougie standing in the plaza, and BOB would have been free to roam, along with other characters played by actors we've lost. That would have put my imagination in a more enjoyable place with more profound questions to ponder, I think.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

Post by Mace »

I enjoy EVERY Windom Earle scene.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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Brad D wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:07 am I haven't seen 17 in almost 4 years, so I'll do my best. A-1, my favorite part of the Return was Mr. C, and when we got to 17, it felt like he had no real mission or objective, other than to show up to the Sheriff's and kill Truman. He did not need a portal to do that, and seems to have had the resources to do it for the prior 25 years.

I guess he was looking for Judy, right? A Gozer and Key-master thing? That whole deal was just kinda frustrating. Finally getting Cooper back, and then for him to not really do anything of consequence was pretty anticlimactic. BOB in a black orb did not work for me. Either re-cast Frank Silva, or make BOB into another being - but the green glove kid destroying BOB does not live in my TP canon. That whole montage just looked and felt cheap in the effects and the edit, as if Lynch simply had written something he couldn't technically pull off. Naido, one of the few women of color in TP, turning into a white woman also was a bad look for me. When I think of 17, and the journey to get there, The Return feels pretty hollow in substance. The emotion and the stakes feel pretty low in hindsight, because there was no story to do the actors justice. I suppose its all a meta message of "you can't go home," so I must ask, why even try? I realize that's a very broad stroke, but I did enjoy quite a few scenes and some of the characters along the way. But as a whole? Not for me. My love for TP is rooted in season one and the first half of s2 - all the characters matter, they all are served by the story. Each scene matters in the grand scheme, which is hardly anything I felt with the Return when I got to the end. One of these days I'll get around to a re-watch and maybe I'll feel differently.
I think you got this in your second paragraph, but for what it's worth I believe that Mr. C's search was strictly for Judy. The arrival through the portal to the Sheriff's Station was a matter of being deterred from his true destination, tricked and falling into a trap set by, apparently, Cooper, Briggs, and Fireman with the assistance of Diane and Cole, both of whom seem as confused as we do. Also, I see where you're coming from with Mr. C's arc, or lack thereof. It does seem like there's some big set-up planned that ends up underwhelming and frustrating to some degree, possibly deliberately. Recently we went into this in the Season 4 thread, but the way I see it (how I believe it works, or at least works for me) is that Mr. C spends his days looking for the exact thing -- those damned coordinates -- that lead to his downfall and damnation. I find that to be darkly humorous, as well as pretty rich and ironic, especially when considered as a mirror to Cooper's own single-minded journey to correct the sins of the past, which also arguably lands him in a very unexpected and discomfiting place, and further links the Mr. C and Cooper personas/traits as one and the same. I'll also say that there's the likely possibility that Part 17 is supposed to make you feel a certain hollowness, as though the journey to get there wasn't worth it, including the controversial and out-of-nowhere green glove kid. (While we both feel frustrated there and think about that frustration in different ways, where I disagree is that I actually love the aesthetics of that scene, and find it quite intense as well.)

While I believe that The Return is as deep and layered as it gets in its intertwined themes, even if we just look at it on the basis of the "you can't go home" meta-message, I still think that's deep and important enough to warrant the endeavor. But I like how you put it: why even try? I guess the answer would be because you can't help it! Lynch certainly used it to explore his own nostalgia (as evidenced especially in the BTS clips with Kyle and Laura Dern), but it also comments on the audience's desire, on the age of reboots, on the way the past shapes one's present, on memory and aging...and the list goes on and on until it's all intertwined and tying into other core themes. I just think the whole thing is very tight for being so meandering.

What I really find interesting is your last post, about how you've often thought how some of the imagery would have worked better with LESS context, in an even more disconnected and disorienting edit. That's a really interesting thought!
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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LateReg—you raise some very intriguing points! This makes me want to watch 17 again :lol

So you’re saying it was a trap, and I’ve never really dug deep enough to consider that. It would be interesting to chart both Lynch and Frost’s creative path with s3. They may have started the journey and realized all of TP really was stuck in the black lodge... you just never know. I doubt they’d ever reveal some of that magic, and it’s probably for the best.

Going home, getting the band back together, I must imagine there were some profound revelations along the way.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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Brad D wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:53 pm LateReg—you raise some very intriguing points! This makes me want to watch 17 again :lol

So you’re saying it was a trap, and I’ve never really dug deep enough to consider that. It would be interesting to chart both Lynch and Frost’s creative path with s3. They may have started the journey and realized all of TP really was stuck in the black lodge... you just never know. I doubt they’d ever reveal some of that magic, and it’s probably for the best.

Going home, getting the band back together, I must imagine there were some profound revelations along the way.
Absolutely. I always harp on this, but I think the Sunset Blvd. clip is really key to the whole thing, with Norma Desmond in deluded fashion talking about getting the old team back together (which of course is revealed to be impossible). Of course, in that same scene we have Cecil B. DeMille (a famous director playing himself) mentioning Gordon Cole (calling attention to both the Peaks practice of naming people after classic movie characters and of course to Lynch himself), and all of this leads directly to Cooper’s awakening. It’s just so layered, and really the whole show is summed up in that little scene—the futility of nostalgia, the metatext.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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Unpopular opinion — the first James and Evelyn scene is good! I definitely don’t hate that storyline. It’s almost the second coming of Invitation to Love, and it features some of Badalamenti’s best work in all of TP.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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Brad D wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:08 am Unpopular opinion — the first James and Evelyn scene is good! I definitely don’t hate that storyline. It’s almost the second coming of Invitation to Love, and it features some of Badalamenti’s best work in all of TP.
I love the scenes at Wallies! I also agree with what you say about the music; the "James & Evelyn (Trail Mix)" track from the archive might be my favourite piece of music included in it.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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hopesfall wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:19 am
Brad D wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:08 am Unpopular opinion — the first James and Evelyn scene is good! I definitely don’t hate that storyline. It’s almost the second coming of Invitation to Love, and it features some of Badalamenti’s best work in all of TP.
I love the scenes at Wallies! I also agree with what you say about the music; the "James & Evelyn (Trail Mix)" track from the archive might be my favourite piece of music included in it.
Ha, yeah. Honestly, I couldn't remember if that was the first scene or not, but it's the one that immediately sprang to mind so I guess I agree, too. I think that storyline just gets worse as it drags on, for me. It has its moments and I've seen many remark on the quality of the music, lately, so I'll have to look out for that aspect as a saving grace. (It's still the worst Twin Peaks storyline by a landslide, imo, but I enjoyed a few other suggestions in the worst storyline thread that got me thinking more about how much some of the other storylines betray the series, and may therefore be worse.)
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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My biggest unpopular opinion is that the latter half of season 1 is maybe the least interesting part of the show. For many people it’s the highlight of Twin Peaks, and its soapy, giddy tone certainly looms large in the cultural memory of the show. The high school sleuthing, mill intrigue and crime investigation are at their most pacy and purposeful, and I can see how in some ways it has the most “bingeable” quality of any stretch of episodes. For me however, the show is really at its best when it’s about Laura Palmer, reverberating trauma, and supernatural intrigue with a spiritual and psychological resonance. I’d take the potent grief of the first episodes, the equal parts uncanny and unwieldy quality of early season 2, and the surreal horror of the finale over the polished but more blandly functional quality which characterised the show at its most popular.

As for the post Laura Palmer episodes… well they are objectively the worst part of the show, but I find that this adds to their fascination. The sheer variety of bizarre choices mean that I am never bored, and any potential anger is offset by the fact that the finale and film managed to redeem and Indeed elevate the show to new heights.
Last edited by enumbs on Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

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I don't have anything to add but that I co-sign. An extremely tight, well-written, well-directed classic film can be the most boring thing in the world sometimes if it's not absolutely capital G great, and something obviously poorly done but with interesting faults can trump it in terms of a rewarding viewing experience.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
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Re: What is your Twin Peaks unpopular opinion?

Post by LateReg »

Thirded, in general. But also, in the sense that even if I don't find the latter half of Season 1 to be the weakest portion of the show (and it has some of my favorite moments, for sure, including Log Lady's cabin with the music playing and the stuff with Maddie by the Gazebo and Jacques in One Eyed Jacks), I do find it to be the most typically TV-like, as well-oiled as it is. I've said a few times that I find the first third of Season 2 to be the best stretch of the original series, even if I find that it lulls slightly.
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